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Old April 26th, 2020, 07:37   #46
rwthomas1
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Originally Posted by Steve Addy View Post
That's obviously a 'virtue signalling' author to declare that the tdi was one of the worst. I can think of a whole host of crap engines from the decade that would beat it hands down.

The complaint isn't due to the engine itself, it's due to the nanny statist view that cuz VW lied, that engine is bad...naughty VW. How about taking emissions standards away from bureaucrats who are doing nothing but pushing a particular agenda?

I get so tired of this BS.
Hear! Hear! The author is an idiot, and should be smacked upside the head with a 1/2 drive breaker bar.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 08:14   #47
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Obviously the author never had or researched a Ford 6.0 diesel.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 08:27   #48
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Obviously the author never had or researched a Ford 6.0 diesel.

Oh, the 6.0 is a quality engine compared to a 6.4. At least the 6.0 can be "bulletproofed". We have two 6.4's at work. One is blown, the other smoking and on its way, less than 75K on either. Dealer maintained. They are truly garbage. We are replacing them with gassers.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 14:28   #49
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Originally Posted by rwthomas1 View Post
Oh, the 6.0 is a quality engine compared to a 6.4. At least the 6.0 can be "bulletproofed". We have two 6.4's at work. One is blown, the other smoking and on its way, less than 75K on either. Dealer maintained. They are truly garbage. We are replacing them with gassers.
I feel your pain on the 6.4. From bad to worse. I will never buy another Ford. And the fool author thinks the TDIs are poor engines! I also went gasser, old school, for my truck.
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Old April 26th, 2020, 19:55   #50
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I feel your pain on the 6.4. From bad to worse. I will never buy another Ford. And the fool author thinks the TDIs are poor engines! I also went gasser, old school, for my truck.

I have no choice, Ford is the corporate approved supplier. So we are going to try the new 7.3 gasser. On paper it looks like a good engine. Thirsty. But I don't buy the gas....
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Old April 27th, 2020, 05:08   #51
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I did not think the 6.4L was all that troublesome, although I admit I have seen very few of them. Didn't they go away from the HEUI system to conventional commonrail?

I have not seen much of any issues with the 6.7L. Which is actually a Ford engine (the earlier Powerstroke V8s were all Navistar).

I know the 6.4L does have a DPF, that may be why the ones I know of have had no problems... they have been deleted. They sure run good, that's for sure. Pretty sure the one F550 long wheelbase stakebed truck that comes in here could beat many cars in a drag race, and I know for a fact my mildly modded ALH cannot hang with it (I tried) since I saw the guy that drives it moving onto the highway. And it had a load in the bed, too (HVAC company, with the big commercial stuff). But I know it is deleted, because it has some smell/smoke that it did not have before.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 05:32   #52
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Originally Posted by rwthomas1 View Post
I have no choice, Ford is the corporate approved supplier. So we are going to try the new 7.3 gasser. On paper it looks like a good engine. Thirsty. But I don't buy the gas....
here's to hoping
they can't possibly screw up a pushrod motor as badly as the arrangement of phasers and chains on the modulars
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Old April 27th, 2020, 05:58   #53
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The fuel economy of the new gasoline V8 actually does not look *too* terribly awful, considering what it is. The 10 speed slushbox probably helps. Far cry from the old gas V8s, that struggled to get even to double digits. And I am sure the purchase price is WAY cheaper than the current diesels.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 16:30   #54
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I did not think the 6.4L was all that troublesome, although I admit I have seen very few of them. Didn't they go away from the HEUI system to conventional commonrail?
I have not seen much of any issues with the 6.7L. Which is actually a Ford engine (the earlier Powerstroke V8s were all Navistar).
I know the 6.4L does have a DPF, that may be why the ones I know of have had no problems... they have been deleted. They sure run good, that's for sure. Pretty sure the one F550 long wheelbase stakebed truck that comes in here could beat many cars in a drag race, and I know for a fact my mildly modded ALH cannot hang with it (I tried) since I saw the guy that drives it moving onto the highway. And it had a load in the bed, too (HVAC company, with the big commercial stuff). But I know it is deleted, because it has some smell/smoke that it did not have before.
I work for a company that manages a utility for a NE city. The trucks are bone stock. The 6.4's are constantly in regen mode. They get idled, run hard, repeat, etc. The one that died has two holed pistons, damaged dpf, etc. I'm quite sure if the emissions crap was removed that they would run great. A reman with install was $18K+. Not financially worth it. The 6.7 seems much better, but for the cost of maintenance, and the relatively low miles we run, the gasser will be cheaper in the long run. The remaining 6.4 smokes like a mosquito abatement vehicle. Ford says this is normal?!
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Old April 27th, 2020, 17:46   #55
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Well, I just bought one of those godawful VW air-coolers today . 1600 cc I believe. Bolted into a tube chassis dune buggy. Going to drive it home tomorrow, fingers crossed (just a couple miles away). Living the dream!
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Old April 27th, 2020, 18:11   #56
[486]
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Originally Posted by rwthomas1 View Post
I work for a company that manages a utility for a NE city. The trucks are bone stock. The 6.4's are constantly in regen mode. They get idled, run hard, repeat, etc. The one that died has two holed pistons, damaged dpf, etc. I'm quite sure if the emissions crap was removed that they would run great. A reman with install was $18K+. Not financially worth it. The 6.7 seems much better, but for the cost of maintenance, and the relatively low miles we run, the gasser will be cheaper in the long run. The remaining 6.4 smokes like a mosquito abatement vehicle. Ford says this is normal?!
general best practice with an emissions diesel is to never idle it, and to run it as hard as possible in order to increase time between regens

even if it means shutting off for the two minutes it takes to make a delivery
turbochargers on these generally all have water cooling on them to deal with the regen temperatures, so that takes care of passive cooling when shut off (the main excuse for idling rather than shutting off other than starter wear)

ETA: notice the delivery trucks: they're all shut off when walking up to the house to drop off a box, it ain't about theft or fuel savings
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Old April 27th, 2020, 19:13   #57
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Originally Posted by [486] View Post
general best practice with an emissions diesel is to never idle it, and to run it as hard as possible in order to increase time between regens

even if it means shutting off for the two minutes it takes to make a delivery
turbochargers on these generally all have water cooling on them to deal with the regen temperatures, so that takes care of passive cooling when shut off (the main excuse for idling rather than shutting off other than starter wear)

ETA: notice the delivery trucks: they're all shut off when walking up to the house to drop off a box, it ain't about theft or fuel savings
Yep, I didn't buy them, someone else's idea. And you try telling road crews repairing a water main break, in subzero February temps, not to idle a truck. Heaters running, safety flashers going, inverters cranking..... Gassers are a better fit for sure.
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Old April 27th, 2020, 19:49   #58
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Yep, I didn't buy them, someone else's idea. And you try telling road crews repairing a water main break, in subzero February temps, not to idle a truck. Heaters running, safety flashers going, inverters cranking..... Gassers are a better fit for sure.
I've often thought a hybrid system would be pretty ideal for diesels in the winter, even if only to provide a way to load them down HARD into a resistive heater while idling
kind of like the coolant glow plugs on an ALH, but instead of a couple hundred watts, figure several kilowatts on a 2l engine, maybe 20kw+ on a 6 liter
The sort of power that you can't really extract from the serpentine belt.
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Old April 28th, 2020, 03:31   #59
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The vocational trucks DO have mitigation for this sort of thing, but they do not often get spec'd that way, or used that way, unfortunately.

There are different strategies. The most common is what I like to call a 'tactical idle', in which, after a predetermined amount of time, the idle speed automatically increases, and the active control systems' parameters change. There are also some setups that this can be done manually with a switch on the dash, and some that are linked to some external trigger, usually a PTO type input, for instance boom/bucket trucks. Some of those can even stop/start the engine automatically, as needed.

I know the ambulances we service do the tactical idle as soon as the parking brake is set (yeah, remember those? Lots of morons think with an automatic transmission you just jag it in Park and that's that. ). Once in this mode, the *can* idle indefinitely and not in theory do any harm to the engine or its emissions control systems. And if you stand next to one for a while, you will actually hear the turbo change pitch now and then as it moves its variable vanes and you will also be able to tell that the EGR/throttle plate are moving every so often. Basically, they are able to do things to keep the exhaust system from getting TOO cool.

These strategies of course are supposed to be dovetailed into PM requirements. So that the mileage/time may be overridden by engine run time instead. And ALL the engine manufacturers now have this information stored in the ECU, even if they are not all very good at alerting the operator with a required warning for service (service meaning PM, not service meaning "I AM BROKEN").

Unfortunately, for any of these things to work, everyone along the chain needs to be informed, and they rarely are. From the people that order the equipment, the people that sell them the equipment, the people that operate the equipment, and the people that service the equipment. Granted, this is only part of it. The actual ability of the manufacturer to offer the stuff that works reliably is key, too. And some have struggled with this. Navistar was sued by some EMT/locality for constant trouble with their MaxxForce engines (what the big DT466E evolved into).

Some of this is that the EPA has pushed too hard too quickly and the technology didn't have time to be thoroughly tested and researched, so the actual folks that purchase and operate them get caught with the task of beta testing and that is not right. But if you look at the drastic changes that happened very quickly, it is no wonder. No wonder that Dieselgate happened either.
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Old April 28th, 2020, 04:59   #60
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I probably use the high idle setting on my 7.3 more than any of the other settings. It doesn't have any of the problematic emissions stuff, but I was warned that they like to wet stack if idled for long periods in cold weather. I also think it warms up much faster and charges the batteries better at high idle. I wonder if there has been any trend back to big block gasser motors in ambulances and such that can't afford to have breakdowns and lots of downtime.
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