Engine won't shut off

Powder Hound · Oct 27, 2013

Anyone have ideas?

2000 Golf, auto, 186k miles. After start up and running for any length of time, turning off and removal of the key does not shut the engine off. I have shorted the fuel cutoff solenoid to stop the engine. I also then disconnect the battery to avoid draining it.

Replacement of the ignition switch and fan control modules did nothing to alter this. Obviously, something else going on.

Does anyone have any ideas on what to check?

Thanks,

PH

Votblindub · Oct 28, 2013

What about that valve near the intake manifold(sorry i forgot the name) thats basically like a throttle body that closes when you get the key out to stop runaways? It might be clogged up and not moving.

puntmeister · Oct 28, 2013

Its called the anti-shudder valve. It operates via a vaccuum actuator, vaccuum pulled from one of the two vaccuum pumps (forget which one N75, or the other, right next to it).

Its worth checking the anti-shudder valve, but I don't know as though a malfunctioning anti-shudder valve would cause, or solve, the problem. Once the key is turned off, shouldn't the ECU stop the injector from injecting fuel?

I am not certain about the 2000 TDI's, but I'm guessing their fuel injection is electronically controlled.

Ski in NC · Oct 28, 2013

Maybe relay 109 sticking in on position? Give relay a whack. Maybe alternator is failing and backfeeding up one of those little wires. Try unplugging alt and see if it turns off by key.

Votblindub · Oct 28, 2013

puntmeister said:
Its called the anti-shudder valve.

*snaps fingers* that's it! thank you.

n1das · Oct 28, 2013

Fuel cutoff solenoid valve sticking in the ON position? I've heard of it happening before. I recall there's a plunger in there that can get out of place and cause things to stick. Often unscrewing and removing and then reinstalling the solenoid is enough to fix it if this is what's happening.

I've also heard of the opposite case happening where the fuel cutoff solenoid sort of sticks in the OFF position and this causes the idle to briefly jump to 1800 RPM at startup without giving it any go-pedal input.

Good luck.

greengeeker · Oct 28, 2013

The ASV is not needed to shut the car down - it simply, as it's name implies, stops the engine from spinning down which results in a pretty strong shake/shudder on those last few revolutions.

Das · Oct 28, 2013

you can test the fuel cutoff solenoid buy vag com if you have one you can actually make it shut off.

greengeeker · Oct 28, 2013

You can do the same test by simply removing the wire from the solenoid.

Powder Hound · Oct 28, 2013

Or the quickest easiest test of all, which is to use a screwdriver or similar metal implement and just short the wire fastened on top of the fuel cutoff solenoid to the IP body. Shuts off in 1 second or less. That's the current method of shutdown for the moment.

And yes, puntmeister, the injection pump is electronically controlled.

I am moving into looking for general problems, and probably kicking (OK, just a gentle tap...) the 109 relay next, then looking for some awkward place for water to collect and start corroding something.

whitedog · Oct 28, 2013

greengeeker said:
You can do the same test by simply removing the wire from the solenoid.

Well, yeah, but where's the fun in that?

I'll take a look at some wiring diagrams and see if anything jumps out at me and hands me a clue.

whitedog · Oct 28, 2013

I would start by pulling fuses 10, 29, 32 and 34 one by one to see if any of those shut down the engine.

Powder Hound · Oct 30, 2013

So playing with the 109 relay did not produce any answers. There was a strange thing I found which is an extra ground wire that was run from under the battery tray to the side dash fuse box, and a wire (I removed it when I found it) running from one of the 109 blades to terminal 75 on that fuse/relay panel.

I left the extra ground in place.

I also checked for corrosion and found no evidence for electrical worries.

At this point, I'm this close to making this a parts car. The engine is good, lots of other parts are good - other than shipping headaches I could about break even if I parted it out.

Any takers for the whole car intact?

I'll check the fuses and get back soon.

KLXD · Oct 30, 2013

Seems to me shorting the solenoid is not a good way to kill the engine. You are drawing a lot more current through the ECU doing that.

Have you checked that the key switch is actually opening? The solenoid, QA and ASV are all run by the ECU so it's still getting power.

fierodough · Oct 30, 2013

Is your radio turning off when the key is off and door opened?? Do you have an aftermarket radio?

Seems your 12V constant is shorting out to your 12V accessory / ignition.

Votblindub · Oct 30, 2013

Is there any coolant creep?

n1das · Oct 30, 2013

Powder Hound said:
Or the quickest easiest test of all, which is to use a screwdriver or similar metal implement and just short the wire fastened on top of the fuel cutoff solenoid to the IP body. Shuts off in 1 second or less. That's the current method of shutdown for the moment.

That rules out my theory about the fuel cutoff solenoid getting stuck in the ON position. Your fuel cutoff solenoid appears to be good. If everything else checks out OK, maybe a problem with the ECU itself?

If the car has a manual transmission, a clutch dump while in 5th gear will shut it down quick.

fierodough · Nov 5, 2013

I still think 12V is migrating to the ignition side.

With the key off (and engine keeps runing) push the gas pedal. Does the engine rev more? If so, the ECU is being kept alive by some stray 12V source. If it does not react, you have 12V migrating only to the fuel cut off solenoid.

KLXD · Nov 5, 2013

Powering the solenoid alone won't keep the engine running. The ECU sets the IQ to zero to shut off the engine. You can take the plunger out of the solenoid and the engine will stop just fine.

supton · Nov 5, 2013

Is the dashboard still on? Can you drive with the key out?

Maybe it knows it's demise is soon, and it's to live as long as it can... You did say it was an auto, afterall.

BlueGolfTDI · Nov 6, 2013

How's the oil level holding? Maybe the engine is not running on diesel fuel when the ignition is off.

Powder Hound · Nov 6, 2013

If that were the case, shorting the fuel cutoff solenoid to shut down the engine would not work.

The oil level is fine, though.

Can't try driving in key-out mode because removing the key locks the transmission in park. I should get out there and see if the go-pedal changes things.

KLXD · Nov 6, 2013

I missed in the first post that you already replaced the key switch.

So, you kill the engine and disconnect the battery. Now you go to restart and connect the battery. What happens?

Does the dash go through its normal test mode and do the plugs cycle, assuming it's cold enough? Or is everything dead until you turn on the key?

madmikeismad · Jan 27, 2015

Ever figure this out? I'm having exact same issue after a tdi swap. Post 46

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=4724449#post4724449

joman100 · Feb 17, 2019

Hey folks!
My 2005 BEW TDI starts and runs great, but around a month ago the car engine stopped turning off when I turn the key to the OFF position. The only way to kill the engine is to open and then close my door (i dont understand why). Also, if another door is open (for example, if the passenger opens their door before I close mine, the car won't shut off). I need to open at least one door, then have all doors close in order to shut off the engine. So far this isn't actually a problem for me, since I know how to kill the engine, but I would like to resolve this since I know it's not normal.
Any help is greatly appreciated

[486] · Feb 17, 2019

from limited understanding I'd be looking for anything that takes power from both the load reduction relay and also n109 relay
start pulling fuses until you find the component that is bridging power over

erreesse · Feb 19, 2019

Hi,
I had the same problem years ago, the solution was a diode somewhere near the alternator.

wonneber · Feb 19, 2019

I couldn't find a diode in the charging system other then those inside the alternator.

There's 2 diodes in the daytime running lights relay.
It might feedback through fuse 5.
Try pulling the relay and see if the problem goes away.

Dubdude · Feb 23, 2020

I'm having the same issue except the only thing that allows the engine to shut off is if I apply the parking brake before I turn the key off. 02 Golf ALH 5 speed swapped 410k

Engine won't shut off

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