Car Died. Fun Times.

Well, 2004 TDI lost power on the highway during acceleration. Got to a safe spot and now it won't start. Waiting for tow truck.

Boost pipes are all connected. No codes at all. Cranks but won't fire. In tank pump works. Glow plug light turns on with key as normal.

While still on highway I could just barely maintain speed if I dropped it to 4th gear. Boost was showing 16 PSI so it seems the turbo works.

I'm thinking it must be something electrical but I have no tools with me. I have a generic code reader. VCDS at home.

Wish me luck!

Check to see if you smell burnt wires under the hood. Had the same issue but burning up starters. Starter would kick in going down the road. After the 3rd one. I put a push button in the dash. Key on push to start. No more issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Well I made it home, but I'm not going to deal with this tonight. I have a motorbike to get around on for now.

This is not making a whole lot of sense. I was accelerating fairly hard merging onto the highway, and then it just went flat. In fifth gear I was gradually slowing down, even with full throttle. Dropping it to fourth made it work just enough to keep it going about 90km/h, but no faster.

Then I took an exit off the highway and once I got into some slow traffic I ended up in first with the revs up to keep the engine running. Then I was forced to let the RPM's drop and that was it. The engine stopped running.

So, it seemed to sort of run as long as I had the RPM up around 3000, but lacked power. Once the engine speed was too low, it died.

Could this be anything to do with crank or cam position sensors? If the ECU can't detect the spinning of the engine would it just assume the engine is not rotating and therefore inject no fuel, and not set a code? (Why set a code if it thinks the engine isn't turning, right?)

My cheap scanner that I keep in the car found nothing.

VCDS found this:

1 Fault Found:
19464 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40)
P3008 - 000 - Signal Out of Range
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 210 /min
Torque: 224.0 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 97.6 %
Voltage: 10.26 V
Bin. Bits: 00001100
Idle Stabilization: 0.0°KW
(no units): 35.0

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

Click to expand...

The CRANKSHAFT position sensor works, because RPM is detected, but the CAMSHAFT position sensor apparently does not.

Would this cause the engine to not run? I thought I read that it will still run with one sensor or the other. Maybe this is not so.

Not 100% knowledgeable on the BEWs but I would check timing belt tension and make sure you didn't skip a tooth on the cam sprocket. Sounds like what my ALH did when my timing belt tensioner failed and I skipped a tooth on my IP & Cam. Just my 2¢, I could be completely wrong.

I’ll be watching this, here’s hoping it’s a cam sensor only, and not belt related, but I’m thinking you better check anyway.

When my belt lost 8” of teeth it was throwing a cam or crank sensor code, I don’t remember which. Pull the upper and lower tb cover, check for duff behind the lower around the crank, make sure alll the teeth are intact.

I have the sickening feeling this is going to be a timing belt problem.

TB replacement was not due for another 50,000km so it’s well within the normal change interval, and it’s got 110,000km on the current belt, so it’s not like it was just replaced recently.

How far off can the timing be before valves get damaged? I’m not going to have time to look into this until maybe quite a bit later today, or might even have to wait for the weekend.

If I remember correctly the error window is 7 degrees of crank rotation, roughly, which is not very much at all.

If the cam is not in the correct place (by any material amount) when the TDC mark is in the window you're screwed.

Sounds like the crankshaft position sensor. In my case the fine wires in the attached cable of the sensor had become brittle due to engine heat. Repositioning the cable was my only clue. Must have happened when I changed the t-stat upon which the cable wraps around.

Cam sensor should not cause a no start. It's used to compare with the crank sensor for faster starts. When mine was bad, it didn't make any real difference. I got the same code.

But, with it giving you that code, I would be looking at the belt. Easy enough to pull the cover and have a look.

Good luck, hopefully it's not a broken TB.

IIRC I have read about crank sensors going bad and giving a no start/no code. Just a WAG, but maybe it got hot and slowly died. Now you have a no-start because it's totally fubar'd.

ETA: Or like JB05 says the wiring is always suspect for both sensors.

Game Over

Yeah, that ain't good....

I'm sorry for your loss. Head pulling time!

As long as the pistons are okay, I guess a rebuilt head and a timing belt replacement should fix this.

I’m tempted to buy a newer TDI though, like a 2015 (then we’d have two of the same car).

I’m really not sure what I’m going to do at this point.

Hey before you pull the head just line up everything with the tools and see how far off you are. Who knows? Maybe you’ll get lucky.

This happened to me about a year ago this may. Something got under my tb cover and caused the belt to pause long enough to remove 8” of teeth. It’s fixable, one way or another.

I’m looking at your picture and it looks like the top side of your belt has a ruffed up area where it rubbed against something?

I think I’ll just take the head off anyway. I’m pretty sure there were bad noises while I was limping it to an exit. It got a bit clattery for the last 30 seconds. I wasn’t sure what was going on at the time and was really too occupied with trying to drive a car in traffic that could only maintain the speed it was going, but not accelerate once it slowed down.

I think as long as the engine rpm was high, momentum would keep the cam spinning. When it slowed down, it would slip further and further out of time, so the further I went and the slower I went, the worse it got, until finally it wouldn’t run.

This car has a lot of fairly new parts on it such as the turbo, in tank fuel pump, tandem pump, all suspension parts, skid plate, clutch, tires, and I have a lot of spares for it.

Question... Once I have a new head, should I set the engine to TDC, then turn it back until the pistons are all even and away from the deck, then torque the head down, set the cam at the proper position and lock it, then turn the engine back to TDC and lock it, then support the engine, remove the motor mount, and install the new belt, water pump, rollers, and tensioner? Does that technique sound about right?

Jeez. I'm new to diesels, and very new to TDIs and this forum, but I gotta say - I'm concerned here.

In my short time (about a week) of browsing these forums, this is the 2nd or 3rd slipped TB story I've read. And all of them have the same details - (1) not a new belt, but nowhere near its replacement interval, (2) going highway speeds, (3) very likely destroyed valves and possibly bent a couple rods.


What gives here? Is the mileage interval just wishful thinking or what?

I guess the mileage and the age should both be taken into account.

My current belt was replaced in March 2011, so it’s about 7 years old. I guess I should have replaced it at six years.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

Question... Once I have a new head, should I set the engine to TDC, then turn it back until the pistons are all even and away from the deck, then torque the head down, set the cam at the proper position and lock it, then turn the engine back to TDC and lock it, then support the engine, remove the motor mount, and install the new belt, water pump, rollers, and tensioner? Does that technique sound about right?

Click to expand...

That’s what I did, I found another engine but put a new cam in it. Rotating the pistons to the half way mark worked fine. In my case I put the timing belt on before I dropped the engine in. A new timing belt installation with the engine sitting in front of you on a stand is a 20 minute job, well maybe 30.

stomachbuzz said:

Jeez. I'm new to diesels, and very new to TDIs and this forum, but I gotta say - I'm concerned here.

In my short time (about a week) of browsing these forums, this is the 2nd or 3rd slipped TB story I've read. And all of them have the same details - (1) not a new belt, but nowhere near its replacement interval, (2) going highway speeds, (3) very likely destroyed valves and possibly bent a couple rods.

What gives here? Is the mileage interval just wishful thinking or what?

Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not.

I somewhat-recently did the belt on my '03; it had ~75k miles on it. When it came out of the car it, the tensioner and rollers were all perfectly fine; the reason it got done on short interval was that the water pump seal started leaking (around the shaft) and that forced its replacement before the normal interval had expired.

There are a number of things that can derail you though. A bad bearing in a roller can do it. So can pre-loading the teeth of the belt by not tensioning it with both the cam sprocket NOT tightened on the snout of the cam and, for ALH models, the IP sprocket bolts loose (that is, so there is only ONE fixed point of reference -- the crank sprocket.) And finally any sort of debris that gets in the path or a fluid leak that damages the belt can do it too. I always inspect what's visible with the top cover off during an oil change to try to catch any of that sort of thing going on before it hoses you, but there are no guarantees.....

stomachbuzz said:

Jeez. I'm new to diesels, and very new to TDIs and this forum, but I gotta say - I'm concerned here.

In my short time (about a week) of browsing these forums, this is the 2nd or 3rd slipped TB story I've read. And all of them have the same details - (1) not a new belt, but nowhere near its replacement interval, (2) going highway speeds, (3) very likely destroyed valves and possibly bent a couple rods.


What gives here? Is the mileage interval just wishful thinking or what?

Click to expand...

Keep in mind that any forum, by nature, is going to have a high number of people posting about component failures. No one is going to post about their timing belt lasting through the service interval with no problems.

Second, the OP's belt in this thread was about 12K miles from the change interval (80K in the US, I assume it's the same in Canada), and past the commonly accepted time limit by two years. The other thread you're referring to the age and mileage on the belt was unknown. These are conditions where you can have problems.

In the 10+ TDIs I've owned or cared for I've only experienced one timing belt failure. That was in a car that sat for six months and when we started using it again the water pump seized, stripping the teeth off the belt. Miraculously, the engine did not lose time and was fine when a new belt kit was installed. But not many people are that lucky.

IMO timing belt issues and complaints get too much play here. If you pay attention to the change interval (miles and time) and replace all the components properly, problems are highly unlikely.

Good point, most folks go to forums when they have issues.
It seems the timing belt service is easily tofued, even by experienced mechanics. Many folks relay on their experience and fail to take the time to read and understand.

Mike_04GolfTDI said:

I guess the mileage and the age should both be taken into account.

My current belt was replaced in March 2011, so it’s about 7 years old. I guess I should have replaced it at six years.

Click to expand...

No, well maybe under very extreme environmental conditions.

Are the AMC heads I'm seeing for sale considered to be decent quality? Are those new, or rebuilds?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Keep in mind that any forum, by nature, is going to have a high number of people posting about component failures. No one is going to post about their timing belt lasting through the service interval with no problems.

Second, the OP's belt in this thread was about 12K miles from the change interval (80K in the US, I assume it's the same in Canada), and past the commonly accepted time limit by two years. The other thread you're referring to the age and mileage on the belt was unknown. These are conditions where you can have problems.

In the 10+ TDIs I've owned or cared for I've only experienced one timing belt failure. That was in a car that sat for six months and when we started using it again the water pump seized, stripping the teeth off the belt. Miraculously, the engine did not lose time and was fine when a new belt kit was installed. But not many people are that lucky.

IMO timing belt issues and complaints get too much play here. If you pay attention to the change interval (miles and time) and replace all the components properly, problems are highly unlikely.

Click to expand...

I've got 40K miles on your TB and components so far, no problems

I would hope so! Thanks for the business.

I've got the intake and turbo removed. Now I'm taking a break before I figure out what to do next.

Mine from last year. I thought those little clean circles were supposed to be there. Maybe not.

Well I got the head off. I'd include pictures but I can't seem to upload any right now. It says image uploaded successfully, but then it isn't there. I've done it many times before. Not sure what's wrong.

Anyway, my pictures look almost exactly like the ones from TDIJarhead. I have the same circles pressed into the pistons. That doesn't look good. I'm trying to image the force it would require for a valve to leave an imprint like that.

I haven't measured it yet, but I can feel no difference in the piston protrusion. It doesn't seem like I have any bent rods.

Then there's the matter of the aggravating plastic part behind the timing belt that apparently stops the head from lifting off. I wrestled with it until eventually the plastic just broke. Hopefully I can buy that part. I assume it'll be easy to replace the plastic when I have the motor mount and everything off.

So, I guess I can just put a new head and timing belt on it, and it should be good to go.

Is there a special trick to unplugging the wires from the injectors? I see nothing to push or pull, that won't break, to release the wires. Obviously there must be a proper way.

Edit: Okay, timing cover, that's the plastic BS I need to buy. https://www.idparts.com/timing-belt-inner-cover-bew-p-7277.html Glad to see it's available.

TDIJarhead did you replace your pistons or connecting rods?

Or did you just replace the head and timing belt?

Actually I sourced a different lower mileage engine. I still have the old one sitting in my barn.

The new engine came with all of the parts normally attached so I thought I’d be money ahead by going that route. Extra parts, turbo, tandem pump etc. I was until I found a worn lobe on the new engine and had to put a cam in it. My old dead engine turned out to have 5 of 8 lobes worn. So I guess either way I was into a new cam.