RC 2 chip 5th gear shudder

50harleyrider

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
Has anyone figured this out? Mine is really annoying now when running in 5th under slight load between 1500-2000 rpm. I can't even drive it below 65 now without the car really shuddering hard. My PP520 car is the worst. IQ set between 3.0 and 6.0 in .1 increments and no help. Injection timing is at 60. Haven't heard anything from Jeff Robertson either. Sure don't want to ditch the .623 gears yet but.... Any suggestions on some logs to perform at the shudder conditions? The thing that really bugs me is it didn't do this last winter. Turbo boost is fine too. I can do the same conditions in 4th and no shudder. I guess it's time to disable the VSS sensor and switch it on with a toggle when I need cruise control.
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
Definitely the stock SMF. I'm gonna do some logs on MAF,boost and anything else I can think of before I disable the VSS. Hopefully it's something as simple as boost and maybe a wastegate adjustment. As hard as it's shaking ,VAG will hopefully give me a hint.
 

CharlieT

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Location
Houston, Tx
TDI
Audi TTqTDI, B4V, B5.5V, '12 NMS SEL
I am not sure if it helps, but I will share what I know.

My B4V was stock, ran fine.
I added RC3 and P520; worked fine
I added a 0.658 5th gear and a shudder appeared.
Swapped in new, balanced PP520s; shudder remained

Then last january I fitted a VNT 17 and got new tune from Jeff based on AFN/vnt tune. Shudder went away completely. I cannot get it to shudder at all.

It is linked to VSS somehow, but I don't know what exactly.
Unplugging VSS fixed mine, but that is not a good solution.
My best guess is it is something in the closed loop control in the 1z tune in the ECU; the common factor seems to be different 5th gears, I wonder if there is something in the tune that is using VSS info for PID control ?? and the with the new 5th gear the VSS speed data does not match expected rpm correctly.

Hope this helps...
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
I'm sure that's getting close but I'm not ready to upgrade to a VNT-17/22 especially since I just bought a new GT-15 and my power is great! BTW,I didn't have this with .681 or .658. Can you get Jeff to respond to this? I haven't had any luck. I guess I'll have to use the toggle switch when I want CC. Hopefully disabling the VSS won't have any other impact.
 

jstn

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
norton, ma
TDI
gone to the dark side :)
i've got a .681 5th in mine but regardless, i have shudder in every gear with rc3+ (most noticeable in 4th and 5th). i basically have to keep the boost up (accelerate) to prevent it from happening. i've tried with the maf and without, same problem.

i've kind of given up and am going a different direction. :rolleyes:

currently:

- pp520s
- ported head
- colt cam
- luk dmf w/sbc stage 1
- lift pump

justin
 

50harleyrider

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
i've got a .681 5th in mine but regardless, i have shudder in every gear with rc3+ (most noticeable in 4th and 5th). i basically have to keep the boost up (accelerate) to prevent it from happening. i've tried with the maf and without, same problem.

i've kind of given up and am going a different direction. :rolleyes:

currently:

- pp520s
- ported head
- colt cam
- luk dmf w/sbc stage 1
- lift pump

justin
My shudder has essentially stopped. It's still there when I lug it down below 1800 in 5th but with the .622 gears, one would expect that. I suspected the winter fuel blend was most of my problem. Your mods are probably your problem. Maybe you should send your ECU to Jeff and have the RC2 tune installed but consult with him (call him don't try to email) first about your mods. I assume your running a stock turbo.
 

jstn

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2009
Location
norton, ma
TDI
gone to the dark side :)
My shudder has essentially stopped. It's still there when I lug it down below 1800 in 5th but with the .622 gears, one would expect that. I suspected the winter fuel blend was most of my problem. Your mods are probably your problem. Maybe you should send your ECU to Jeff and have the RC2 tune installed but consult with him (call him don't try to email) first about your mods. I assume your running a stock turbo.
he (re)tuned the car in person at a dyno day about 18 months back. it's always run this way, even before the mods and runs the same in other cars (stock and tuned) that i've tried it in. so it's tough to say that it's entirely due to the mods, but i'm sure they could complicate things.

justin
 

50harleyrider

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Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
That's interesting. Did the ECU do that before Jeff chipped it? If so, I'd be looking for another good stock 16 bit ECU and try the chips in it. Sounds like Jeff needs to have it on the bench at his shop. He warned me about a bunch of bad ECUs floating arround too that he couldn't do much with when customers sent them to him and they keep getting sold to unsuspecting folks. Good luck with that.
 

greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
unplug the speed sensor on the top of the transmission and see if it goes away. You won't have speedo for this test.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I never allow my engine to run like that. If I were going that slow, I'd just have it in 4th gear.

My A3 had some strange shudders like that though, I actually had to change the IQ setting various times throughout the year depending on ambient temps.

But if it were me, I'd speed up, or downshift. Modded TDIs don't like it below 2000 RPMs (even the ones that run OK there, not the best thing for the turbocharger).
 

G60ING

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Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
That's the problem with too much of a gear spread. Get a 6spd year kit and then gearing will be perfect.
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
There are obvious free solutions:
-remove the gear set and go stock
-the rocket chips and go stock
-drive faster in 5th
- drive in 4th


Other option I remember somebody mentioning about a low speed shudder was to disable the ecu VSS signal wire but I don't know if it would work here. Plus it kills CC.
 

50harleyrider

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Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Location
charleston,wv
TDI
2005 B5.5 TDI/geared BSM, BV43A turbo,stage 2 TDTUNING. 2005 5sp manual passat tdi stage 2 tdtuning,BSM delete. 2015 Passat TDI 6sp manual.
Don't think .622 gear set has anything to fo with the problem. I ran .622 just overa year, now running .588 gear on 6speed conversion. Still no shudder. It is not the long gear.
It's not the tall gear causing the problem, it's the operator turning that tall gear too slowly. I agree these engines don't much like it below 2000 when modded. Both of my B4s have identical mods and gears and both will shudder and shake below 1800-2000. Everything has it's cost.
 
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TonyJetta

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Sep 15, 2005
Location
Tucson, Az
TDI
'15 Jetta TDI SE / '06 Jetta TDI DSG Pkg0 / '96 Passat TDI
You could also try a Malone tune. I haven't had any issues with mine: ~13k miles.

Tony
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Play with the IQ like Oilhammer suggested. I used to have this problem on the B4, but don't any longer :)
 

goose737700

Active member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Location
arizona
TDI
2013 tdi golf DSG. 1995 EVC AHU Tdi, Dsla 1019 injectors, Vnt15.
Good thread, I also have this problem. my EuroVan is running a ahu motor with 1019 injectors a vnt 15 turbo and 10mm pump. the shudder seems to be temperature dependent and is in higher gears and between 1800-2300 rpm. I pulled the injectors once and reseated them that seemed to make it smooth out but slowly it has returned. the tune is a modified AFN with a egr delete. I plan on upgrading the turbo to a vnt17 in the fall/winter coming.
 

iluvmydiesels

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
not really knowledgeable on this, but there is a post on the same, first page. there it is suggested the (right) turbo, and possibly vnt may make this go away. gl.
 

wyopel

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
In a previous thread about this issue, it was suggested that you wire in a relay to the cruise control switch to effectively turn off the VSS...then be able to turn it on to use cruise.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=338788

See post #18

I bought a relay but never got around to trying it. I started using the 2 cycle oil and diesel clean as fuel additive and the stumbles seemed to be reduced quite a bit...not sure why other than the added lubricity some helped with fuel mapping. The shudder is still there...but seems to be reduced.

I asked in the thread if anyone else tried wiring the relay and there was no response but maybe someone else has done it by now?
 

greenskeeper

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Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
I never installed a relay either. Just flipped the toggle switch and then engaged cruise control. If I forgot to turn it off the car would let me know with the shudder lol.
 

iluvmydiesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Location
phila area
TDI
AHU
greenskeeper is your 53mpg in an 98 jetta TDI about accurate?
cause i have a question in the other post about (my) fuel mileage. getting ~42-43+/-mpg on my 98AHU and cannt really find away to get better right now. stock motor, a fair amount of work on it, a couple of new pistons, and a head on it, put some used injectors i found here in it. not much mileage on it, about 130k overall. real good oil/lube thru-out. timing is just about dead-on.
-oh using real good fuel treatment, and have been trying some well ok cetane boost, doubt im getting anything back from those cetane boost bottles i add.
 
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greenskeeper

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Location
USA
TDI
1998 Jetta TDI
I had the taller 5th gear which gives a few more mpgs

Larger injectors balanced by DBW (larger fuel pulse in smaller window = more complete burn)

Also injector timing makes a big difference, I ran the max adaptation through vagcom gaining 5 degrees of timing advance.
 
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