2004 timing belt striped 6 inchs at crank

Hi , my 2004 TDI timing belt stripped 6 inch's of the timing belt at the crank gear, how do I check to see if I have any bent valves? thanks for any and all help

Ohhh you have bent valves to be sure.
Pull the valve cover off and inspect the lifters as best you can if leaving the cam installed.
It would be better to pull the cam and inspect the lifters, any that show spider cracks are ones that have hit.
Your gonna have to pull the head......sorry.

csstevej said:

Ohhh you have bent valves to be sure.
Pull the valve cover off and inspect the lifters as best you can if leaving the cam installed.
It would be better to pull the cam and inspect the lifters, any that show spider cracks are ones that have hit.
Your gonna have to pull the head......sorry.

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I have been driving a BEW car where this has happened for about 7K miles without pulling the head.
As you said, one needs to check the lifters for cracks and if there are none, then there was no 'hit'.

The timing belt can track without losing enough time for damage but enough to stall the engine. The idea here is to not crank the engine mindlessly if it is not starting. Check. If you are not sure or don't have the knowledge of what to look for then pull the head and get it checked out, I guess.

only way to tell is with a new belt installed try and rotate the engine by hand. if it goes over fully then try and start it. if it runs, well, motor on. probably won't. this is what you get for metinance negligence.

Mongler98 said:

only way to tell is with a new belt installed try and rotate the engine by hand. if it goes over fully then try and start it. if it runs, well, motor on. probably won't. this is what you get for metinance negligence.

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?

Mongler98 said:

only way to tell is with a new belt installed try and rotate the engine by hand. if it goes over fully then try and start it. if it runs, well, motor on. probably won't. this is what you get for metinance negligence.

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I was told that the timing belt was changed when I got the car 6 months ago.

JETaah said:

?

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Yeah, the above advice makes no sense. With the belt stripped at the crank (especially) there is very little chance there were no (exhaust) valves touched during the "event". Have to make a very careful inspection of the lifters at a minimum. A valve(s) contacted is compromised and left in use will fail and eventually destroy the cylinder(s). The valve stems get compressed, not "bent" really, and while still usually run ok will fail.
Do some diligent forensics.

gunnerthesnowman said:

I was told that the timing belt was changed when I got the car 6 months ago.

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Ever notice that almost every VW for sale (especially TDIs) always advertise the TB/WP/etc have been "recently" changed??
As said many, many times-when you buy an interference engine vehicle, unless you have stellar documentation of when the service was done, what was replaced, where the parts were sourced from, and who did the work-you consider the service due asap.
Maybe it really was done. Improperly or partially (belt only), etc.
The belt virtually never fails on its own. Something else in the belt system path caused the belt failure.

gunnerthesnowman said:

I was told that the timing belt was changed when I got the car 6 months ago.

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Of course you were; sellers always do that. Let's be real -- not having done it means the selling price is a thousand bucks less to anyone who knows what it costs to have same professionally done, and finding THAT out is a simple phone call to a local stealer.

Can they prove said work (e.g. got invoice for both parts and labor?), when and at what mileage, and who did the work? All are important with an interference engine.

Sadly most of the time when such is claimed it was either not done or done wrong (e.g. only the belt itself was changed and not the other components that should be changed), and while sometimes you can detect the latter (e.g. paint marks are a good indication it was done wrong) the lack of them is not evidence that it was done right.

The odds you had a valve collision are overwhelmingly high.

gunnerthesnowman said:

I was told that the timing belt was changed when I got the car 6 months ago.

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You see enough of these cars and you see all kinds of installation atrocities. Could be that the tensioner was installed incorrectly, cheapo parts, you name it.
And if you do find that the valves are bent, it could be a case where the guy lost a timing belt, put a new one on, and rotated the engine to find it did not bind and motored on...But did not check to see if there was a collision of valves to pistons...or did and decided to sell his problems to someone else.

Seems I have read here that valves into pistons means that shortly it will be valve head separation, and then 'more parts are needed time'. Not that I have taken one of these apart to do belt work, but 6" missing at the crank is more than enough to get quite far away from required 'valves miss pistons reliably' timing.
cheers,
Douglas

gunnerthesnowman said:

I was told that the timing belt was changed when I got the car 6 months ago.

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I think this is probably the biggest lie told when it comes to the sale of a TDI.


Here is my experience with my 05 almost 3 years ago. Virtually the same as yours complete with pics of what your looking for.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=477509

PakProtector said:

Seems I have read here that valves into pistons means that shortly it will be valve head separation, and then 'more parts are needed time'. Not that I have taken one of these apart to do belt work, but 6" missing at the crank is more than enough to get quite far away from required 'valves miss pistons reliably' timing.
cheers,
Douglas

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Just because the teeth are missing it does not mean that the cam/crank pulley slipped 6". Like I said, sometimes the belt can track without the teeth. There is a considerable wrap on both. The proof was that the lifters were not cracked...dodged a bullet.

JETaah said:

Just because the teeth are missing it does not mean that the cam/crank pulley slipped 6". Like I said, sometimes the belt can track without the teeth. There is a considerable wrap on both. The proof was that the lifters were not cracked...dodged a bullet.

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Sometimes, perhaps. Not often, usually. Now and then, every once in a while, someone gets a fortunate break.

PakProtector said:

Seems I have read here that valves into pistons means that shortly it will be valve head separation, and then 'more parts are needed time'. Not that I have taken one of these apart to do belt work, but 6" missing at the crank is more than enough to get quite far away from required 'valves miss pistons reliably' timing.
cheers,
Douglas

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Yes, often after a valve/piston "event" the compromised valve(s) fails and the valve head falls into the cylinder and wrecks the bore, head and whatever it can. Usually at that point the engine is considered scrap for parts. Sometimes it can take a while, perhaps 10k miles, perhaps 10 miles. Never know...

6 inches of no teeth on the TB most likely equals to more than the number of teeth on the crankshaft cog........ thus, I cannot imagine the belt did not slip! How did those 6 inches of teeth magically come off? Answer, the Crankshaft Cog ripped them off!

Yep! Install a new TB and it will likely start and run just fine. But, when will that one exhaust valve fail? When it fails, there will be carnage to the engine.

Dealership told a guy the TB had been changed on the 99 NB he purchased from them at 65k miles (60k belt I suppose). Well, at 105k miles the TB lost teeth and the engine died. He installed a new TB and in less than 1200 miles an exhaust valve head broke off....... Similar story with my brother's 2003 Jetta! Many of you have seen the pics of the carnage I've posted!

OP, fix it right or you'll be looking for another engine or a major rebuild!

Well, took the cam out, the lifters had spider cracks as were domed, a few had groove worn in them were they stopped rotating and the cam worn into them. So removed the head, there is no bent valve and hear are pictures of the top of the pistons

Contact Franko6, get a new head and get her back on the road.

Yup, those impressions on the tops of the pistons are valves meeting pistons with force, which means the valve heads have been weakened and can pop off without warning down the road.

You'll want to carefully measure piston protrusion to make sure it's within limits (aka no bent rods) but in general the valves/lifters absorb the energy and with a replacement head you'll be on your way.

Pictures of the head

Won’t see anything there unless you pull the valves.......
I wanna see the lifters ; ).

And even then there is likely not much to see, at least valve-wise.

Because the valves impact the pistons square on they don't tend to bend and they can look normal. However, the impact weakens the head where it joins into the stem.

Yep! As others have stated, you are not going to see "bent" valves, although they are likely bent ever so slightly. And, as already stated, the damage is to the valve stem near the head of the valve.

It looks like all of the Exhaust Valves made contact with their respective piston. This tells me he engine has been cranked over in an attempt to start it or the transmission was left in gear without disengaging the clutch before coming to a stop.

When the teeth stripped off, the Cam become slow in time which resulted in an exhaust valve(s) being hit by the piston(s). Likely, the more it was cranked or allowed to continue on in gear the farther it got out of time. It also appears that all the Intake Valves done some kissing too, although ever so slightly. An Intake Valve is opening as the piston is going down away from the valve and closes just past BDC. So, I suspect with Intake Valve contact, the Cam and Crankshaft were extremely out of time by the time it was all over!