Teens waiting later to drive.

cmitchell

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Yesterday, one of my students failed the written test for the learner's permit ... for the 2nd time ...
 

RNDDUDE

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Funny dialogue in this thread.

My daughter failed the written exam before she took it...........LoL

Let me explain, Miss PITA, know-it-all INSISTED she did not need her birth certificate as part of the paperwork to take the test. I tried to be a patient, understanding Dad and explain/reason with her that this was not the case and you need the birth certificate.

After her continued protests that she did NOT need the certificate I angrily drove her to the DMV any way to prove a point.

After standing in line and about 20 seconds after her telling the clerk hello, she was asked for her birth certificate : )

It was a quiet ride home.........LoL
You've got my vote for parent of the month!
 

migbro

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The evidence thus far is showing that the graduated license programs put in place by most states is simply pushing the age of first licensing back a couple years, and also pushing back the big bulge of teen driving accidents a few years.......

.......So it used to be the biggest lump of accidents was kids aged 16-18, basically wrecking cars when they were immature and inexperienced drivers. Now these graduated license restrictions put such a hassle on parents and kids that a lot of them simply aren't doing it. With families often having both parents working, who has time to spend 50 hours (longer than a standard work week) behind the wheel with their kids? Including something like 20 hours of night driving? Not a lot. So the result is now that kids simply wait to turn 18 where the just walk in and get a license without all the hassle of instruction required. And the result from that is now we've pushed the bunch with the most accidents up to the 18-20 age bracket because we're just delaying the inevitable.
All so true. As usual I agree with everything you write. We have graduated licensing in Massachusetts. I logged over 50 hours driving with my 16 year old son. Doesn't sound too bad until you try it, but it's a major commitment. It didn't help that he inherited his driving skills from his mother's side of the family. During that 50 plus hours I had to grab the wheel several times and steer from the passenger seat. The worst occasion was when he lost control of my truck on an icy road and I had to control a fishtailing skid with traffic coming in the opposite direction while yelling at my son...."Off the gas! Off the gas!"

Two weeks and four days after getting his junior operator's license he destroyed my truck in a single vehicle accident. It's a miracle he wasn't hurt as he hit a large tree at over 50 mph. Even a broken leg would have changed his future as he's about to attend a very good college as a recruited athlete.

Massachusetts keeps statistics on teen drivers. Almost a third of 16 year old drivers have a serious accident. I have very mixed feelings about all this. I have never wrecked a vehicle or had a serious accident. When I was a kid I was contemptuous of the "rich kids" who wrapped Daddy's car around a tree and as a reward received another one. Now my son is one of those kids.
 

sgoldste01

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When I was a kid I was contemptuous of the "rich kids" who wrapped Daddy's car around a tree and as a reward received another one. Now my son is one of those kids.
Oh, you provided your son with another car after he destroyed the first one? What was his excuse for hitting that tree? Bad weather? Too much speed? Distracted by having friends in the car? Texting? The tree jumped in his path?
 

migbro

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Oh, you provided your son with another car after he destroyed the first one? What was his excuse for hitting that tree? Bad weather? Too much speed? Distracted by having friends in the car? Texting? The tree jumped in his path?
Yes, I did. This one's a Volvo with lots of air bags.
 

aja8888

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As hard as it gets for teenagers to get past the state licensing requirements and written/road tests, the skills they really lack are comprehension of what's going on around them when they are behind the wheel and the ability to perceive what other drivers have the potential to do in that circumstance.

Both my daughters had several accidents during their formative driving years, some minor, some major. Now at over 29, years old, they have become seasoned and safe drivers. My neighbor who has two boys and a girl, all just recently with fresh licenses, is having a time with this situation. All are good kids, but the carnage of smashed and dented up cars is evident in his driveway (or brought home on a hook).

Gotta love those "smart phones"....
 

sgoldste01

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Yes, I did. This one's a Volvo with lots of air bags.
Volvos are safe cars. But I'd still like to know how he explained the tree to you. Without a good explanation, I would have taken his driving privileges rather than buying another car for him to trash.

Boy, to self: "Gee, an accident got my car upgraded from a truck to a Volvo. Maybe the next accident will get me into a BMW or Mercedes!"
 

sgoldste01

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Gotta love those "smart phones"....
If my kid got into an accident due to phone usage, that would be the end of his/her driving privileges in any of my cars. That's a one-strike-you're-out way of ending the game for me.

You think I'm kidding? I'm not. I can understand foul weather. I can understand if someone runs a red light and T-bones you. But if you get into an accident because of a phone, that's it, you're done driving my cars. End of story.
 

migbro

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Volvos are safe cars. But I'd still like to know how he explained the tree to you. Without a good explanation, I would have taken his driving privileges rather than buying another car for him to trash.
Yes, that's one approach. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Older people, like me, tend to see this as a moral issue. When I was a kid you didn't damage or destroy your stuff because if you did it was no longer available to you. So carelessness or thoughtlessness was seen as a moral issue. But it's not really a moral issue, it's an economic issue that was framed as a moral issue as a way of controlling behavior.

My son is a really great kid. He's done just about everything right so far in his life. He's learned a very important lesson from his accident. I don't think it's right to impose my 1970s poor-kid values on him in this situation.
 

sgoldste01

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I don't buy into the moral issue vs. economic issue argument. To me, driving is a privilege, not a right. Not only is your own safety on the line, but so is the safety of all around you. Not only is experience (hours behind the wheel) a factor, but so is maturity. Not all 16-18 year olds are mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving with safety in mind.

Not being able to avoid a stout tree doesn't do much to prove to me that a kid is capable of protecting his safety and the safety of others. Just because your son is safe in his new Volvo doesn't mean that those around him are safe too.

Good luck.
 

migbro

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I don't buy into the moral issue vs. economic issue argument. To me, driving is a privilege, not a right. Not only is your own safety on the line, but so is the safety of all around you. Not only is experience (hours behind the wheel) a factor, but so is maturity. Not all 16-18 year olds are mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving with safety in mind.

Not being able to avoid a stout tree doesn't do much to prove to me that a kid is capable of protecting his safety and the safety of others. Just because your son is safe in his new Volvo doesn't mean that those around him are safe too.

Good luck.
I've always made my own luck. That's probably why this looks more like an economic issue to me now.
 

sgoldste01

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I've always made my own luck. That's probably why this looks more like an economic issue to me now.
This sounds like a comment made by a person who is making a lot of money and is proud of it, and therefore finds it easy to repeatedly buy cars for his kids. Congratulations. I'm happy for you.

I make good money too. I could repeatedly buy cars for my kids too. That doesn't mean that I would, if reckless carelessness was the cause of my kid's accident.

I agree that, to a large extent, people make their own luck. But if the next time your son doesn't hit a tree but instead runs over a mom pushing her baby in a stroller, how much of an opportunity to make his own luck do you think that baby will have?
 

bhtooefr

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Yes, I did. This one's a Volvo with lots of air bags.
Glad I don't live in MA.

If he absolutely needed a car to get around, you should have gotten him a Geo Metro or Ford Festiva.

Light enough that they'll cause less damage to the other guy, unsafe enough to scare your kid into driving safely.
 

migbro

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This sounds like a comment made by a person who is making a lot of money and is proud of it, and therefore finds it easy to repeatedly buy cars for his kids. Congratulations. I'm happy for you.

I make good money too. I could repeatedly buy cars for my kids too. That doesn't mean that I would, if reckless carelessness was the cause of my kid's accident.

I agree that, to a large extent, people make their own luck. But if the next time your son doesn't hit a tree but instead runs over a mom pushing her baby in a stroller, how much of an opportunity to make his own luck do you think that baby will have?
Well, as I said above, this is a situation about which I've thought a lot. One of my conclusions is that it does not make sense to artificially impose my own (relative) childhood poverty on my son.

I'm curious as to why you're so emotionally invested in a situation you know almost nothing about.
 
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That Guy

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One of the big problems...but far from the only one...is that driving is new to them. They have to put thought into doing things that we just take for granted. Like where's the signal light, where's the brake pedal, judging the distances to lines and objects around the vehicle, etc.

I have to say that learning to drive on a farm was a huge help to me. I could drive around fields all day without having to worry about other drivers, obstructions, pedestrians, etc.

By the time I started driving on roads, or in the city, I was very comfortable with how to drive. I could spend more of my time concentrating on the rules of the road, and what was going on around me.

Personally I think everyone should have to spend some time getting used to how to drive a vehicle....maybe in large empty lots on Sunday mornings or something...before they get thrown into traffic. This would reduce the stress, and increase the fun... and be safer for everyone involved.

Another benefit that I'm glad I had, was learning how to get out of a skid or spin. Again this was usually done in a field...usually after a fresh snowfall. It was pretty slippery and didn't take much to put it into a 180 to 360 spin. But after doing that a few times it becomes second nature to correct for it. Very good training that may have saved my bacon a few times over the years.
 

sgoldste01

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I'm curious as to why you're so emotionally invested in a situation you know almost nothing about.
Only because your relative childhood poverty has absolutely no bearing on whether your son is mature enough to bear the responsibility of protecting himself and everyone else in his vicinity.

A parent's financial ability to provide his child with _____ (fill in the blank) does not mean that the parent should necessarily provide it.
 
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migbro

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Only because your relative childhood poverty has absolutely no bearing on whether your son is mature enough to bear the responsibility of protecting himself and everyone else in his vicinity.

A parent's financial ability to provide his child with _____ (fill in the blank) does not mean that the parent should necessarily provide it.
In your opinion.

I look forward to next Sunday's sermon.
 

RNDDUDE

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I think one of, if not THE biggest problem with new drivers, is that they think that once they learn how to OPERATE THE VEHICLE, by default that makes them a COMPETENT DRIVER. I thought the same thing at age 16. As all seasoned drivers know from experience, learning how to operate the vehicle (start, accelerate, shift, turn stop, etc.) is only a fraction of is required to be a good driver. As a parent, that is the message you should pound into their head repeatidly. For example, I have been on enough light airplane trips as a passenger to have enough rudementary knowledge to be able to fly the plane level if the pilot keeled over dead, but I am by no means a competent pilot.
 
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roadhard1960

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One parent I know took his child to the avoidance class taught by off duty or retired highway patrol. Another parent's child has been driving under supervision with Grandpa, Mom, Dad and Aunt. I think in a year of driving she just passed her first supervised session. All the other sessions she speeds, she tailgates, she improperly signals, she .... Who knows when she will get the chance to take her driving test but she has all the legally required hours of supervised driving.

As a child in Ohio I used to enjoy driving sideways in the winter in my 66 Beetle in subdivisons with rolling or no curbs. I have lost that skill as the FWD cars not so much fun plus it does not snow much in Georgia. The only rear wheel drive that was fun was my beat to heck, totalled twice before I got it 78 Toyota short bed 2wd that was fun to go mudding in. I did total one Rabbit proably 20 years after I got my license.

My wife was was driving our 87 Toyota PU that was getting broken in at 287,000 miles when a high school kid driving home from school (2 miles from school) rear ended and totaled it. Second vehicle the high schooler totaled. His Dad picked him up and said "I guess you will be driving your mother's car." Maybe he should walk to school or ride the bus for the rest of the year.

So I ride a bicycle on the road as do a lot of my friends. A child in a car with a bunch of airbags does nothing to protect me or my friends. Airbags do nothing for walkers either.
 

bhtooefr

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That's why we need German-level anal training and testing to drive a real car, IMO.

(Now, the trick will be, it'll have to be heavily subsidized to work, although if cheap, lightweight, unsafe get-to-work cars that can be driven on a lighter license are readily available, it might actually work at the full multiple-thousands-of-dollars cost.)
 

That Guy

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I've heard that in Japan it's much harder to get a license. They take it very seriously there.

I think the enforcement was better too.

I wonder how their accident rates compare to ours.
 

velociT

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I think it's hard for young people to understand the extent of forces involved in a collision. When I was 17 I really didn't. I took driving seriously then, but I didn't fully appreciate how wrong it can go in 1 second.

It's actually interesting though that now kids are driving later. It has to be a side affect of the economy, because kids these days are at an all time low in maturity. About 15 years ago when I was in HS, the school district had to buy a neighboring parking lot because every kid that was 16 or older was driving.

I recently taught a friends younger brother to drive, and the first thing I did was scare him on a canyon road. Did some under steer/over steer and showed him how quick you can lose control.
 

McBrew

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When I was 16 aa back in '92, pretty much all of my friends rushed it to get their licenses and buy some junker. My first car was a 1983 240D that I paid for myself. The day I took my driving test (and passed the first time), I left the MVA (DMV) and went straight to work... Delivering Chinese food! I lived out in the country and put about 25,000 miles per year on my car. In fact, instill put about the same mileage on my car... But I am just getting ready to buy a house that is only 2 miles from work, so that should change soon!

When I started driving, my insurance was about $100 a month and diesel was about $1.10 a gallon (although I paid as little as $0.79 once or twice). Now it can cost me $70 to fill up the Outback! I can't imagine being 16 and paying today's prices for gas.

Back in those days, I was a bit of a tech geek and also made decent money for a 16-17 year old. I had a cell phone back then, but nobody else did. Some of my friends had pagers, but nobody had a smart phone with a $90/month bill. Nobody had an Internet bill. I can understand why a lot of kids these days are not thrilled with the idea of driving a car.
 

2004Nick

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My "learner' permit @ age 13 in Texas--full unrestricted a year later. In them days beer
was under $6 for a flat case of 25! It's a miracle I survived, but I was a good driver by
then as my DAD taught me good (On Slide Road in Lubock: well named because of it's
extreme crown and slick clay) Even the JUNIOR HIGH parking lots were full of kid's cars
in them days. EVERYBODY was driving (FAST) by age 14. Kept the cops busy. Gas was
17 Cents/gallon in the price wars.
 

slamhouse

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It's actually interesting though that now kids are driving later. It has to be a side affect of the economy, because kids these days are at an all time low in maturity. .
Back in the day, you could disipline your kids with a belt of a spatula even in public without being arrested. Nowadays, you can't lay a finger on your kids or even yell at them or call them names without serving time...

The maturity has dropped as the lack of disipline grows higher.

This trend will only get worse as time goes on...
 

cmitchell

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Back in the day, you could disipline your kids with a belt of a spatula even in public without being arrested. Nowadays, you can't lay a finger on your kids or even yell at them or call them names without serving time...

The maturity has dropped as the lack of disipline grows higher.

This trend will only get worse as time goes on...
Those with effective parenting skills are perfectly capable of disciplining their children without using a spatula or a belt or calling them names. I'd suggest NOT using the above methods of "discipline" if you want to be truly respected by your kids. Being an effective parent doesn't involve being a tyrant. Parents are supposed to love, nurture and build up their children ... not beat the crap out of them & put them down by calling them names to get compliance.
 
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