Is my Jetta TDI dead?

I have a 2000 VW jetta 1.9 tdi. it has 230,000 miles on the engine. It has been a daily driver for 5 years or so and I love the vehicle. I went to the bank a couple of weeks ago and when I got back in my car it tried to start normally but being a diesel it sometimes doesn't start on the first try. I turned the key for a second time and the engine would barely turn over.

Couple of knowns:

1. the timing belt is not broken.
2. the starter is not stuck in the flywheel. I removed it and have tested it by connecting it to a battery and triggering it with a jumper. Seems to work fine.
3. I took the timing belt off to see if things turned freely and I can't turn the cam shaft at all?
4. I haven't pulled injectors to see if the cylinders are full of coolant but that is next on the list.

Any thoughts on what it could be or is it time to find a new old TDI?

Thanks,
Lou

Unlikely you encountered any major damage w/o any significant audible warning.

Don't treat diesels like they should be tough starters. This kind of thinking allows problems to fester (and might have culminated in what you're now experiencing).

You took the timing belt off (not the serpentine belt)? If so, trying to turn the cam without also turning the crank (they have to me, ahem, timed together!) ain't going to work (or do so over anything other than a very short amount of rotation)*. If you suspect a cam lockup then I'd pull the valve cover and inspect the cam and followers. I don't, however, believe that this happened as you note no major event (usually folks will note some loud bang or such).

* And do NOT try and rotate the cam via the cam bolt. Only use the crank bolt.

If the engine barely turns over it may be due to a weak or failing battery. The engine needs a minimum RPM from the starter to actually allow it to start up. If the battery cannot provide this you will not be able to start the motor.

I am not sure I am understanding your third item. You took the timing belt off and wanted to rotate the camshaft by hand? Did you remove the cam sprocket? You run the risk of having it misaligned to the crankshaft now. Do you have the tools to properly index them?

You could have just taken off the timing belt cover and had someone start the car to see it moves. If the timing belt was not broken then it's not a factor in your non-starting motor. It's going to be hard to rotate the camshaft with your hands for the most part.

I think you need to read the no start thread and follow the troubleshooting steps. The only symptom you said you have is a slow turning engine that won't start. Nothing indicates catastrophic failure so item #4 is way down the list of possibilities. However, you took off the timing belt and that means the injection pump is possibly going to be misaligned unless you know what you are doing.

You're gonna have to put the TB back on correctly before you can find out what's wrong.

Did I read that right? You took the timing belt off? There are two belts on that engine one you can see when you open the hood, that's the serpentine belt. The other you have to remove the upper plastic and two lower metal cover to take it completely off. That's the timing belt it has teeth on the lower side, the serpentine belt does not, it has grooves.

If you took the serpentine belt off, no big deal just reinstall when you're ready. If you took the other belt, the timing belt off then stop where you are DO NOT under any circumstances crank the engine with the starter, you will bend valves and maybe piston rods.

If you removed the timing belt, you need to get this car to someone who knows about these engines. To reinstall that belt requires a couple of special tools and it has to be Exactly in time. What made you look in this direction anyway. Sounds like a dead or dying battery to me.

clean and regrease the starter planetary gears

So here is the rest of the story. The garage that I brought the car to took the top end of the timing belt off and I told them to stop. I trailered the car to my driveway to figure this out. this is where I pulled the starter. I know I have to realign everything at this point and if I can figure out what went wrong I will gladly do that.

The injector pump turns freely.
Cam sprocket barely turns at all.
I cant reach the crank without taking more parts off.
The battery is good. I have taken the one out of my son's dodge cummins diesel truck, used booster cables and a booster pack. Still super slow turning.

It wont be long and I will be over my head but I am in it now.

I am going to pull the head off today and see what I find for surprises.

Lbushey123@gmail.com said:

So here is the rest of the story. The garage that I brought the car to took the top end of the timing belt off and I told them to stop. I trailered the car to my driveway to figure this out. this is where I pulled the starter. I know I have to realign everything at this point and if I can figure out what went wrong I will gladly do that.

The injector pump turns freely.
Cam sprocket barely turns at all.
I cant reach the crank without taking more parts off.
The battery is good. I have taken the one out of my son's dodge cummins diesel truck, used booster cables and a booster pack. Still super slow turning.

It wont be long and I will be over my head but I am in it now.

I am going to pull the head off today and see what I find for surprises.

Click to expand...

There is no indication you have had a catastrophic failure of the timing belt system so I would put it back together and move your focus on reasons for the no start much higher on the list. Refer to the NoStart thread posted at the top of this forum.

Part of that process to align the crank/cam/IP requires you to manually rotate the crankshaft a few times so you will know if there is an interference problem of valves and pistons. You should have the valve cover off to do this so you should also inspect the lifters for cracks while you are there. Again, I see nothing you have mentioned so far to indicate an issue with this so your focus should be back on the no start troubleshooting list.

The approach by the shop seems very unusual based on what you have told us. I feel you haven't told us everything you have told them to get them to think their need to remove the timing belt was warranted. I don't even understand what they were going to figure out by removing the timing belt. Either that, or they are just clueless.

You may have a starter going bad. You can remove the glow plugs to release the compression while starting. Be sure to disconnect the IP so it doesn't actually try to start up. If it turns over faster then it may be just a new starter needed.

WOW this is going south fast!

If you have the timing belt off and you try to turn the cam at least one valve will hit a piston. That's why your cam barely turns. Put the belt back on correctly and then diagnose the no start.

What he said.but if you tried to crank it with the starter with the timing belt off the head will need to come off.

You need to have a good idea about how your engine mechanicals work.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/mk4-vw-jetta-tdi-golf-new-beetle-diy-index/

You can not just slap the T/B back on and be good to go. If you do not follow the procedure to the letter for correctly timing the cam to the crank, you will cause severe damage. Look in the T/B replacement DYI article.

If you want to see if the cam turns freely, remove the T/B with the crank at 90 degrees before TDC. The piston will all be half way down their bores and well out of the way of being hit by the valves.

Great job on getting your car away from those clowns before they destroyed you engine.