Concerning startup issue

So, car was cold and sitting overnight.
Cranked up really quickly, like a healthily, but ran about 10 seconds and died. Similar to if I cutoff the key(but I hadn't) i simply restarted it, it was good to go for lunch with my folks.


NOW, I just stopped for fuel about 40 miles north of my parents house. Car ran well and started just fine for that trip BUT After fueling the car it was HARD to start. Like a totally dead battery, barely any rotation.

I shutoff the key, gave it a second to rest and retried. Same thing, barelly turned the motor over.

I pulled it out of gear, no clutch, and it restarted this time just fine.
I shut it off, put it in gear and tried again, it cranked right up.


Any suggestions on *** it is?

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Scan for codes. Also, does the glow plug light come on? if not, look at 109 relay.

Rule out the battery.

Could be aeration in the fuel return if it's bad enough.

ToxicDoc said:

Scan for codes. Also, does the glow plug light come on? if not, look at 109 relay.

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Glow plugs DO illuminate, as normally.
Also, it has the grey109(not that it makes it ruled out) i do have a spare if it happens again.

I'll scan for codes shortly. Car is now in Jax,FL resting at my brothers before a 90 mile trip to my girls grandparents.
I'll scan before we head that way.


I regularly(monthly or every other) put it onto my battery tender, gets to 100% before morning. Battery is from 2015, I would HOPE it is still good(with how i regularly keep it charged)

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Nero Morg said:

Could be aeration in the fuel return if it's bad enough.

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Fuel filter is less than two weeks old, mostly LONG(hours/several hundred miles) drives, short trips I would expect to notice that easier.. That is the Mickey mouse side of the filter hoses?
New Orings for sure. Looks like no leaks but I'll look much closer now.

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BobnOH said:

Rule out the battery.

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How would i rule that out?
Engine bay is warm, so volts would be higher than a resting cold battery.

Simply get it load tested at Oreillys or similar place?

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ItAintRodKnock said:

How would i rule that out?
Engine bay is warm, so volts would be higher than a resting cold battery.

Simply get it load tested at Oreillys or similar place?

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Click to expand...

Yes, load testing will rule out the battery. Can be done at any auto parts store or with a multimeter and a 2nd helper unless you have really long leads

KrashDH said:

Yes, load testing will rule out the battery. Can be done at any auto parts store or with a multimeter and a 2nd helper unless you have really long leads

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Sounds good.
Also, I'll scan codes at the next stop.


I'll post again with the outcome.

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ItAintRodKnock said:

How would i rule that out?
Engine bay is warm, so volts would be higher than a resting cold battery.

Simply get it load tested at Oreillys or similar place?

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Click to expand...

You can do some simple voltage tests, will give a clue, but not always conclusive.
If you have a hydrometer, you can check the specific gravity of each cell (after topping off and full trickle charge) or just get it load tested (easiest, if you can trust those amateurs at the parts stores).

BobnOH said:

You can do some simple voltage tests, will give a clue, but not always conclusive.
If you have a hydrometer, you can check the specific gravity of each cell (after topping off and full trickle charge) or just get it load tested (easiest, if you can trust those amateurs at the parts stores).

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Oh Bob, I trust no one. Especially the guys who ask what motor I have when tracking down the windshield wipers.



Car had no Codes
Auto-scan showed implausible dome light, but normal aside from that.

Car started fine a couple times and also had one extended crank, like its not getting fuel.
Ofcourse battery will be looked at closer, but it appears I likely have an air leak in a fuel hose somewhere.
Seems to cause problems only on "hot" start ups, like when it only gets a short break between drives. (I'll pay more attention if that is accurate, hot/cold difference)

We will see how the car starts in the morning after a nap at Decatur, TX lowes. Cross country trips with questionable problems sucks!

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Car cranked up with zero hesitation.


Timing is high; since a "trusted mechanic" did the timing belt(sitting at 70 i think i recall) could the timing cause this "hot startup" issue??

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A hot engine likes the timing on the advanced side. Only meant for you to rule out the battery. You're possibly on the right track with leaky hose. Especially air pipes, the big ones. Air to diesel ratio is critical.
With the tune you have, engine controls should be pretty dialed in. You're coming up with plenty of clues. Starts and dies after a few seconds, hard start when hot. Maybe take some readings on the various temperature sensors, simply read them all cold, then hot, look for wacky values.
As our cars get on in years, we're seeing more and more bad wires/connects, always fun to track down.

Cold weather? Could potentially be intercooler icing. Might explain the difficult crank. There are many threads on this subject

Car is home, ran well the whole time from TX to CO.

Tomorrow I'll dive into a few things and try to report back.
Have plenty of errands to do too..

I dont believe intercooler icing is the culprit, temps were not near freezing at the time(mostly noticed it in panhandle FL, Alabama-southern states)
Stopped shutting it off during fuel up to avoid actually being stranded if it is battery related.

I'll be clear, I did not get the battery tested yet. The car hasnt shown any electrical symptoms, so, gut feeling felt like its not that. I will also do this tomorrow just to confirm. I only assume its fine.

Probably go ahead and clean up all my ground wires this weekend, I havent a clue what it looks like under the battery tray/air filter housing. That would be ruled out at that point. Nearing any electric problem if it happen to be that. Although I dont think it is, with the age, it could be.

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Latest development:

Monday evening, I cranked the car up to move parking spaces. Car cranked right up, no hesitation or extended start. Car ran for about 60 seconds before it was reparked and left to rest overnight.

Tuesday morning, extended crank, seemed like a healthy starter and battery but was not getting fuel.
I primed two injectors, after alittle chugging it cranked up and ran well throughout the day.

Wednesday(today) frostheater ran for 3 hours prior to my morning startup.
Car needed an extended start, but came to life but was not smooth idling, like a single cylinder wasnt getting fuel?(assuming) it popped a code, VCDS screencap below. (Making the post before i shine a flashlight and inspect things)


Does this seem to be symptoms of the T fitting on the fuel filter?
Possibly a leak somewhere else?
All hoses from firewall to injection pump appear to have dry, clean clamps, indicating no leak?

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http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17656/P1248/004680


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ItAintRodKnock said:

...............................................
Does this seem to be symptoms of the T fitting on the fuel filter?
Possibly a leak somewhere else?..................................

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Yes it does, but we can't interweb tell where it might be leaking. Could also be why the code lit. Maybe test fuel piping with low air pressure, in sections to isolate.

Pop the tee fitting off and lube it up generously with Vaseline and put back together.
Let it sit over night after you’ve run it for 10 minutes to get all the air out and see how it does the next morning.
If it fires right up...got you found it.......if not move on to another item.

BobnOH said:

Yes it does, but we can't interweb tell where it might be leaking. Could also be why the code lit. Maybe test fuel piping with low air pressure, in sections to isolate.

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What good are you then? Haha!
I think what i was really getting at was if others thought it could be fuel leak, rather than electrical.

I'll try to vasoline trick, and if there is no change over the next day, then I'll run through the Rosstech diagnostics protocal.

Slow start this morning, acouple stalls but no codes this time. Once the idle settles it runs like normal.
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Yea, I hear ya. For me troubleshooting is 85% of any repair job. That's when I like to hear from Oilhammer, he may be interweb smart or not but he's seen these things hundreds of times. The grease trick is good, I always lube them when I'm there. But that does not rule out a fuel leak. Air molecules are smaller than diesel molecules, so it's not always obvious. Pressurize individual sections to track down leakage.
That being said, it's also possible it's electrical, though evidence more points to leakage. 17656/P1248/004680 - Ross-Tech Wiki

BobnOH said:

Yea, I hear ya. For me troubleshooting is 85% of any repair job. That's when I like to hear from Oilhammer, he may be interweb smart or not but he's seen these things hundreds of times. The grease trick is good, I always lube them when I'm there. But that does not rule out a fuel leak. Air molecules are smaller than diesel molecules, so it's not always obvious. Pressurize individual sections to track down leakage.
That being said, it's also possible it's electrical, though evidence more points to leakage. 17656/P1248/004680 - Ross-Tech Wiki

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Dont know why, but recently I have just gone into panic mode when something happens... Its funny, cause normally I am quick to diagnose things, but now I feel clueless. No worries, time to post more, search more and get edumicated.


Cleared the most recent CEL(second time that same code popped) funny because this time it cranked right up, and only had the tiniest RPM fluctuation about 5 seconds in. But other times when it has stalled itself, it didnt pop the CEL...

Vasoline is done to the fuel filter valve. Idled in the driveway for several minutes, then took the car to walmart and back. Wont have to leave in the AM tomorrow, so later in the day we will see how it cranks up.

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So have you check your timing with VCDS?

I’ve heard of some people giving the N108 solenoid on Injection Pump a light tap with a long screwdriver or bar or something as it’s hard to reach


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super1 said:

So have you check your timing with VCDS?

I’ve heard of some people giving the N108 solenoid on Injection Pump a light tap with a long screwdriver or bar or something as it’s hard to reach


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Click to expand...

Yesterday, after the Vasoline trick, i adjusted my timing down to about 3.5BTDC. It was maxed at 5.5BTDC, was well above the yellow line, and the actual number jumped around 75-78.

I did mention it earlier in this thread, but had the reply that a warm engine likes the timing like that. (I also stated that the timing "number" was 70, not the 78 it actually is.)


Havent tested the car today, yet, but will test it out first before I consider messing with the N108.

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ItAintRodKnock said:

Yesterday, after the Vasoline trick, i adjusted my timing down to about 3.5BTDC. It was maxed at 5.5BTDC, was well above the yellow line, and the actual number jumped around 75-78.

I did mention it earlier in this thread, but had the reply that a warm engine likes the timing like that. (I also stated that the timing "number" was 70, not the 78 it actually is.)


Havent tested the car today, yet, but will test it out first before I consider messing with the N108.

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Click to expand...

Ok sounds like a plan

Let us know


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Cranked it up just now. No CEL this time.
Car needed a slightly extended crank time to start. It was pretty rough to idle and shortly(10 seconds max) after stalled itself.

Slightly extended turnover, it started up and idle was a little jumpy.

To note: a pretty hefty amount of white smoke at the first startup, and even a puff on the second one.
Car doesnt use oil and the Oil seals for the turbo never seemed to leak enough to create much cold start smoke. I am curious if I have a fuel leak from a dripping nozzle!? But, point being, the fuel filter connection is not the issue I trust.

I am now focused on the Rosstech diagnostics above, then I'll look into my latest THEORY of a leaking injector.

pretty effed up if it ends up being the Advance Solenoid.. Per my short research, it may need ANOTHER Timing Belt Job, just one month after i paid a shop to do that job.......

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