Lets build a CCV filter

GoneDiesel

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Jun 2, 2000
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USA
Gewilli, the hose does fit the OEM intake. I used 3/4 hose.

Sooty, your set up sounds pretty cool. Please get some pics. I would like to work at getting mine into a smaller size. Something 2-2.5" dia by 6-8" long would be nice.
 

Sooty

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Apr 29, 1999
Location
Midlands, UK
I’m not expert in this field so if somebody can think of a more plausible answer then please step-in. But I believe the chambers need occupy a certain amount of space to allow the gases to slow down and expand into as this aids the cooling/condensing process. If my thinking is correct then a smaller chamber would not reclaim as much oil. As to what the ideal size should be I don’t know, I just tool Lloyds advice.
 

snowball

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May 14, 2001
Location
Madison, WI
TDI
Golf, 2003, Red
I've found another place that makes these filters.
Now this is a marine application, and the cost does not seem to be on the site. This leads me to think that this brand is very expensive. Looks like they have a version for big rigs, and Dodge trucks as well.

This link will bring you to the "how it works" portion of the site.
Walker engineering Their method is to use intake air to condense the CC vapors. They then drain the oil back to the CC, and feed the water/fuel mix into the intake air.

Pros:
Seems that it should do a decent job of seperation.
Maintains a vacuum in the CC (the more I read, the more people I see think this is a big bonus)
Feeding the water/fuel mix back through the turbo keeps the engine cool, and turbo & intercooler clean (according to them)
Drains the oil back to the CC (can we decide if this is good or bad?)

Cons:
Expected high cost
Might be a bit large to mount under the hood
high cost?
Drains the oil back to the CC (can we decide if this is good or bad?)
Possible BS claims on products? (I have to admit that the black bullet and fuelsep products sound a little "out there")?

What is the groups thoughts on draining the CCV oil back to the CC? My personal thought is that the oil that we would have in the catch can is s***. Has, or would anyone be able to perform an oil analysis of the CCV oil? I'd tend to think that it would be rather diluted, and contaminated with acids and such... Data on this would be most usefull though.
 

alien8

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Apr 24, 2001
Location
CA.
Snowball, I checked out the " Walker" site, it was interesting. Another con or pro
your choice, would be that the filter(s) need to be oiled. And how do you think they expell the water/fuel back into the motor. Somekind of screen/ filter/membrain within the unit. It kinda looks like an intercooler/aftercooler yet allows direct air transfer to the engine air intake,near the turbo. Hmmmm

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: alien8 ]
 

Dante

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Apr 27, 2000
Location
Pacific Northwest
TDI
Silver 2000 Golf GLS TDI
I checked out the Walker Airsep and posted some information a couple weeks ago. They sell an inline unit for Cummins turboodiesels that we might be able to adapt to a TDI. You would have to splice it into your intake downstream of the MAF. Walker says this unit is standard equipment on Cummins Marine turbodiesels.

I think the Airsep uses intake air to cool and coalesce the oil and water vapor. What I want to know is whether or not it disturbs the airflow (i.e., does anything stick out into the intake airflow?). Walker claims >90% efficiency at removing crankcase vapors, and you could always drain the condensed CCV vapors to a resivoir instead of your sump.

I haven't followed up because the Airsep is even more expensive than the Racor CCV 4500. The Airsep looks reasonable to me, but the "bullet" products made me wonder, too.

It seems our options are:

1. Racor CrankVent or CCV 4500 filter. I got a quote of $212.50 for a CCV4500 from a local distributor.

2. The M20 aircraft oil separator. >$200

3. The Walker Airsep. The inline unit costs about $450.

4. Commercial oil catch can. $50 to >$100

5. Make something ourselves.

I will probably opt for a Racor CCV 4500 in the location of GoneDiesel's PVC setup if it looks like that will work and my "project" budget permits. Until then, I'll watch this thread for less expensive alternatives.

[ August 08, 2001: Message edited by: Dante Driver ]
 

Dan Clarke

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Jul 7, 2000
Location
Watsonville CA
Hi,

I put thislinkin another thread but it might help someone here till a real honest to goodness solution is found. I doubt it has the volume to continue working through a drive of several hours due to my percieved notion that the media will load up and not accept any more oil till it gets a draindown period, but my commute at the present time is less than an hour and it seems to be keeping my intake dry for now.

Dan
 

MOGolf

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underneath something
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2001 Golf GLS TDI Reflex silver, rough road suspension and steel skid plate, 2004 Passat Variant, Candy White, rough road suspension and geared balanced shaft module, and much, much more. 2016 LR RR HSE TD6, 2019 Jaguar I-PACE
If you had turned the bottle 180 degrees, moving the valve 180 degrees from where you have it, with the neck of the bottle attached to the valve cover, it could self drain back into the valve cover.

This may require leaving the engine cover off. But it is essentially what is needed on this engine to condense the oil and return it to the engine.
 

GeWilli

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Location
lost to new england
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none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
I'll re-register my objection to letting the oil drain back in.

You don't want that stuff in there.

Do not drain the oil from a CCV catch can back into the engine.

Collect it and dispose of it with the oil from an oil change.
 

Dan Clarke

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Joined
Jul 7, 2000
Location
Watsonville CA
MIGOLFGLSTDI,

Didn't see the forest for the trees. I'll see if there's room for it in the up position and if there is, I'll change it and take some more pictures.


GeWilli,

Or, I may to listen to you and leave it in the down position. Having it drain back to the engine, automatically, appeals to my lazy side, but then I won't ever know what it's doing because I won't be checking it.

Do you know if there has been scientific testing done on the collected oil to determine what's in it and how harmful it is?

Dan
 

Boone

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Joined
Mar 10, 2001
Location
Cecil, Wisconsin
TDI
Jetta GLS TDI 2001 Blue Laggun
Hey guys,
Was just reading up on this topic cuz i was concidering doing this mod to my Jetts TDI. I have seen some comment about using a compressed air inlne filter to catch airborne particulates and oil mist. I think this would work but my only concern is the operating temp of most of compressed air items, most are only rated for 125-150 deg F and im not sure what the temp is on the air coming out of the engine. Any thoughts on this?

Also i think a inline filter like im talking about need a certain amount of minimum PSI to even begin to work properly, when we start the compressors up at the shop here, you can hear air leaking out of all of those filter till the system reaches a certain PSI.

Ive done some checking into several compressed air filters and the size of a unit that would handle the CFM is about the size of the 4500ccv filter.
 

GeWilli

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none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
boone,


won't work - not enough pressure to force through the filter.

this is defiantely a low pressure high volume filter application.

I've been looking at an empty Amsoil Cetane boost bottle . . . exhaust out the top - fill it with alluminum wool, put a drain in the bottom and plumb the intake midway through the bottle. . . . attach it to the oil filter housing onthe A4 . . .
 

jetmann

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2k2 Jetta
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeWilli:
I'll re-register my objection to letting the oil drain back in.

You don't want that stuff in there.

Do not drain the oil from a CCV catch can back into the engine.

Collect it and dispose of it with the oil from an oil change.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Does this apply to CCV filters, as well as the catch can? I'm interested in the mod, but not sure what direction I'll take yet...
 

GeWilli

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lost to new england
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jettmann,

absolutely it applies to anything that would let the vapors condense and drain back in.

this is bad very bad
 

jetmann

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2k2 Jetta
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeWilli:
[QBabsolutely it applies to anything that would let the vapors condense and drain back in.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I was thinking about Drivbiwire's Racor setup...Has Pete ever done an analysis of the flowback (or is that flowthrough, in his case), and if so, was there anything significant in the returned oil?
 

GeWilli

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lost to new england
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none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
jettman - you are asking if I agree with something pete is doing???? LOL

you've been in a dark closet or something for a month or two
 

jetmann

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Location
the abyss
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2k2 Jetta
Nope, not at all...I've just lurked long enough to feel you guys are all too knowledgeable and too damn' good with these cars to let the oil wars remain personal for very long...
 

Electron Man

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Jun 23, 2000
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GeWilli:
...it applies to anything that would let the vapors condense...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you thinking the vapors (condensed to liquid) are primarily blow by from combustion? This would explain why the "gunk" stinks (compared to the crankcase oil).

I'd also agree that a larger volume (somewhere between 3/4 to 1 liter) would be better for condensing vapors. They need more time in there to condense.
 

GeWilli

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lost to new england
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none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
that is where the water is coming from and most of the volatiles - the oil that adheres to the 'mist' is the problem but the oil serves to slow the acid stuff down before it gets to the rest of the car's guts if you have a filter.

I was thinking an Amosil Cetane boost metal can would work real well. . . . attached right to the side of the oil filter . . . (on an A4 type engine)
 

boots

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Joined
May 29, 2001
Location
Hawkestone, On. Can.
I recently did an oil change and when I started the engine to check underneath for leaks I forgot to put the oil fill cap back in place. There is a fair volume of air blowing out of that hole at idle. It's hard to imagine how much air is flowing through the small hoses when RPMs are high.
 

MJSfoto1956

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Joined
Mar 19, 1999
Location
Marshfield MA
TDI
1996 Passat TDI
So I am confused...

My 1997 Jetta TDI has TWO hoses going to/from the round "thing" at the top of the valve cover.

1.) hose comes from the bottom of the block and connects to the round "thing"
2.) another hose goes from the "thing" to the intake pipe.
3.) then there is the connection of the "thing" to the valve cover itself

This arrangement is quite different than the newer models where there seems to be only the exit from the "thing" to the intake. Not sure exactly HOW my motor works!

How would I add a CCV filter (such as a Racor) to my motor??

MJS
 

DIESEL DAZZLER

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Dorchester
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81VW TDI PU,94 GOLF TDI,97 PASSAT TDI,03 ,06 JETTA TDI's,KABOTA DIESEL LAWNMOWER
Hello confused.Ok not that complicated.Bottom hose vents crankcase to breather in valve cover,this hose vents thru a maze atached to block.the valve cover has an oil trap inside.The hose from breather valve to intake draws fumes into engine intake and turbo blowes it thru intercooler etc.Plug this hose to intake .from breather run 3/4 hose,about 3ft over trans to behind engine into tunnel,filter is optional since pressure is positive
 

Ricks99jettatdi

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Joined
Oct 14, 2000
Location
Hartland, Wis.
TDI
1999.5 jetta
Hi everyone, I have built a ccv filter that may be of interest to some. Sorry no pics.
It is made of pvc pipe and fittings.3/4"id. hose is run from ccv to 1/2" id. pvc pipe w / a 90 , a drop of 4" to 90 goes into 1 1/2 pvc(vertical) with pvc caps on both ends ( special holes drilled to fit 1/2" pipe), then rises to 1/2 90 and back to intake hose. 1 1/2" pvc is filled with copper mesh (scrubing pad) with screen on ether side. Seems to work pretty well. reduces oil
discharge 95%.
Hope this is clear enough of explainsion of how it works. Rick S.
 

gearhead

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Jan 17, 2001
Location
Weirton, WV (close to Pittsburgh)
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2001 Golf
Below is a direct response to information requested from Racor:

"At the present time, Racor offers three Closed Crankcase Ventilation
systems, the CCV4500, CCV6000, and CCV8000. Unfortunately the smallest,
CCV4500, is still too large for your application. It will work as far as
size, however, the unit is too large to mount in the engine compartment.
Racor is in the process of releasing two smaller sized CCV's. Both are in
the new product release path and should hopefully be available in 45-60
days. It is my recommendation for you to check back with us to find out
the status of the new products.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best regards,

Rick Spencer
Sales Promotion Specialist
Parker Hannifin Corporation
Racor Division"
 

Dante

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Silver 2000 Golf GLS TDI
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gearhead:
Below is a direct response to information requested from Racor:

"Racor is in the process of releasing two smaller sized CCV's. Both are in
the new product release path and should hopefully be available in 45-60
days.
<hr></blockquote>

Hmm. I have a birthday a little while after that time frame. I think I just figured out what I want.

I also like the "beta tester" idea. Racor could probably find lots of them right here
 

Oo-v-oO

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Live Free or Die, USA
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98 Jetta Expired... Now 2000 Golf & 2002 Golf
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by boots:
I recently did an oil change and when I started the engine to check underneath for leaks I forgot to put the oil fill cap back in place. There is a fair volume of air blowing out of that hole at idle. It's hard to imagine how much air is flowing through the small hoses when RPMs are high.<hr></blockquote>


Hi all, new TDI owner here. (98 Jetta)

Blowby through the oil cap is much greater at idle than at higher engine speeds, at least in my experience with my older A2 diesels. At slow engine speeds, the rings have more time to leak compression into the crankcase.
The only exception to that may be when a turbocharged engine is under boost. It would be hard to see what's coming out of the oil cap while the car was pulling up a hill, though.


Lee
Oo-v-oO
PP-ASEL
KB1GNI
 

Kubla84

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Elmwood Place, Ohio
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2015 Audi Q5
When you get more information on the new Racor filter, could you post it here, I have not done anything with my CCV and really should but do not want to just vent it overboard

Thanks
 

christi

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Joined
Feb 22, 1999
Location
Ruislip, Middlesex, UK
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Peugeot 806, 607
Would something like this work?



It is item 399-5327 at http://www.rswww.com

Here are the specs:-
Medium Compressed air
Maximum inlet pressure 10 bar
Temperature range -10°C to +50°C
Drain Manual or semi-automatic
Filter element 5µm
Flow 17.5 dm3/s
Weight 75g

[ November 23, 2001: Message edited by: christi ]</p>
 

christi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 22, 1999
Location
Ruislip, Middlesex, UK
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Peugeot 806, 607
Then there is 399-5311 from the same supplier that says:-

* High quality polyamide bowl
* Standard 0.3 micron filter element
* Efficient particle and oil removal characteristics
* Semi-automatic drain
 
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