bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
True, I'm thinking of my fat rear end on my recumbent trike. I can push it up to about 24-27 on the steepest downhills I encounter around here, and my level ground cruising speed is 11-15.
Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability
- Thread starter Mark SF
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VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2000
- Location
- Springfield, VA
- TDI
- ‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Would a hypothetical 200-mile range VW E-Cross Polo work for you?Would never own a GM vehicle, but that aside I am not all that fond of its styling and it looks to have the typical horrific rear blind spot problems (which is common on a lot of new cars).
I cannot even PARK at work, let alone have a dedicated charging station just for me. Our lot is so small and crammed, we (employees) have to park at one of three adjacent buildings' lots. For what it would cost to run the electric to one of those places, I could fuel my Golf for a VERY long time.
I also drive a lot, which would mean piling miles on. Currently I can divide some of the mileage up between a few cars, largely because I am seemingly always fixing something up to sell. That requires driving it to and from work here and there. So that Bolt (or similar) would find itself sitting here and there. I am not sure how the longevity of the electrics will be if that happens a lot, but conversely I am not sure how the longevity in the real world will be either. The Golf has zero problems sitting for 3 days, then being driven 300 miles in one day, then sitting for a day, then being driven 100 miles a day for the next 10 days in succession. And it does so happily and reliably despite closing in on 17 years since it left the factory in Brazil and having covered [currently] 504,xxx miles. It was also cheap. Including its purchase in a well used state, the costs of the Great Untooefing, and the few (very few) items I have had to "fix" on it since then, I probably have less than $5k in it TOTAL.
And I can tow my trailer (or a another car) with it.
I can tag triple digit speeds in it (do this almost every morning).
I can blast the A/C and still accelerate UP hills, even with a trunk full of scrap.
Comfortable to drive, even for me, since Germans know how to make even small cars' interiors to accommodate full sized humans.
No exotic tire size, so I can enjoy 80k+ miles of real world treadlife without running them into the wear bars and putting myself in danger.
Brakes don't seem to ever wear out.
Very little nannyware (which I prefer).
I did like the electric Focus a lot one of our security guard fleets has. They are actually getting a couple more. They work well for them, we just need to make them understand that they need to come in every couple weeks to rotate the tires or they'll scorch right through the fronts (lots of parking lot driving in them). But they have to stop and changeout the cars mid shift, because they cannot go the whole time on a charge. Mainly because of HVAC demands, not so much range.
If the eGolf had the range and was cheap enough and was proven to last long enough, I would entertain that for sure. Even though I am still of the camp that thinks electrified ICE cars means too much compromise under most circumstances. But at least I could enjoy driving it.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
That would be a bare minimum range for me. I could get to my daughter's college and back on a single charge, assuming no penalty for using hvac, or good recharge from braking. Her appartment is right at 100 miles door to door. I could probably plug in at the dealer close to her while we do other stuff. For use around town, that could mean having to charge every third to fourth day. Plus I have always thought VW should offer the Polo over here as more of an entry level car than the Jetta sedan.Would a hypothetical 200-mile range VW E-Cross Polo work for you?
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
I'd love a Polo. Can it be had for $5k?
But yes, I'd consider any electric Volkswagen if I were in the market for a new car and it would work for me.
My last new car has been ordered already, however. And it is diesel powered. Maybe some day in the future if a cheap EV Polo was to stumble my way for cheap I'd take a gander. I doubt I will be driving that long.
But yes, I'd consider any electric Volkswagen if I were in the market for a new car and it would work for me.
My last new car has been ordered already, however. And it is diesel powered. Maybe some day in the future if a cheap EV Polo was to stumble my way for cheap I'd take a gander. I doubt I will be driving that long.
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2000
- Location
- Springfield, VA
- TDI
- ‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
New pricing on electrics is prohibitively expensive for a lot of people, but off-lease pricing can be very attractive! It'll be interesting to see what 3 year old e-Golf pricing is, when the time comes.I'd love a Polo. Can it be had for $5k?
But yes, I'd consider any electric Volkswagen if I were in the market for a new car and it would work for me.
My last new car has been ordered already, however. And it is diesel powered. Maybe some day in the future if a cheap EV Polo was to stumble my way for cheap I'd take a gander. I doubt I will be driving that long.
bizzle
Veteran Member
I anticipate three year old eGolfs will end up scrapped. We'll have an option of buying ours for 11k end of lease but I doubt we'll buy unless that's dropped to 6-8k.
There's no reason to buy it for any more money than that. We can just get another lease with the latest tech, at least double range, and payments less than buying.
Similarly, who would buy our off lease for 12k when they can just buy a brand new one for 16k-20k?
Those 200 range cars are going to be 100 miles at freeway speeds with a/c if we're lucky.
There's no reason to buy it for any more money than that. We can just get another lease with the latest tech, at least double range, and payments less than buying.
Similarly, who would buy our off lease for 12k when they can just buy a brand new one for 16k-20k?
Those 200 range cars are going to be 100 miles at freeway speeds with a/c if we're lucky.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
And some of us would rather not have payments at all.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
How unAmerican!
nicklockard
Torque Dorque
I used to have a pedal electric bike with lighting much like this it had a 48 volt removeable lead acid battery. It topped out at 12 mph w/o pedaling and 22 mph with pedaling. I could easily cruise level ground at 16.5 mph. Back then it only cost $675. With lithium battery technology, it would be much more apartment friendly.
I used to take the battery out to charge in my 2nd floor apartment sometimes. Occasionally I could charge it in the laundry room on ground level w/o having to take the battery out since the owner was cool with it.
Chris
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2000
- Location
- Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, USA
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I'm thinking more of this kind of electric bike! http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Not sure I'd ever get an electric bike, but if I did this one is appealing.
https://superpedestrian.com/
https://superpedestrian.com/
CraziFuzzy
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Location
- Jurupa Valley
- TDI
- '09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
My electric is only a little bit bigger than those bikes: http://bit.ly/29qg2xJ - though not by much.
Perfectreign
Veteran Member
Those are so cute. I pass by one several times a day as I take my dog for her walks.
I just want to pick it up and take it home. Unfortunately, I only have one hand since the other is holding my dog's leash.
kjclow
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2003
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
- TDI
- 2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Can't use it for either one of my current bikes. Won't work with disc brakes.
VeeDubTDI
Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2000
- Location
- Springfield, VA
- TDI
- ‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
I know! I love the little 500e.
CraziFuzzy
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Location
- Jurupa Valley
- TDI
- '09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
The thing is so much fun do drive - going to be hard to stay under my 10k/year lease...
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
My wife loves the 500. I do too. If Fiat sold the diesel version here I'd probably already have a 500-shaped hole in my bank account.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
If they sold the Twin Power one here I'd be tempted. 850cc would be excellent.
nicklockard
Torque Dorque
My wife loves the 500. I do too. If Fiat sold the diesel version here I'd probably already have a 500-shaped hole in my bank account.
I like the looks of them, but man they can't hold value. A 3 year old Fiat 500 Abarth edition goes for about 30% of its original retail price! What'w wrong with them?
South Coast Guy
Veteran Member
Reputation of Fiat.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
All the more reason to find a slightly used one then. Not as bad a drop as some other cars though. Trucks in particular, specifically the big fancy ones. We (our shop) just found a customer a 2015 Ram 3500, diesel short 4dr 4WD, that was $63k new in late 2014 (November in service date), and we got it to our customer for around $38k. It has 18k miles. So in a year and a half, it lost $25k of its value. That's insane. But that type truck, and those similar from Ford and GM, are big sellers.
I think the Cadillac Catera, Lincoln LS, the "fancy" Kia and Hyundai models (like the Equus and Cadenza), and of course the Volkswagen Phaeton, were historically pretty quick money burners in that regard, too.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Conversely, the interesting thing is that when my dad was looking for a 3/4 ton extended cab long bed 4WD, he found that at the low end trim levels, new was barely more expensive than a 5 year old one, once you accounted for financing and how much the dealers could deal. (This is with gas engines, mind you, not diesels.)
It sounds like it's the added options that lose resale value more than anything...
It sounds like it's the added options that lose resale value more than anything...
aja8888
Top Post Dawg
Latest Mercedes E vehicle:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KtnWtajUVwcEtabVZlaDhTMW8/view?pref=2&pli=1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KtnWtajUVwcEtabVZlaDhTMW8/view?pref=2&pli=1
El Dobro
Top Post Dawg
That's great, you can get replacement batteries at the local 7-Eleven.
CraziFuzzy
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2011
- Location
- Jurupa Valley
- TDI
- '09 JSW (GoneBack) - replaced with '15 Azera and '16 Fiat 500e.
That has always been the case. Options simply don't have near as much impact on the used market. Never have. At the end of the day, if the car is more than 2 years old, the only thing that matters is the model, the engine and transmission, and the miles.
oilhammer
Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Yep. The only thing in the pickup world that seems to hold much of its original value is the 4WD option. At least for a few years, anyway. That option may be around $2500 new, but after five years, often a 4WD truck will still be worth nearly that much more than an otherwise identical 2WD version would.
bubbagumpshrimp
Veteran Member
Yup. 4WD trucks are great, resale value wise. Hell...I'm looking at my old '01 F-150 Lariat SuperCrew 4WD on Craigslist at the moment. Literally my old truck that I traded in on my TDI (funny timing to see it pop-up).
I bought it in 2012 for $11k. It's for sale four years later for $10k. While I think it's listed a bit high, I think they'll probably get what they're asking, because it's only got 138k at this point, and it is clean. Like get compliments wherever you take it clean. ~$10k for a 16+ model year old truck, lol. Try that (1/3 residual value after 16+ years) with any other vehicle.
IndigoBlueWagon
TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
There are two Jetta Wagons for sale on this site now for $10K. Also priced high, IMO, but it can happen. Probably neither were over $20K new, both 14 years old.
MrSprdSheet
Veteran Member
For those still choosing to have a car, in Boston, there are plenty of parking spaces once you get closer to Rt128 (~17 miles out). The problem is parking downtown which averages $500/month, or justifying $4-6/day before boarding a train. Local news last night was saying ~$2,200/month is now avg 2bdrm rent (for the fashionable kids who don't want a car anymore). At some rate of rent increase, people will keep putting up with the >2hrs/day, ~25mph average speeds of their commutes. This is the domain of PHEV/BEV and automation.
1st house was a 2-fam. No question I would build/buy and install 240V charging, if I got back into renting out a unit(s). For the very reason you cite. MA is a CARB state, like >dozen are these days. That means 10 year warranties on EV batteries, state incentives, and public charging initiatives. EV's will continue to become more popular, and charging would practically guarantee tenants.
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