Unknown mod that really works... anyone know what this PD TDI mod is called?

What is the mod known as, called, refered to as?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TDI-Diesel-Tuning-Box-PD-VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-FORD-38BHP_W0QQitemZ300246766497QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300246766497&_trkparms=72%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14.l1308

My one has an adjustable resistor, I have tested it with a multimeter and get a resistance of 152>253 - the higher the resistance the more power the engine makes. This is probably the best mod on my car, it causes no CEL lights and really helps 800-2000rpm flat spots... if I could choose any mod, digital box, proper remap or this I would choose this, it is the one that actually makes the car a better drive, not faster, just better, especially regarding the clutch/ gas pedal relationship.

I also have another one which is faulty, the resistor is never stable and changes between 150>450! With this device the car is super 'rough' but flys!!

Info I found on these devices:

"These devices are just a single resistor across the terminals on the fuel temperature transducer wires will cause the ECU to trip in the 'winter fuel settings'. The ECU sees the fuel as being at it's 'maximum cold' state, hence increases injector duration, changes timing etc to improve engine conditions for the fuel it expects is now much denser. If you trip that function you get more fuel from the injection system and more power. It works, but there are issues. The mod is not controllable in any way, the extra fuel is only issued at lower rpm – nothing over 3250 rpm."

Do these devices only work until 3250rpm?
Do they trip the cold fuel maps?
Can they be used with a remap?
I am using one with a remap no problems for 20k+.

Feedback appreciated!

its called a load of crap mod i think i think you'll be lucky to see a 5bhp gain let alone 38 i have a proper tunning box that cost over 300 uk pounds and i only have a 20bhp and even then i wouldnt buy one its just because it came with the car save up for a chip and injectors and do it properly if its seems like a get power quick scheme for a twenty quid then expect it to be more than allot pants
but if youve got it to work as well as a 300 pound tunning box then you cant argue with that for twenty quid

Cog... it works, its not better then a tuning box in terms of power (I have tested) but it is best bang for buck for sure!

I also prefer a good tuning box to a remap for every day driving too... I have tested many remaps.

Quote...
I also prefer a good tuning box to a remap for every day driving too... I have tested many remaps.

LOL.............which country do you live in!

Now is it Krout, or VWMikel who is going to come in and post the thread that I've seen them link to at least a half dozen times, where they actually buy one of these pieces of crap and open it up revealing a lot less than you'd expect/need to control the fuelling system on your 5+k engine...?

A tuning box gives a very nice power/ torque curve compared to a remap which are most often generic and designed for max bhp/ torque.

Yes I hope Krout or VWMikel give some feedback on this cheap mod... will be good to understand it beter!

Order of fuel curve mods:

1) Stock = WWI Fokker D.II

2) Add a resistor = WWI Fokker D.III

3) A Tuning Box = WWII Messerschmitt Bf 110 Zerstörer

4) An ECU Remap Tune = F22 Raptor

pietch said:

A tuning box gives a very nice power/ torque curve compared to a remap which are most often generic and designed for max bhp/ torque.

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Um....you've got that so very backwards my friend. All that most of those tuning boxes do is constantly trick the car to think it is operating in a different state (i.e. hot versus cold). If you actually tried some remaps before you came to this conclusion, you must have tried some completely garbage re-maps. Any capable tuner can blow a tuning box out of the water.

Please don't take my comments a bash on tuning noxes, they are a good option for some people. Don't you think that a few more people here would be running tuning boxes if they were truly better than re-maps?

I run a tuning box..............................................................yeah you heard right.






As a paper wait on my desk....lol

well at least that last comment hsa made me feel better anyway im putting in a set of pp520s and a kerma remamp to match them in favour of my tunning box although it does seem to work quite well but im quite happy if the chip and injectors are gona make a much stronger car

Back to the original post... can anyone explain the technical side behind this mod and answer some of my questions?

pietch said:

Back to the original post... can anyone explain the technical side behind this mod and answer some of my questions?

Click to expand...

The resistor tricks the system into adding more fuel by altering a signal.

I don't remember if it "hot wires" the injection pump or if it falsifies a signal to the ECU... and I could care less because it is something I would never do. If I couldn't get my first choice tuner to tune me, I would move to my second choice. I would find someone to tune me either in person or remotely before I did hardware mods to my car's engine management system. Hardware mods are a very crude substitute for the refined and precise results that a properly executed remap of the software will provide.

Go for a remap mate.I am saving money to remap mine 2.5 tdi.I have seen one with remaped engine and it was FAST.The owner said that before remap he had a CHIP (lol) from ebay for a 5 pounds and exept for a lot of smoke from exhaust it did not much more.He said the car was just a bit faster but no bang.

well i know the theory behind and i do know people who have had some response from it like you get when its a cold or damp day and i think thats the key to your problem it tricks it into the winter settings which ,basically will only ever give you good response and seemingly free reving as if its a cold day but it is at the cost of your fuel instead and has someone has already put would you trust your 5k engine in the hands of a 1960s volume control, theres no way to adjust the mod further to get a kick beyond 3000 rpm i dont think without using an ecu remap to change the fuel or boost settings

Don't get me wrong every mod has its place.....and why this mode first came about was because on a new model where no one/company has yet come out with even a tuning box for a new model you can fit this for a very cheap performance effect which is better than nothing..........but not nearly as good as some tuning boxes and definetly not as good as a remap or live tune.

See this thread for a detailed shot of the "complex inner workings"

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=187767&highlight=resistor

I still say that if you think that it is smoother than a remap you must have tried some VERY bad remaps...or your car was in a state of serious disrepair at the time. There is simply no way that a box like this can even remotely compare to a real full on tune.

mojogoes said:

I run a tuning box..............................................................yeah you heard right.






As a paper wait on my desk....lol

Click to expand...

that's not even good for a paperweight,
mine's used as a dustbin liner
lol

pietch said:

Back to the original post... can anyone explain the technical side behind this mod and answer some of my questions?

Click to expand...

Looking at the install picture in the Flea-Bay ad, it looks like it plugs into the coolant sensor.

Most likely it modifys the coolant temp signal so that the ECU schedules fuel for a coolant temp different than the actual coolant temp. I would guess it adjusted the coolant temp as seen by the ECU colder.

Would probably work the same as adjusting the choke on a carberated gas engine so that the choke is always slightly on.

I don't have much experience with tuning boxes and elected to go with the chip tune (fixed mapping). This is not condeming tuning but there are some disadvantages to tuning as compared to maps.

Tuning take one or two variables, usually a sensor and adjusts tha gain or offset of that sensor to place the ECU into a different "map" just like what happens when you change the map for normal sensor outputs. The problem is when the sensor or control runs up against its natural adjustment range but has run out of electrical adjustment due to the offset or gain change.

For example the temperature charateristic of the fuel may not be linear. That means that the change of a performance characteristic may jump at a particular temperature boundary but because of the tuning box the ECU thinks the temp is below that boundary and fails to move into the correct map.

Or fooling a sensor to think it is cold when its not. What happens when it does get cold? The "tuned" sensor can run into a lower limit where there is no more adjustment or worse case trips a fault condition. A good example here is the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor. Over boosted systems can cause the ECU to protect the engine when excessive boost is sensed. The fix is to cap the sensors output below the fault trip level but now you have lost the sensor's dynamic range.

If the owner of a tuning box is satisfied with end result and his system works over his environmental extremes then go for it. These systems are usually easier to install by the owner and can be removed easily.

A map system is always going to perform better if programmed correctly due to full utilization of all of the sensors dynamic ranges. Many more variables can be moved under various operating conditions than the tuning box is capable of getting to. However, if the tuning box connects to that sweet sensor output (like the MAF?) the result can move through multiple maps in the ECU just like a good chip tune. The difference is the chip tune will have the full dynamic range of sensors and not a squashed or expanded version as in tuning boxes.

ReferenceDesign said:

I don't have much experience with tuning boxes and elected to go with the chip tune (fixed mapping). This is not condeming tuning but there are some disadvantages to tuning as compared to maps.

Tuning take one or two variables, usually a sensor and adjusts tha gain or offset of that sensor to place the ECU into a different "map" just like what happens when you change the map for normal sensor outputs. The problem is when the sensor or control runs up against its natural adjustment range but has run out of electrical adjustment due to the offset or gain change.

For example the temperature charateristic of the fuel may not be linear. That means that the change of a performance characteristic may jump at a particular temperature boundary but because of the tuning box the ECU thinks the temp is below that boundary and fails to move into the correct map.

Or fooling a sensor to think it is cold when its not. What happens when it does get cold? The "tuned" sensor can run into a lower limit where there is no more adjustment or worse case trips a fault condition. A good example here is the MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor. Over boosted systems can cause the ECU to protect the engine when excessive boost is sensed. The fix is to cap the sensors output below the fault trip level but now you have lost the sensor's dynamic range.

If the owner of a tuning box is satisfied with end result and his system works over his environmental extremes then go for it. These systems are usually easier to install by the owner and can be removed easily.

A map system is always going to perform better if programmed correctly due to full utilization of all of the sensors dynamic ranges. Many more variables can be moved under various operating conditions than the tuning box is capable of getting to. However, if the tuning box connects to that sweet sensor output (like the MAF?) the result can move through multiple maps in the ECU just like a good chip tune. The difference is the chip tune will have the full dynamic range of sensors and not a squashed or expanded version as in tuning boxes.

Click to expand...

Well said!

This thing is plugged into the coolant temp sensor for PD engine, to make short: according to the map arrangement in the ECU, the map are only selected differently if you trick the temps sensor, selected sooner for some map, the gain is fictif at low throttle and mid, but at full throttle and higher rpm range these map are also selected without these box, just selected later.

There are also lots of important map for real good power that this box have no effect on it.

Not to confuse, It's different for the vp tdi.

pietch said:

Back to the original post... can anyone explain the technical side behind this mod and answer some of my questions?

Click to expand...

That's been done elsewhere in this thread.

But I've read in another thread that the best resistor to trick the coolant temp sensor is a 1900-ohm resistor. Radio Shack sells them for $0.99, and RS probably makes a good profit at that price. The eBay vendor discussed in the top post is selling his product for £22.99 -- his profit is considerably more.