clutch not disengaging

I have a 2003 vw jetta tdi 5 speed that has an issue with the clutch not disengaging. The clutch pedal action doesn't feel like it has consistent resistance through its travel. Not enough resistance through the first half.

What has been done so far:
- new slave cylinder (FTE)
- new master cylinder (Meyle)
- system bled (Valvoline synthetic dot 3&4)
- new clutch kit (Sachs)
- transmission fluid changed (redline mtl)

Single mass flywheel was installed by previous owner and looks good. Also the clutch fork is not bent and looks good at the pivot ball.

Is there anything else I should check?

I would think that it's either the fork, or air in the system.
You said it was bled, however, I often see people with issues bleeding all the air out.

Given what you have already done, it sounds like the throwout bearing catching on the input shaft sleeve.

http://www.idparts.com/transmission-input-shaft-sleeve-seal-a3b4a4-p-2467.html

Might want to check the pressure plate. There is a wire ring on either side of the finger springs that acts as a spring pivot that can break and you lose the disengagement geometry.

Was the master cylinder bled seperately from the slave cylinder?

Could air get back in the system from changing the clutch? (That's the last thing I've done.)

The master cylinder was not bled separately.

When I replaced the throw out bearing, it seemed to slide without restriction.

Appreciate the ideas. I'll probably check if the system's bled next.


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Yeah, if it feels inconsistent through the travel I'll bet that you need to bleed the clutch hydraulics. That happens quite often to me when doing a clutch change and the slave piston fully extends.
Don't let the fluid in the brake reservoir get below the level of the clutch master feed line. Pump the clutch pedal slowly full stroke by hand while bleeding.
Are you using a pressure bleeder?

JETaah said:

Yeah, if it feels inconsistent through the travel I'll bet that you need to bleed the clutch hydraulics. That happens quite often to me when doing a clutch change and the slave piston fully extends.
Don't let the fluid in the brake reservoir get below the level of the clutch master feed line. Pump the clutch pedal slowly full stroke by hand while bleeding.
Are you using a pressure bleeder?

Click to expand...

Good to know.

No, I don't have a pressure bleeder. I thought I'd try vacuum bleeding, and if that doesn't work...maybe getting a pressure bleeder?

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Looks like the vacuum bleeder didn't get all the air out. If there is air trapped in the master cylinder, would a pressure bleeder push that bubble out okay? That might be better than taking it off to bench bleed it.

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Update:

After bleeding the system sufficiently (I thought), I took it to an independent shop that mostly works on vw's. He bled the system again and was satisfied that there was bled properly. He thinks the issue may be the pedal mechanism itself. He removed the pedal stop and got the clutch to disengage a couple of times before reverting to how it was. Has anyone had an issue with the pedal mechanism itself? Any ideas on what to look for?

I had an elusive clutch disengagement problem on a toyota pickup that turned out to be a cracked pedal assembly bracket that was flexing instead of pushing the piston in the master. Not sure if something similar could happen on the vw.

turbobrick240 said:

I had an elusive clutch disengagement problem on a toyota pickup that turned out to be a cracked pedal assembly bracket that was flexing instead of pushing the piston in the master. Not sure if something similar could happen on the vw.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll look into that.

Jetaah mentioned the pressure plate, if it's a South bend clutch kit i can say i had the same exact failure where the retaining ring broke and it's nearly impossible to spot it unless you know where to look as it does not look out of place whatsoever. Highly unlikely there is something wrong with the pedal mechanism

Victor Huge said:

Jetaah mentioned the pressure plate, if it's a South bend clutch kit i can say i had the same exact failure where the retaining ring broke and it's nearly impossible to spot it unless you know where to look as it does not look out of place whatsoever. Highly unlikely there is something wrong with the pedal mechanism

Click to expand...

Hopefully it's not that, since I replaced the pressure plate and clutch disc since I've had this issue.

Issue is still not fixed. Now the mechanic thinks it might be the flywheel (the one thing I haven't replaced yet). I'm a little skeptical, since this issue happened suddenly and the flywheel looked good when I did the clutch...but not sure what else it could be.

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diagnosis: you need a new mechanic, sounds like he's just going down the list rather than using logic

Victor Huge said:

Jetaah mentioned the pressure plate, if it's a South bend clutch kit i can say i had the same exact failure where the retaining ring broke and it's nearly impossible to spot it unless you know where to look as it does not look out of place whatsoever. Highly unlikely there is something wrong with the pedal mechanism

Click to expand...

This happened to me as well. ~20k on the clutch kit I'd figure and the pressure plate ring snapped. I went back to dual mass flywheel. I could not disengage gear, AAA got the girl home.

Just a thought....
You said that the flywheel looked OK and it was reused.

If this happened to be a Valeo flywheel being used with Sachs clutch/PP then there in could be the problem.
The Valeo has a shallower step between where the pressure plate mount and the friction surface...Almost .060 that I can measure on the one that I have here.
That would mean that the pressure plate is sandwiching the clutch plate by that much more. That would throw off the geometry in a direction making it harder to disengage.

The Valeo flywheel that I have here has the "Valeo" cast into the inner diameter on the friction side.
Might at least want to check that.

jimbote said:

diagnosis: you need a new mechanic, sounds like he's just going down the list rather than using logic

Click to expand...

You might be right, but for most of the things that have been replaced (see first post) the mechanic was me. Ha ha.

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JETaah said:

Just a thought....
You said that the flywheel looked OK and it was reused.

If this happened to be a Valeo flywheel being used with Sachs clutch/PP then there in could be the problem.
The Valeo has a shallower step between where the pressure plate mount and the friction surface...Almost .060 that I can measure on the one that I have here.
That would mean that the pressure plate is sandwiching the clutch plate by that much more. That would throw off the geometry in a direction making it harder to disengage.

The Valeo flywheel that I have here has the "Valeo" cast into the inner diameter on the friction side.
Might at least want to check that.

Click to expand...

I had a south bend kit in it when this issue started. Do they use the Valeo flywheel?

I was pleasantly surprised at how thick the south bend clutch disc looked after about 120, 000 miles. It was almost as thick as the new one I put on. The reason I changed it was because I thought maybe I was having the same pressure plate issue that some have had with the broken spring.

In other news, lines seem to be bled out. Also the clutch is disengaging better after removing the clutch stop. But, again, the pedal action does not feel normal.

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I think that it's either the fork that pushes is bent, or the bleeding issue.
However, I'm curious if it's a dualmass, or single, flywheel.

eddieleephd said:

I think that it's either the fork that pushes is bent, or the bleeding issue.
However, I'm curious if it's a dualmass, or single, flywheel.

Click to expand...

The fork doesn't seem to be bent, and while I had trouble bleeding it initially, the mechanic I took it to made sure it was after he had it.

It has a single mass flywheel on it that the previous owner had installed with his south bend kit.

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I don't like the idea of removing the pedal stop. The master cylinder is not designed to act as a pedal stop. It works within the range of the pedal up and down stops.

If you use your fingertips and push on the pedal to "read it" spongy at top is almost always air.

Air goes up and getting it to go down can be a challenge.

2 sugestions.

Remove the slave cylinder from trans, do not open bleed screw or remove hose. Compress slave cyl push rod into cyl fully and try to watch for any air bubbles to show up in reservoir. Repeat several cycles.

Open bleed screw bleeding. doesn't sound right but can really do the job. Steps: Pedal up. Open bleed screw. Smoothly push pedal to floor. Close bleed screw. Lift pedal. Repeat several times, maybe 6-8 cycles.

You don't need pressure to flush an air bubble out. This technique is like putting a marshmallow in a PVC pipe, and another until they come out the end.

Any air bubble will mess a clutch up, big time.

Good luck.

To get a sense of the PP/release lever geometry, remove the clutch slave and push the lever inward with your finger. Measure how far in from the slave mounting surface it goes to make the throw out bearing hit the finger springs.

On average, I have found that with new components (flywheel/clutch disc/PP/ball pin/TO bearing fork) distance is about 1" give or take a little. This can vary of course and the master and slave can compensate for that to a degree.
See where your winds up. If it is a lot different then I would think that there is a faulty or mismatched component inside the bell housing.

Thanks for the suggestions. I have the car back now, so when I have time I'll look into that.

Earlier when I thought the clutch fork could be bent, I did the measurement as jetaah suggested. It measured 3/4", which seemed normal.


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