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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, wheels, type discussion should be put into the "Upgrades (non TDI Engine related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer.

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Old February 11th, 2011, 09:41   #46
Alex22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieseleux View Post
Do you work on edge of valve port?
This is the place where his most important gain for low lift.
Dieseleux
Are you referring to the narrowing angles under the seat (angles steeper than 45*) leading into the port? If that is the area that you are referring to then yes, I've spent the last few nights working on that area.... Results ranging from big gains to big losses depending on the changes I made.
~Alex
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Old February 12th, 2011, 00:21   #47
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I have never seen or even heard of a port who's port potential (flowing the runner with the guide plugged off and no intake valve) will flow less than the head when the valve is installed. After cutting the seat to take a 37mm I lost flow in some areas and didn't improve the upper lift numbers by much. After trying a few different valve seat cutters and combinations of bowl/seat throat cutters I was barley able to get an improvement of 3 CFM at usable lift increments. For the final test of the night I checked the port potential and was very surprised to see that the flow with no valve in was 3.2 CFM lower than the best flow with the valve. The only explanation that I can think of at the moment for that is due to the swirl shape of the port the intake valve is needed to stabilize the flow of air into the bore.

Results:

This is the best that I was able to get while using an OEM 36mm valve, I think I can get more out of the port after I start over on a fresh port.


I installed a 37mm intake and the only change made to the port were the valve seat profiles and depths. The port needs to be enlarged quite a bit in order to take full advantage of a larger valve. Unless I am able to increase the flow without porting through to the water jacket in the critical areas larger intake valves may be unnecessary from a cost to gain standpoint. I don't have enough information at the moment to make the final call on valve size. The port has only been opened up a total of 5.8cc's which is not much in the porting world. The valve does not have a reduced stem but when I continue testing with this larger valve I do plan on reducing the stem diameter, from what I can see so far it should help once the port is opened up.



Here are the results for the OEM valve vs the 37mm valve, this will give a better idea of why I said that larger intake valves might not be necessary. Again, there was no work done in the port after the larger seat was installed, only seat cutters and the valve depth in the head were changed between tests. Once the port is enlarged in the right areas flow should increase.


At least I can say that after 40+ hours of work into this port I've picked out the seat cutter I want to use on the intakes and how I want to reshape the OEM intake valve. I keep forgetting to bring in my stock AHL intake and my brother's modified D24 intake manifold to see what effect they have on flow and swirl.

~Alex
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Old February 14th, 2011, 23:28   #48
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More testing results...

This port went awfully turbulent after ~.300 lift, but it had some good flow numbers. I could watch the manometer go up as the swirl meter went down and then it would swing the other way. The computer takes 10 readings and then averages them to get the flow reading. I average the swirl meter readings as well.



I spent a few more hours working on this port today and overall the bigger valves are just making a complex port even more difficult to work on. Only spending 30 seconds with the die grinder is able to add 20 CFM on the top end flow when done in the correct spot. Duplicating this will be a challenge and I may just let the CNC machine take care of the porting.


~Alex
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Old February 15th, 2011, 07:08   #49
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some really nice work here! drop me a line if you want any PD heads for porting practice.

Ryan
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Old February 15th, 2011, 13:49   #50
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some really nice work here! drop me a line if you want any PD heads for porting practice.
Ryan
PM sent.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 00:04   #51
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With another dozen or so tests I have only been able to break 150 CFM using a 37mm intake valve without the flow going horribly turbulent at just about all lift points. I did not get a new volume number for the intake port but I can say that it is significantly larger than before without a large gain in flow. I will have to get a new volume measurement in order to compare the percent increase in flow to the percent increase in port volume.

I do have a stock ALH and a cut down long runner D24 intake that I'm going to be testing on this head before I move to a new port.

One thing that is worth mentioning is that I acid ported an intake manifold for my friend's turbo 5 cylinder gasoline Volvo engine and he said that the boost levels were more consistent when he got into high RPMs. Many who port heads for forced induction engines believe a large port volume is better for building a reservoir behind the valve for better high RPM performance. Since "high RPMs" for a TDI is well within the normal driving range for a gasoline engine a smaller, higher velocity and higher swirl port may perform better than a larger port with slightly higer flow numbers but lower flow and swirl numbers.

~Alex
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 22:19   #52
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This little guy showed up the other day.


It's an ultrasonic transducer with the correct frequency for testing aluminum. Hooray for non destructive testing.

~Alex
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 11:25   #53
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Very nice work, 30% improvement on the 8V VE head is a big accomplishment! I'd love to see one of your worked heads paired with one of Shorty's 11m lift race cams and flogged on the dyno.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 11:39   #54
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By the way, compare your stock head cfm numbers with that of Whitbread's. Your numbers seem to be 10-13% higher between .200-.400" than his for stock heads. I have yet another measurement set that I'll send to you via e-mail.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 11:42   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex22 View Post
It's an ultrasonic transducer with the correct frequency for testing aluminum. Hooray for non destructive testing.

~Alex
That's a fun little tool! Don't be surprised when you find very thin walls on the intake ports, there isn't much meat in some areas. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=266569
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Old February 24th, 2011, 23:10   #56
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That's a fun little tool! Don't be surprised when you find very thin walls on the intake ports, there isn't much meat in some areas. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=266569
I used those pictures for references when I started porting, thanks for posting them. After a few weeks of testing the same port it can get hard to keep track of just how much has been removed which makes the ultrasonic tester great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIMeister View Post
By the way, compare your stock head cfm numbers with that of Whitbread's. Your numbers seem to be 10-13% higher between .200-.400" than his for stock heads. I have yet another measurement set that I'll send to you via e-mail.

There are a few big differences in the methods and setups for the flow testing done by Matt that you referenced. Matt used a 4 inch bore (not sure what he used to block the water jackets though) and no clay radius leading into the intake port. I used a 80mm bore and a large clay radius for my testing, the different testing parameters void the comparisons.
I started over on a new port today and used the opportunity to run a test that was similar to Matt's. I left off the swirl data because we are only comparing flow at the moment.



One explanation for the differences in flow at mid lift can be that Matt was reading the manometer himself and recording the data and the bench that I am using has a FlowCom and Port Flow Analyzer hooked up. The flowcom works with the computer software to take 10 readings in a row and then average them with the push of a button. The airflow at mid lifts is turbulent in the stock port and I can watch the manometer rise and fall as the sound and swirl change. Matt' do you remember if you recorded the high or low readings or did you take an average?

~Alex
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Old February 25th, 2011, 23:49   #57
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I flowed my stock port again today using lift increments of 2mm to compare to MarkoP's stock flow numbers with and 82mm bore but did not say if he used a clay radius. IIRC Marko is also using a SF600 flow bench.


I spend the rest of the night trying out different intake seat cutters and reshaping the top of the valve and was able to pick up up to 10CFM without the swirl taking a big loss, It's just too late to post up entire flow sheets. I should have time over the weekend.

I have also decided against using the clay radius for the remainder of the flow testing in favor of a leftover chunk of a D24 intake manifold. Moving air has momentum and the standard way of flow testing a cylinder head using a large radius works great for a conventional engine when the intake port opening faces the plenum (V8 and V6 engines.) In our case the plenum is directly above the head and the moving air's momentum doesn't want to make the corner. The closer I can make the testing conditions to what the head will see on an running engine the more validity the results will have, with the ultimate validity numbers being on the dyno with EGT, boost and MAF readings.

~Alex
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Old April 5th, 2011, 21:17   #58
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I eventually poked a hole into water on the previous test port with the larger valve installed so I started over on a new port and here's where I am at the moment, still a work in progress though. For these tests I also have an injector and a glow plug installed instead of blocking the holes off with clay or tape from the outside of the head to make the tests as accurate as possible. The flow is off from some of my previous tests, but the flow is much more stable than before.







These showed the other day, Thanks to RyanP and Chapelhill. The DHL driver gave me a strange look when I told him that there was a head and a half in the package he was carrying.


I haven't had a chance to get either of these on the flowbench yet but I will update when I have some info. The exhaust port does feel better than the ones in the VE style head and flow improvements have been documented by a few on the forum.

It looks like I will be able to use my brother's MK4 Jetta to get some dyno numbers once I finish up a head.

~Alex
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Old April 5th, 2011, 21:27   #59
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No TDI cams have more than 0.435" of lift, so it would seem more productive for overall performance to optimise the flow, velocity and swirl below this figure than to get a maximum headline cfm number and percent gains with lift be damned. JMO.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 22:59   #60
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No TDI cams have more than 0.435" of lift, so it would seem more productive for overall performance to optimise the flow, velocity and swirl below this figure than to get a maximum headline cfm number and percent gains with lift be damned. JMO.

I agree with you're first statement but the flow at valve lift higher than where the cam will ever lift to is necessary check the port's stability. In a running engine the pressure differences can be much greater than 28" of water which means more flow and higher velocities in the port. Opening the valve past the maximum cam lift will continue to increase the flow and therefore velocity until the valve cannot be opened any more. The reason that I cannot test at pressures over 28" of water is that the swirl will spin the swirl meter over its maximum rating.

~Alex
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