Do you think VW will upgrade older cars to urea injection?

AFAICT when running in "dyno" mode, or whatever you want to call the mode that it uses to squeak through the EPA test undetected, regens are disabled. That won't work in the real world and it means the solution isn't as simple as making it operate in "dyno" i.e. no regen all the time.

Given that other manufacturers (Mazda, Honda) who both have significant engineering resources were not able to meet EPA emission standards without SCR in vehicles of comparable size and weight suggests "not achievable". Likewise the fact that VW has switched to SCR for 2015 on suggests that the LNT was not a viable long term solution.

Now, whether VW negotiates something that is actually achievable and somehow makes up for the deficit in other ways ... is something for their negotiation team to deal with.

gmcjetpilot said:

No and No. No buyback, no urea, sorry. It's not either or, it's no to both.
There is a presumption in the OP's original question that a software only fix
only isn't going to work on Mk6's 2009-2014.
We know software only fix works (which is how it was when it met the
EPA standards).

Click to expand...

We know none of that; which you would know already if you'd read the thread.

gmcjetpilot said:

We know what the effect is, because people have figured out how to turn
the defeat mode off and drive with the compliant software running. The loss
on the MK6 TDI's we know is about half second 0-60mph times and overall
loss of fuel economy of 3-4 mpg.

Click to expand...

We know none of that; which you would know already if you'd read the thread.

gmcjetpilot said:

VW isn't obligated to give us MPG more than sticker and 0.5 second
time difference in 0-60 mpg is insignificant. How VW addresses the loss
of performance (not significant) and MPG, that is still above sticker, I don't
know. They don't have to do squat.

Click to expand...

Of course they do. People didn't buy these cars because they drove sorta-kinda-like they wanted... They bought them for how they drove when tested

VW lied and cheated; this isn't the fault of people who bought the car, it's the fault of VW...



And .5 seconds is a huge difference... What are you talking about...?

gmcjetpilot said:

No and No. No buyback, no urea, sorry. It's not either or, it's no to both.

There is a presumption in the OP's original question that a software only fix
only isn't going to work on Mk6's 2009-2014.

We know software only fix works (which is how it was when it met the
EPA standards).

We know what the effect is, because people have figured out how to turn
the defeat mode off and drive with the compliant software running. The loss
on the MK6 TDI's we know is about half second 0-60mph times and overall
loss of fuel economy of 3-4 mpg.

We also know the STICKER on the cars when we bought them had
VERY LOW MPG which we all exceed. Even with a loss of fuel economy
of 5% to 8%, we still do as good or better than STICKER....

VW isn't obligated to give us MPG more than sticker and 0.5 second
time difference in 0-60 mpg is insignificant. How VW addresses the loss
of performance (not significant) and MPG, that is still above sticker, I don't
know. They don't have to do squat.

It is my speculation they will offer one or more of the following.
- Money to owners for increased fuel expense
- Coupon to owners for discount on future VW purchase
- Extended exhaust/turbo warranty (DPF/NOX/Turbo life maybe shorter)
- Nothing - the $1000 goodwill is all we get.

There are always individual remedies (lawsuit). Me personally I am not
getting the recall done, and therefore I am out nothing. I don't need
or want urea or buyback. My car worth far more to me. I own it outright,
it's in very excellent condition, low miles. I can't replace it for what VW
would give me.

I like my car just fine. Be happy, drive more and relax.... it will be Ok,
and no one is going to or got physically hurt. This is not like cars that
had runaway throttles, airbags that don't work, airbags that made metal
shrapnel... etc... It is just a few MPG, and a little loss in acceleration
you'll never notice. I don't know why people are so anxious about
this. We are literally in the drivers seat. Drive and let it work out.
It may take a year or two or three to work out. Hang on for the ride
and relax or get off before you have a stroke.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure where these numbers are coming from. Regardless, I have a similar opinion as to what I'm going to do with my car. I have 120k on it and its been paid off. I have no plan on going in for a reflash or for a system to be installed. However, if there was a decent by back, I might consider that. What you fail to realize is, a lot of people bought this car as a "clean" diesel. I however do not fit into this mold, but I think enough people do that it has to be an angle that is looked at. vw will lose these customers permanently (if not already) which potentially buy and get cars serviced at their dealerships. If there isn't a solution with possible reimbursements and/or incentives to stay in the brand, vw could have a significant hit in the long term.

dmarsingill said:

Because people on this forum feel entitled to something they don't deserve. They claim they will notice a drop in HP, and they think that they are guaranteed the MPG on the sticker.

Donald

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I think for all information floating around, some valid and some not, is somewhat actuate. Its mere physics/chemistry as to if you want to meet emission standards as you have to kick the equilibrium someplace, and its not toward performance and/or mpg. This is assuming a reflash and not an external system meant to neutralize the NOx emissions (Urea system). And as for the "entitled" aspect, I think there is some merit there as well. People bought these cars based on sticker prices. Of course you will have a (+/- %) based on the sticker that would fall into environmental factors, but it has to be somewhat accurate or that would be false advertising.

And, as far as performance goes, people bought these cars based on their test drive. Not on some arbitrary horsepower or torque number on some sticker, but on the performance they perceived when they drove the car.