5 speed Tranny swap- final issues to resolve, no brake booster, and no speedo

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
So I finally got around to solving my starter issue from a week ago, and I was able to start the car and drive it around the block in limp mode. Currently I have the clutch switch bypassed, and I hope to resolve it in the future with the correct switch and wiring upgrade. The two big issues, Currently, I have no booster power to brakes and the speedometer isn’t working, the reverse lights work, so hey 1/3 connections work...

I put a new tandem pump in while the car was apart, so I need to verify that I hooked up all the hoses up correctly around the pump. The car is ideling good, so I’m pretty sure I have the fuel side of the pump working, but now I need to
Double check the vacuum hoseses to the brake booster.

The real booger to solve is the speedometer. I didn’t change anything on the speed sensor harness between the auto and manual trans. The manual trans that I received from Frans had no speed sensor installed , but came with a simple plug that I assumed was for shipping only. I removed the shipping plug, installed the speed sensor from the auto tranny into the FHN manual, installed the plug, and double checked that it was clipped in all the way. I pulled it apart after a short test drive and inspected the terminals and the plug and couldn’t figure out anything amiss.

Can anyone else think of something else I could have disrupted that would cause the speedo to not work? Odometer isnt working either, so I doubt it’s the cluster. The Ecu tranny omit was done by Malone, and I’m pretty sure that’s not likely the issue. Tomorrow I’ll try to hook the car up to a my old laptop that can run my old serial port vagcom and see if that gives me any indications, but I’m trying to think of other things I could have flubbed while the tranny was out.

Thanks in advance!
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
IIRC, there were some 5speeds where the diff did not have the reluctor wheel installed for the speed sensor to read - those units used one of the ABS sensors for the speedo.

There was a thread in here somewhere...
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
IIRC, there were some 5speeds where the diff did not have the reluctor wheel installed for the speed sensor to read - those units used one of the ABS sensors for the speedo.

There was a thread in here somewhere...
GGB iirc but dont hold me to it.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Tried looking - couldn't find - if the car were mine, I would remove the speed sensor and have a look in the hole to see if there is a reluctor wheel there - look for gaps as the shaft is rotated.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Tried looking - couldn't find - if the car were mine, I would remove the speed sensor and have a look in the hole to see if there is a reluctor wheel there - look for gaps as the shaft is rotated.

I believe vwzips made a comment about this (which is why the GGB came to mind) so hopefully he will chime in and maybe have some advice on this.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
... if the wheel visible in the hole has gaps, then you are good - just need to find the right sensor.

Next would be to measure the depth to the reluctor teeth, and then measure the depth of the sensor. There should be no more than a mm difference between the sensor depth and the hole depth.

Also, measure the resistance on the sensor to make sure that the windings are not open.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Interesting...

Replacing a solid state hall-effect or induction sensor with a moving reed switch...

Seems a really dumb, wear-prone design.

Although if the OPs ring is missing, it would be simple (relatively) to get the diff out the side of the transmission and press the plastic-magnet-ring on, then reinstall.
 

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
I heard back from Frans, and he said that he doesn’t know of any Passats that don’t run the speedo from anything but the gear box. The speedo worked in the auto, so I’m not really sure. I’ll pull the sensor, look down the hole with a mirrior and see if I can tell anything. I’ll probably just buy an new sensor and replace it, but it would be interesting to confirm that the manual speedo sensor and the auto sensor are the same part number. Without taking the tranny back out of the car, I don’t really have a way of accurately measuring the gap between the wheel and sensor stem.
 

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
Well what do you know...I'm the lucky winner. I got a transmission all the way from Europe, and the car sits idle for more then a year, I finally get my act together and get the transmission in the car, I get the Computer stuff done with Malone and everything is working except the speedo, so a whole bunch of idiot lights are keeping me from passing smog. I emailed Frans, and he didn't know about any of the trannys not having a VSS disc installed. We'll I'm 99% sure that I'm one of the lucky ones who got a transmission that doesn't have one installed.

Last night I was excited to discover that I could get to the Speedo sensor from the top of the engine without having to get at it from under the car. I moved the coolant reservoir aside without having to empty it, I set my Volt meter to "ring" plugged the volt meter probes into the two ports on the back of the sensor and spun the wheel. Sadly, No noise, no ring.





I pulled the sensor, and couldn't see anything inside the open port except for clean fluid.



I pulled the sensor, looked it over carefully and then decided to test it in the dead GMR autobox sitting on the side of the garage. I setup the voltmeter, and it rings four times per revolution. :mad: (so sad and mad)



So at least I now know my path forward... a couple of questions for the gurus of this group:

1. Can I pull the diff cover through the wheel well without taking the transmission out of the car? I really don't want to pull the tranny again. At this point, I'm so burned out on working on this, that I'm almost ready to just sell her out of emotional tiredness.

2. Does anyone have the proper part number for this part? Its an FHN 5 speed.

Does anyone have a good link or write up they can point me to? As always, thanks for the all the help..
I'm really sad I didn't know to look for this before I put the tranny in the car.



This sort of job would have been super easy if the transmission was sitting like this when I figured out that I needed to check for a speedo VSS disc. Hopefully others in the future will learn from my suffering....
 
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rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
Well, this never ending swap from Hell continues :mad:
Frans sent me the missing VSS disc that needs to go in the transmission, but

I’m stuck trying to get the transmission output shaft off.



Frans mentioned using a slide hammer to pull it out of the transmission, with the tranny still in the car. I tried to fit a slide hammer in the spot, but couldn’t get it figured out. Have others successfully pulled the right side axle flange out of the tranny with the tranny in the car?



I can go try to find a smaller slide hammer (not as long) but I can’t seem to find any info on how much force to put into the flange to break it free. I guess I might be able to make it work if I pull the full wheel perch out of the car but if I don’t have to do that extra work that would be nice. Once the flange is off, how do I put it back on? Do I need a press? As a secondary test, I pulled the torx bolts out of the diff cover, but still could get the axel flange to release from the tranny. Any suggestions?

Anyone want an almost finished passat? I’m getting super tired of working on this car and I’m starting to feel like it’s not worth all the time I’ve been putting into this swap.

 
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DeliveryValve

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
Location
Western US
TDI
Passat GLS Wagon
Sorry you are going through all those issues.

Are you talking about the axle flange?

Here is video on one technique to remove it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ta4EEOyzKw

The flange seems to have the same type of clip the CV joint uses on the axle. It just clips in and to remove it, you hammer it out. A slide hammer should work also. But try the method on the video first.
 

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
Delivery Valve, thanks for the link. I ended up working on her for more than 12 hours today, and I finally have some progress, but I'm still super frustrated that despite all the reading I've done of others doing this swap, I never once heard of anyone else with this issue of not getting the sensor in the transmission.

As another good thing, I figured out how to edit my previous posts and reduce the size of the pictures. The previous pics where HUGE and were making it hard to follow this thread because the oversized pictures were making it hard to view. I also figured out why my previous posts pictures weren't posting correctly so that was good. Hosting the pics on my google drive is tricky. A note for future folks, you need to right click on the image you want to share and click "copy Image address". If you use the "create a link" function within google photos, it won't display once inserted into these threads.

Back to the car, I pulled the driver side wheel and axle. I really didn't want to pull the transmission again as its a real booger to bench press it in and get it lined up and hung. So I went back to the slide hammer route, I detached the lower A arm pivot pins where they attached to the sub frame. To get the pins out, I lowered the back of the subframe about an inch in order to gain clearance on the aft lower A-arm hinge bolt.



I then tied the wheel perch out of the way


With the wheel perch out of the way, I was able to get better access to the axle flange and using a 5 lbs slide hammer, the flange came out with 4 moderate slides.






Here is a few more shots of the parts after they came out:




I was hoping that the installation of the reluctor disc would be obvious, but the differential housing that the disc fits over only has one flat in the OD shaft where I assume the disc sits. It seems line the shaft should have two flats, one for each clip... The reluctor disc however has two brass clips that look like they should be latching on something, but it doesn't seem like there is any obvious features for the springs to clip into. It also wasn't obvious which way the disc gets installed. Any input or pictures would be great help!

Should I install it this way?


Or should I put it in this way?



Can anyone confirm if I even have the right part? Earlier in this thread, soeme of the previous comments talked about a disc that had lots of "teeth". Since this transmission didn't have the part installed, I don't have a "good example" of the installation to imitate.

Thanks in advance. One other follow up for others who might someday come across this, I spent 10 hours on this today, about 5 of them was trying to figure out how to fit the slide hammer in the axle hole without crashing into the wheel perch. knowing what I know now, it would have probably been about the same amount of time to pull the transmission again...doh!
 
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rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
Quick TD,

Thanks for the response and the links to the picture. The shaft in the differential that the reluctor wheel slips on, has only one "flat" but the reluctor wheel has two spung brass clips.

There is also a machined groove in the shaft that looks like the reluctor clips would clip into.

Is there any special orientation to install the reluctor disc onto the shaft?

The Youtube video that you sent that describes using a long bolt to drive the axle flange out definitely looks like it would be less work, hopefully someone in the future will benefit from this discussion.

Thanks!
 

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
I got the car back together tonight. I installed the reluctor ring with the spring clips 90° out from the notch and pushed it on until the springs clicked into the grove on the shaft. After getting all the parts back on I took her for a drive. I'm super excited to have her all back and working. I still have four idiot lights to resolve, but I think I have all the answers and just need to get all the cruise control and brake wiring under the dash correct. I think the one thing I wish I had known before I installed the transmission, is I wish I new to double check to see if there was a reluctor wheel installed in the transmission I recieved. Frans hooked me up by sending me the missing part, but it would have been alot less work to have installed it while the tranny was out of the car. For anyone who gets a 5 speed to make the swap in the future, just know, that if there is a "plug" vs a VSS sensor in the speedometer sensor spot, I would guess there is no reluctor wheel installed. That was my experience anyway.
 

rocketboy52

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
Tehachapi CA
TDI
2004 Passat TDI
Alright Fellow Passat Folks... everything is done except for electrical stuff.
First issue is to make the cruise control work, I don't think the clutch switch I collected from the V6 gasser is the right switch for this install. I read in one of the earlier swaps that this switch could be "adjusted" but no matter how I mount or twist, it, I can't seem to get it to sit at the right distance from the un-pressed pedal. See the short Youtube video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qm_bs3-Fm8

I'm also looking to identify the Pig tails and plugs for the two clutch switches.



I found this part number for the Switch plug, 6N0 972 704

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/housing/6n0972704/

But I'm looking for the pins or wired leads that fit this plug and the other one that reads when the clutch is pressed in. (see above picture)

Anyone have those numbers handy? Its a half a day trip to go to the closest pick 'n pull, and I'd rather just order something and wait for it to show up in my mail box! Getting spoiled by all this internet shopping.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I can vouch the v6 plugs/sendors do work. My 5 speed BHW is using all the components out of a 1999 v6. Cruise and everything work Just fine.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
I may have reused the v6 bracket now that you mention it. Fuzzy memory from 7-8 months ago.
 
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