Project Kill Da Auto Wabbit!, Or how I learned to love the Manual Swap

I'm getting ready to do the 5 speed swap. I just got my luke flywheel and I have a question about it. It came all put together in the box as if they lined up the disc and torqued the presser plate bolts. Can I just bolt it to the engine and torque the flywheel bolts or do I need take it apart like you would normally do. I just saw the slots in the presser plate fingers for the flywheel bolts and it got me thanking if really need to take it apart. Thanks

You have to take it apart or you can't bolt on the flywheel .

i saw you said it had slots but i'd just take it apart - the alignment is all but trivial.

ELM said:

I'm getting ready to do the 5 speed swap. I just got my luke flywheel and I have a question about it. It came all put together in the box as if they lined up the disc and torqued the presser plate bolts. Can I just bolt it to the engine and torque the flywheel bolts or do I need take it apart like you would normally do. I just saw the slots in the presser plate fingers for the flywheel bolts and it got me thanking if really need to take it apart. Thanks

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it comes assembled so you can do just that .... I had to grind down one of my triple square bits a little so it would fit through the holes ... the kits come with the alignment tool so it's not a big deal if you need to take it apart

jimbote said:

it comes assembled so you can do just that .... I had to grind down one of my triple square bits a little so it would fit through the holes ... the kits come with the alignment tool so it's not a big deal if you need to take it apart

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That's what it looked like to me, but I just wanted to make sure. I'm used to dealing with big engines. Now I,m just waiting on the stretch bolts and trans oil. I'm sure I will have more questions later. Thanks

Well I got the 01M out and the 5 speed in and that part went smooth. I did all the wiring and the back up lights work and the clutch pedal interlock works for the starter.
But the speedo doesn't work. The car is on jackstands still so I only put it 1st gear and let out the clutch and no speedo. I guess my question is did any of the wires from the 175 relay have anything to do with the speedo. Or could the speed sensor that came with the 5 speed be bad? I also built a new glow plug harness but I don't think that would have anything to do with the speedo. I took it for a drive and no speedo or cruise control. If anyone has ideas on this I'm all ears. Thanks

is the vss hooked up?

Like Alphaseinor asked, did you plug it in? The plug is near the CTS.

On my doner the sensor was broken and a local Guru saved my bacon giving me a take-off part. It wasn't so much the sensor as the stand off with the little hall effect wheel. On mine the wheel was broken off the shaft.

I have a pic of the conplete sender back in post 2042:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4078920&postcount=2042

Vss

alphaseinor said:

is the vss hooked up?

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It's hooked up but I will unhook it and plug it in again just to make sure the plug is seated in all the way.
The top part of the VSS did come off once and the wheel that spins is in there. The wheel is smooth on top with a shaft with a square end.
Did any of the wiring that I changed have anything to do with the speedo ?
Thanks again for any help.

I took out the vss in the 5 speed to check it out and see if it was the same as the auto one, It's not the same. The auto one goes about an 1"1/2 deeper in the trans.
I took the vss apart and there is the lower part that goes in the trans, the disc that spins and the upper part that the wires plug on to. Maybe I'm missing a part I don't know. I put it back in and it still know speedo.

ELM said:

I took out the vss in the 5 speed to check it out and see if it was the same as the auto one, It's not the same. The auto one goes about an 1"1/2 deeper in the trans.
I took the vss apart and there is the lower part that goes in the trans, the disc that spins and the upper part that the wires plug on to. Maybe I'm missing a part I don't know. I put it back in and it still know speedo.

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make sure you have power and ground on the sensor... an 01M auto sensor works great, if you need one I have several ... for just shipping I'll get one to ya.... EDIT: just to clarify the auto sensor I'm referring to is just the sensor portion that threads onto the gear, not the speedo pinion gear which you have discovered is different

Where can i buy a complete conversion kit?

I've been following this discussion for along time, but I've come to a point where my 01M is finally calling it quits. Not sure if I want to throw more money down {a rat hole} on my 01M.

Are there any reputable guys/gals/dealers I can buy a complete kit from?
Installers?

I'm in the Saint Charles, Missouri area..

-Jason

im selling an auto to 5 spd kit

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=389117

jchan said:

I've been following this discussion for along time, but I've come to a point where my 01M is finally calling it quits. Not sure if I want to throw more money down {a rat hole} on my 01M.

Are there any reputable guys/gals/dealers I can buy a complete kit from?
Installers?

I'm in the Saint Charles, Missouri area..

-Jason

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I just did the 5 speed swap in my 2002 Beetle.
I payed $600 for the trans, the tins between the engine and trans, and the starter was $30.00 from a VW wrecking yard.
I bought the luk flywheel/ clutch kit on eBay for $240
I bought the clutch pedal with switches, Shifter box with cables, 1.8 drive flanges that go on the trans for inner cv joints, I bought all this at pick n pull on one of there half price days for $60.00
That's $930.00 in used parts. I also bought new oil for trans, new stretch bolts, I'm still dealing with a speedo that doesn't work but I haven't had the time to check that out much.

Well I'm back at it trying to figure out the speed/ VSS. The alternator was bad so I thought I should get that fixed before do any more with the VSS. Here are some pictures of the VSS from the 01M and 02J.


I also found something interesting when looking in the VSS plugs.



It's not the best picture but it's all I have right now. (low battery) When you look at the plugs the 02J is on the left and left pin has a plus, center pin has an A and the right pin has minus. The right VSS is from the 01M and the left pin has a minus, center has an A and right pin has a plus. So what I see is that the plus and minuses are reversed. I checked for power on the harness side of the plug and the center pin with the A has the voltage and the outer pins are grounds. When I picked up the used VSS from a 02J I also got the plug from that car and the wires are the same colors and in the same spots on the plug. I haven't tried the other VSS yet. I'm going to take the 01M VSS apart more and see what I see. So that's where I'm at right now.
Does anyone know if the VSS wires go through the TCM? I might try plugging it back in to see what happens.

The upper section is the same thread, and same count on the hall sensor per turn, so you can swap the connectors should be a 22mm wrench.

As for the VSS, you have a chassis ground, a +12v fused, and one wire that goes to the Cluster. nothing goes through the TCM.

You shouldn't need to remove the entire VSS assembly, just the top portion.

I have yet to come across any automatic VSS plug that is a different size than the standard version. this is a new one if that one is bigger, can you post the part number?

I just tried the upper half of the VSS from the 01M and it still doesn't work.
The plug it self is the same, but if you look inside of the VSS where the plug plugs in to that's where I see a differences. The plus and minuses are switched and the A is in the center of both VSS. Am I making sence. I will pick up some new battery's for camera later today and post a better picture of the inside of the VSS where the plug plugs in to.

I took the car for a 115 mile test drive yesterday to get the used VSS and it worked great. No more worrying about when is that POS 01M going to die for the third time.
Thanks for your help with this.

Not a problem

The pinouts are the same between the manual and automatic versions according to the bentley manual, and I've done a boat load of these and don't usually have a problem with the VSS... usually it's something missing.

Glad it was just the VSS sensor itself

alphaseinor said:

Not a problem

The pinouts are the same between the manual and automatic versions according to the bentley manual, and I've done a boat load of these and don't usually have a problem with the VSS... usually it's something missing.

Glad it was just the VSS sensor itself

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It's not fixed yet. I'm now thinking it's maybe a ground problem. Well at least that's what im going to check out next. But it's fun to drive it again.

Hopefully crm450f reads this message. If so, please change your settings so you can receive my reply to your PM If you read this, and make the necessary changes PM me again to let you know. Thanks!

Finally, I am done. It's not a hard project, but when the car is 2 hours away and time on the weekends just isn't there, it takes forever.

All seems well, I've put 1000 miles on the car in the last week and everything seems to be going well.

The wiring in the PDF was spot on for my 2002 Jetta that was first sold/put into use in Sept. 2001.

All that I have left to do is get my hands on a coolant glow plug flange and wire it into the ECU. I zip tied of the ECU wires for the GP's. And I have everything all routed from the relay box for the harness.

~ryan

b1gmoose said:

Finally, I am done. It's not a hard project, but when the car is 2 hours away and time on the weekends just isn't there, it takes forever.


The wiring in the PDF was spot on for my 2002 Jetta that was first sold/put into use in Sept. 2001.


~ryan

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Witch wiring write up did you use? I did the swap on my 2002 Beetle and the wire colors didn't match my Beetle. My back up lights and Clutch safety work. But my speedo doesn't work.

FWIW, there are no wiring changes that involve the speedo. You just plug in the 'manual' sender where the 'auto' one plugged in. If it doesn't' work you probably have a sender problem.

I had the same problem. Replacing the 'whole sender' (not just the sensor part on top) solved my problem. On mine the disc on top had broken free of the shaft.

The beetle harness is different, however it's not going to have a difference on the VSS circuit.

ELM said:

Witch wiring write up did you use? I did the swap on my 2002 Beetle and the wire colors didn't match my Beetle. My back up lights and Clutch safety work. But my speedo doesn't work.

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I'll look at what I printed out when I get home. But it was the PDF referenced early on in this thread.

The VSS was plug and play onto the 02J. I got lucky with the wiring. I figured having an 02 that was manufactured and sold in 01 was going to be a red headed step child. But it matched up. Wire colors and ecu pin locations.

The wiring reminded me of telephone cabling. You have 10 total colors to represent 25 pairs of wire. And you have to pay attention to the thickness of the color stripes. On yellow orange is it more orange than yellow or not.

I used my telephone tone generator and pickup to confirm the wires before I cut and spliced.

Other than my time issue, the swap went well and I'm adjusting from a patience inspiring 2.7L Toyota Tacoma. Huge difference for me, as I haven't driven this car since I deployed to Iraq in 2010/2011.

~ryan

I'm glad the PDF is of use. I thought it important to put the work of many into a handy and easily accessible paper. It was done to hopefully give alphaseinor somewhat of a break on questions so often covered in this thread. Again my personal thanks to him for all the personal help he has given!

boertje said:

It was done to hopefully give alphaseinor somewhat of a break on questions so often covered in this thread.

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Yes it's been a massive help on that front... always welcome to pop by the shop for anything you might need help with (if you are in texas that is)

boertje said:

Again my personal thanks to him for all the personal help he has given!

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Thanks to you as well and yorokonde!

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I did a manual swap on my 02 Golf TDI and everything went perfectly. Everything works (clutch switch, cruise, reverse lights) and no CEL or codes. The only mod on this car is larger nozzle injectors from a manual car.
With that said, I have noticed one odd thing that doesn't make sense to me, so I am asking you guys. When I am accelerating, then I let off the gas while depressing the clutch for a shift, I get a little "bump" or "blip" of RPM before the RPM falls as it should. If I slow down the process so that I exaggerate the amount of time I let off the throttle before depressing the clutch, sometimes I get the bump (though smaller) and sometimes I don't.
One other thing that I noticed that might be significant is a slightly rough idle when warm. Nothing severe or worry-some but just enough to be noticeable.

I had an 01 Jetta TDI that was originally a manual that I am using as a comparison. One other observation that is not a complaint, is that the 02 has a bunch more power than the 01 had, more of an increase than I would expect from +1 injectors.

I am guessing that this may be related to some adaptation that needs to be tweaked, but I don't really know where to start with that. Any ideas?

The rmp blip is probably related to a clutch safety switch.