Broken engine mount

Well I drive into work today and as I was pulling into the parking lot I heard a weird sound from the engine compartment. as I was almost parked the engine sputtered and I immediately turned it off. I pushed it into the spot and looked at it after work. the entire engine is drooping on the passenger side and the top forward engine mount is broke. Im not sure how bad. Are there any diagrams to look at that can help me determine how bad? Does the mount bolt horizontally into the engine? any help would be appreciated

Not a good thing... that is the timing belt side of the motor. Those motor mount bolts are stretch bolts and are not supposed to be re-used during a timing belt job. Has the car had a timing belt job recently? Broken mount/bolts indicates routinely poor recent dealer work... or very bad luck.

When you say you're not sure how bad it is, can you see a broken mount or broken bolts? Either way, its time for a timing belt examination if you're dealing with this failure.

What he said.

All is not lost. You will probably be needing one of these.

Van Gogh Broken Engine Block Fix Kit for VW and Audi
http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=468

well the guy I bought if from was pretty cheep so i can immage he reused bolts. He did say he had done the timing belt recently. It looks as if the back tab off the motor is broken from the threaded hole out at an upward angle. will the kit mentioned in the previous posts fix this for the 1.9L TDI in a 2000 jetta? I did locate the bolt that bolts into the timing belt side of the engine and it has snapped off in the hole. Should I pull the engine for this job? Is pulling these engines easy? Thanks much for the help guys

No need to pull the engine, just support the engine with a jack remove the old parts, install the van gogh fix and use new bolts this time.

Did it cause damage to the timing belt? If so, you will probably need to pull the head.

At any rate, make sure that you get a 100K timing belt kit with it from one of our vendors!!!!

Just so you know what the Van Gogh engine fix is.....

http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Categories?category=Block+Repair+Kit

I would replace the TB components as you don't know if anything was damaged during the engine fall.

Sorry this happen to you welcome to the club. The odds are the timing belt job was done on the cheap.Your best bet is to get a complete T/B kit and water pump with a steel impellor.If you help look up a gurue

Welcome to the club. (the van gogh fix club that is)

Thanks for the help. I am going to assume that the engine mount break is common then?

viersam@gmail.com said:

Thanks for the help. I am going to assume that the engine mount break is common then?

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If the three bolts that attach the engine mount bracket to the engine aren't tight enough (especially the lower one) it usually leads to this problem. Also the two bolts that attach the engine mount to the engine mount bracket sometime let loose if they are not torqued properly or (in most cases) the threads in the bracket are damaged. If that happens it doesn't break the engine block but it can still get ugly.

Contrary to popular belief not replacing the engine mount bolts won't cause the engine to fall out as long as everything is in good condition and torqued properly.

Matthew_S said:

If the three bolts that attach the engine mount bracket to the engine aren't tight enough (especially the lower one) it usually leads to this problem. Also the two bolts that attach the engine mount to the engine mount bracket sometime let loose if they are not torqued properly or (in most cases) the threads in the bracket are damaged. If that happens it doesn't break the engine block but it can still get ugly.

Contrary to popular belief not replacing the engine mount bolts won't cause the engine to fall out as long as everything is in good condition and torqued properly.

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Matt, these are stretch bolts. I've seen them re-used and broken off. Hell I know of one car, original owner no accidents, that had the bolts to bolt bracket fail and the engine fell.... Out of the blue and 20k before the scheduled 1st t-belt change.

oldpoopie said:

Matt, these are stretch bolts. I've seen them re-used and broken off. Hell I know of one car, original owner no accidents, that had the bolts to bolt bracket fail and the engine fell.... Out of the blue and 20k before the scheduled 1st t-belt change.

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All I can say is that I know people who have worked on VW for 10+ years and reused those bolts thousands of times on TDIs, 1.8ts, VR6 and 2.0s (they all use the same bolt) without a single known failure.

Also, the bolts are class 10.9 bolts and are torqued to 74 lb-ft. At that torque (and even the old torque/angle method) the bolts don't yield and are still well within their elastic zone. I'm not saying they can't ever fail but I'm convinced that simply reusing them will not cause a failure by itself.

Have you seen one where both bolts were snapped off? Or do you usually see one bolt broken and the other pulled out?

The one that broke from factory was one busted, one stripped out. Regardless, its cheap insurance. I've never seen a failure when the bolts were replaced. Is it because the people using new bolts are paying special attention to the tightening proceedure, or because of the new bolts themselves..... Who knows.

Loctite blue and tight enough.... no issues.

I can't think of one reason to use loctite on these big 'ol stretch bolts...

Sc0 said:

Loctite blue and tight enough.... no issues.

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Locktite won't do squat if the bolt snaps off due to it not being replaced.

oldpoopie said:

The one that broke from factory was one busted, one stripped out. Regardless, its cheap insurance. I've never seen a failure when the bolts were replaced. Is it because the people using new bolts are paying special attention to the tightening proceedure, or because of the new bolts themselves..... Who knows.

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Every one I've ever seen had one broken and one pulled out. This points to a thread failure in the engine mount bracket which is quite common and I believe the reason they reduced the torque spec. I agree that it's cheap insurance to replace the bolts and I'm not advocating not replacing them. I always replace them but I don't lose any sleep over it If I see a car that has had them reused.

how well does the Van Gogh work? will it hold? the bolt in the back of the engine broke the tab on the engine and the one on the timing belt side sheered off. I elected to pull the engine because I have another car to drive for now and I would like to become more familiar with the engine. My last question is what else should I do now that the engine is pulled? Timing belt has 20k on it. car has 220k. should I have my turbo inspected? can I check it? I figure now that it is out I should take the time to get it in tip top shape

I have hundreds of Van Gogh customers and there have been zero issues with them holding. They are installed on 2.0 Gas, 1.8T, all kinds of TDI's in many different countries. They are installed on Seats, Skodas, Audis and VW's. Pulling your engine is not at all necessary to install the Van Gogh bracket. Bolt it on and drive it.

Quick question!

Sorry to drudge this up from the past but it is immediately relevant.

I had my timing belt replaced at 94k miles at a prominent local shop. Now, at 99k miles, my passenger side engine mount broke the block. I can feel the broken tab on the block and see the top large motor mount bolt still present and whole, however displaced. The existing motor mount is now pressing into the side of the timing belt cover and pulley. I just checked the work order and there is nothing about replacement mount hardware.

My questions, for the experienced VW repairers, are these:

1) How likely is it that the timing belt replacement done ~4k miles ago was the cause of this failure?

2) If it is highly likely, how should I go about requesting assistance/compensation for fixing the new problems from the repair shop?

3) Is it likely that they will fix it or compensate me for their mistake (if it likely is their mistake)?

Thank you for your opinions/help! I'm very bummed about my Dub.

-Danny

(Oh, I ordered a Van Gogh fix and it was shipped quite promptly! Thanks Dieselgeek!)

the three bolts can be reused , I always use some blue loctite on them.
if one is not tight , the load is taken by the other two and that can break them

Dimitri16V said:

the three bolts can be reused , I always use some blue loctite on them.
if one is not tight , the load is taken by the other two and that can break them

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You're not worried that the loctite will lubricate the threads? I thought that lubricating threads when applying a torque was a mistake... it's supposed to increase the actual torque applied which can damage the block or the bolts.

The Bentley manual makes no mention of loctite during this part of the procedure, although I admit it is full of procedures that can be improved upon and/or need correction.

Why use loctite when the bolt performs a completely reliable cold-weld at the correct torque spec?

corrado tdi said:

I have hundreds of Van Gogh customers and there have been zero issues with them holding. They are installed on 2.0 Gas, 1.8T, all kinds of TDI's in many different countries. They are installed on Seats, Skodas, Audis and VW's. Pulling your engine is not at all necessary to install the Van Gogh bracket. Bolt it on and drive it.

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My original engine mount broke yesterday. The bottom bolt sheared off flat in the hole. Do I have to remove this to use the bracket? Looked for a "how to" on this but didn't see one. Does one exist? Just want to know how labor intensive it is. Thanks.

The VanGogh bracket will get you going again!

Thanks for the call Jim. I'm placing my order this morning.

Just wondering, before the engine fell, were you driving it and notice that when you touched the throttle, and released it, you would feel a pop or a jolt in the drivertrain? I kinda have that problem when I touch the throttle hard or soft, that I get a pop/jolt and a half second delay in response sometimes.

That's something worth taking a good look at before something breaks.

manual_tranny said:

You're not worried that the loctite will lubricate the threads? I thought that lubricating threads when applying a torque was a mistake... it's supposed to increase the actual torque applied which can damage the block or the bolts.

The Bentley manual makes no mention of loctite during this part of the procedure, although I admit it is full of procedures that can be improved upon and/or need correction.

Why use loctite when the bolt performs a completely reliable cold-weld at the correct torque spec?

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you are overreacting like alot of people here about those "always replace " bolts. The 3 bolts of the engine mount bracket DO NOT need to be replaced, just need to be toqrued enough. One of them is harder to tighten due to space constraints and shops just leave it loose ( happened to me ).
Loctite medium strength is a good idea on a diesel car