Help - Rear axle nut won't tighten enough to get cotter pin in.

It's so awesome when people post 2048x4096 pics, so all the text is 300 columns scrolled to the right. Keep it up.

Sorry @turbodieseldyke , was kinda hoping this vBulletin 3.8.5 forum software would auto size the width to fit whatever display width our devices have, then let you click it to get full size picture quality. I hate shrinking pics and losing all that detail, figuring some readers including myself might be slightly visually impaired and appreciate the bigger detail size LOL.


To the admin: why not upgrade to vBulletin 5 - it has far better image presentation options and prevents horizontal scroll bars much better than this version 3 ??

https://www.vbulletin.com/download.php

Chris_TDI_98 said:

I've installed a rear lower sway bar, for 4 years now. Consequently, in turns, the forces are greater on both side rear axle nuts and rear bearings. Since the rear lower sway bar keeps the car flatter in turns. It's fun as hell to drive. Really feels like a race car. Squeals the tires more easily and sooner in the turns. Like you're riding on rails. It hardly sways the body of the car at all. But the downside is, the rear lower sway bar strains the bearings and axle nuts harder than a stock OEM rear suspension would.

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this may not be true, your going to have more control, and probably more balance, going thru turns and driving harder doesnt really count, its your own lead-foot. and yes going faster puts that much more stress, here and there, not only the wheel bearings &components,like the nut, will take that much more stress.

Yep the admin is involved in this thread and ready to change their forum options.

Another great reason to upgrade this vbulletin forum software from 3.8.x (about 7 years old) to version 5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sndWSDOOSw

Chris_TDI_98 said:

If you were to buy a wheel nut at a hardware store...
What's the size of the shaft the wheel nut fits onto?
Thread pitch?

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UGH........ Look at the picture of the threads on the stub. See how they are kinda flat looking? They look FUBARed to me. I would not even try to put a nut on that stub........

Worth repeating. When replacing bearings, use quality bearings and and ALWAYS use the races that came with the new bearings even if the old races look good.

The bearing and races are manufactured as a matched set, and even with quality bearings, reusing the old races with new bearings will shorten the bearings life.

Ol'Rattler said:

UGH........ Look at the picture of the threads on the stub. See how they are kinda flat looking? They look FUBARed to me. I would not even try to put a nut on that stub........

Worth repeating. When replacing bearings, use quality bearings and and ALWAYS use the races that came with the new bearings even if the old races look good.

The bearing and races are manufactured as a matched set, and even with quality bearings, reusing the old races with new bearings will shorten the bearings life.

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OK. I removed the 18-year-old original VW bearing races 2 yrs ago when the bearing failed originally, and installed the new races that came with the new Meyle bearing. I'll do the same this time, even though the races and bearing are from the same manufacturer Meyle, they might be different enough that they don't exactly go together as perfectly.

Bearings and races should always be replaced as a pair.

The stub axle threads are shot, time for new stub.

Steve

Chris_TDI_98 said:

OK. I removed the 18-year-old original VW bearing races 2 yrs ago when the bearing failed originally, and installed the new races that came with the new Meyle bearing. I'll do the same this time, even though the races and bearing are from the same manufacturer Meyle, they might be different enough that they don't exactly go together as perfectly.

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Who manufactured the bearing is not the point. The point is that the races that came with a bearing should only be used with that bearing. The rollers, inner race and outer race are manufactured as a matched set. It is assumed by the manufacturer that the bearing is installed correctly which means making sure you install the inner and outer race that the new bearing came with.

Why is that so hard to grasp?

I ended up getting the axle nut (M16 x 1.0 is the size in case anyone needs it) at NAPA for 3.95 plus tax = 4.24. VW Dealer price for the axle nut is 7.95.
And the new stub axle for mk3 Jetta with rear drum brakes and No ABS, locally at eEuroParts (pickup at their warehouse in nearby Windsor, CT) for $17.74 plus tax = $18.87

That should get you back on the road.

Dumb question. How do you get this round backing plate off? In order to gain access to the four hex bolt heads, these four bolts must be removed in order to replace the stub axle.

It is a press fit. You'll have to use your imagination to get it off while not ruining it. Maybe a little propane torch heat near the center while prying forward will help.

huh, at first i was a little, as leonard would say, befuddled. took pliers, maybe some screwdriver action, it goes back on a little loose. no big deal(for me), it would seem.

One of the four 15mm head bolts holding in the old damaged stub axle was stuck very hard in there. So Murphy's Law struck again, half the bolt broke off while cranking it out, leaving the other half stuck in the hole.

The plastic bag in the picture is holding up the backing plate for the drum brakes, still attached to the hard hydraulic brake line.

Any suggestion how to easily get that stuck half of a bolt out?!

Acetylene torch and vise grips. Red hot will do it. Maybe weld a nut onto the end.

or drill out the sucker and re-tap it (yuck). Easier to screw it up.

100 sure fire way to get it out with out damaging the threads on the plate is to drill a hole strait though the broken bolt, like a 3'16 or 1/4" should do the trick. this lets you have room for it to shrink when you shock it. now hit it with some heat from a torch (propane or MAP) untill the plate is nice and hot and the bolt is a glowing orange, dont go to hot, and now spray with a squirt bottle some water on the bolt trying to keep from cooling off the plate, this rapidly shocks and shrinks the bolt while the plate is still hot.

Now you can use a easy out, (looks like a spiral drill bit with reverse threads so as you spin it in revers it tighten into it. I would drill the biggest hole you can so you can use the largest size easy out. Alternatively you can just 1:1 acetone and ATF and let it soak overnight and do the same thing if you dont have heat or a welder.

Make sure you chase the threads with a good tap before moving forward once its out. If your completely F'd in the A and it just goes from bad to worse, you can always drill it out completely threads and all and just tap in a larger thread size and get a larger bolt.

Looks like I'm gong to need to buy or borrow an M10 x 1.5mm tap to chase out the threads, like this guy did...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4064446-rear-stub-axle-bolts-size-length

when it comes to tap and die's, just buy the one you need. dont every buy a kit. you will spend less and get high quality for your money vs crap

OK, after a day of trying different things on and off, propane torch, drilling, spraying lubricant on it, I drilled completely thru the center of the bolt which is remaining in the hole.

I think it's high tensile strength steel...

The hole I drilled is narrow, probably 3-4mm, in proportion to the M10 (10mm) bolt.

And the drilled hole is NOT perfectly straight thru the center, it goes and an angle - down and to the right.

Question now is, what to do to get the rest of the bolt out, WITHOUT damaging the threads, or with the lowest chance of damaging the threads:
1. Use an "EASY-OUT" bolt extractor - a progressively thicker/wider left-handed drill bit ?
2. Use a straight, left-handed drill bit.
3. Heat it red hot (it doesn't get red hot with the propane torch even after 5 minutes), hit it with water, hope it collapses/cracks.
4. Borrow welder and weld an M10 nut to the exposed stub.
5. Use angle grinder to cut a slot, and/or a phillips-head "PLUS", across the middle of the exposed stub, and try to screwdriver it out, combined with heat,
6. Try to re-drill the hole straight, and then hit it with heat and cold water, to try to crack it apart.
7. something else.

The hole is fine, its just to let it shrink more than it could wit out. like i said 1:1 acetone and ATF mixed and let it soak into the threads overnight. you dont need to go red hot, jut a glowing cherry red but not like a blacksmith hot. Shock it a few times with water, like the entire thing with a gallon at a time. now you can get 3 types of bolt removers. The one thats a coned reverse thread drill bit looking thing, a square version that looks like a wedge or a bolt cap extractor that looks like a socket. i would drill the hole out 1/4" deep to take the largest size you can go with. DO NOT MONKEY ARM THIS. if you break off the easy out, you are F'ed in the A. you cant drill out hardened steel that the easy out is made of.

After doing some heat to it, and some shocking cycles, it should come off a bit at a time. if you can move it 1/16 of a turn just keep soaking it with solvent or heat.

If you do have to drill it out, you have 2 options, upsize the threads with a tap or go with a helicoil. Ill post some images to help.

There is an acid that you can get from farm and tractor supply for old rusty farm equipment. it has skulls and crossbones on it and looks like a can of PB blaster but with only white label and black lettering. I have no clue what its called and am too lazy to go out to the barn and see what it is. this stuff EATS rust but does not penetrate very far But it works VERY WELL.

I dont know waht size you are going to need so this is jsut to clear up what the tool looks like and is not nessasarily the one you need. You decide that bit because im to lazy to pull my axle off and measure the bolt!

Helicoil:


Options for removal tool:

as long as you take it easy on the insertable extractors you should be fine. i prefer the socket type because you can always try another method if it does not work but your bolt may be to short for that. Good luck, keep us posted. JUST DONT BREAK THAT EXTRACTOR OFF IN IT.

What ever you do use a sharp drill bit and PLENTY of coolant like oil or water to keep the bit cool at all times, when they get hot they dull. Just go slow and use common sense on this, i dont think your going to have too much issues if you heat it up.

More huge pics.

Now that you have an off center crooked hole the chances of fixing the hole with an insert are not so good if you can't get the bolt out.

Heating doesn't really shrink it since it and the surrounding metal just expand together and shrink back to their original size unless you can get just the bolt HOT. The heat/cool cycles do help break the bond between the two.

I wouldn't try an internal remover. If it's loose enough for one of those it's loose enough for vice grips. And if it breaks you have a bigger problem as was mentioned. I doubt you have enough sticking out for the external type and it'll just shave off material.

I'd continue with the heating/cooling and penetrating oil. If you can heat just the bolt that would be help since you get some differential expansion between the bolt and the hole to help break the bond. Or if you can heat the material around the bolt that would be even better. Problem is the typical propane/MAPP torch is not very precise.

Going bigger and straighter with the hole will help.

What I would do since I have the welder is drill it out and fill the hole from the bottom up with weld and add a nut. Doing this will shrink the diameter because you have the center filled with the melt and it's much hotter than the surrounding metal. Then as it cools the diameter decreases. Maybe could do it with MIG but I'd use TIG.

Good luck and be patient.

your hole off-center effects getting whats left of the threaded screw still in there. other than that it doesnt effect the base metal at this time. unless you mess it/them (threads) up while doing this removal. id say drill a bigger hole, and try to remove whats left of screw,bolt, using penetrating 'oil' and drilling bigger should make it much easier to get less of whats left out. getting hole/drill closer to center; thats a trick. less mass in there will be better tho, and easier to deal with, get out. just dont drill enough to get into base threads, and you have a chance. if this works use a tap and clean up/run new threads. depending on condition at that time. i prefer quality taps/dies. prefer snap-on. helps cleaning up threads, or chasing/running new threads. just my preference.

kind of against the heating and especially the cooling procedures/cycles. for one heating up axle flange, and especially shock cooling it, or even just cooling it is going to have an effect on base metal. just end up buying and installing the whole axle beam. if you just heated up and shock cooled whats left of 'screw', hey, not too bad. changing the axle(flange) metal characteristics, not soo good! , muy mal.

kind of like KLXD, drill the whole sucker out. prefer tig, can even install a (hi-grade) nut on back of flange, that is after finishing all steps, id install bolt, put nut on back, think of welding in on(back of flange), later torque bolt. tig will have the lowest heat transfer, if you do it right, mig wont be so bad either, then again mig will go quicker. fill in hole, weld good. line up so you can drill a new hole, needs to be accurate. tap new threads, and follow above steps, if you want. you may be good.

Maybe a good point about heating the base metal but you can't have it both ways.

Either it's a high strength alloy and heating/cooling it ruins the heat treatment or it isn't.

If it is then welding on it will mess it up too.

I doubt that it is.

I think that you'll have to crank bolt out while it is hot...not cool it, then try.
Focus the heat on the bolt and whatever threads are sticking out the back side and get it HOT (not yellow hot...cherry red) rather than the base metal. It will become slightly plastic and give. Works for me.

KLXD said:

If it is then welding on it will mess it up too.

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welding would/should tend to be more local heat. it ll do some heat & cooling to base metal. tig is supposed to be the least heat input, most local, for modern popular processes, it ll be the strongest weld. it, being a slow process allows heat to build up.
mig being a quicker process, and is much more user, beginner friendly.
if you do weld make sure you get good base penetration, thats where your long-term strength will come from. the middle part, not as important, you ll drill this out.

lining up hole to drill will be a critical step. id, from first look say, line up new stub, put other 3 bolts in, snug, dont have to be tight. you ll want the hole you filled to line up just (about) right. take a scribe, draw an good circle around the hole,opening. probably have to take stub off. find the center of hole, (very important), punch. probably remount stub, 3 bolts again snug. using center mark, drill straight. tap. <try to use the thickness of stub base hole to kind of 'guide' drill straight.

I've gotten the drum back on the axle.

However, the brake shoes are SO TIGHT, I had to force the drum back on by hitting it with a log, it's so tightly on there, the drum won't turn.

I've got a suspicion that the reason for this tightness is probably, that the "adjuster wedge" is in the "maximum wedge the shoes out toward to the drum" position.

Any easy way to retract that "adjuster wedge" without removing the drum again?