Fuel filter w/o vag com

MichaelB said:

How do you know that?

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I work in maintenance at local refineries.

PRY4SNO said:

I work in maintenance at local refineries.

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I could say that too. What does your overall work experience at unknown local refineries lend to you knowing that the winter fuel is substandard?

MichaelB said:

I could say that too. What does your overall work experience at unknown local refineries lend to you knowing that the winter fuel is substandard?

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I'm a journeyman steamfitter. My bread and butter is building and maintaining upgraders and refineries. Most recently I spent the last couple years maintaining live operating production units at a local 135,000 BPD refinery. My conversations from working directly with ops and engineering have lead to my conclusions (and were cross-verified over the years from similar conversations at competitor plants).

What do you do, and what are you getting at, exactly?

PRY4SNO said:

My conversations from working directly with ops and engineering have lead to my conclusions (and were cross-verified over the years from similar conversations at competitor plants).

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What exactly did these operation people and engineers tell you that the refineries did in the winter to produce substandard quality fuel?

MichaelB said:

What exactly did these operation people and engineers tell you that the refineries did in the winter to produce substandard quality fuel?

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Why do you seem so mad about it?

PRY4SNO said:

Yeah that's the same stuff I use almost every fill up. Works really well. By my calculations the cost of additive is more than offset by the gain in mileage. Great product.

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Even though I use PS, you'd have to prove to me with hard numbers any mileage gains.

INSW20 said:

Why do you seem so mad about it?

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Not mad just curious about unsubstantiated evidence, In essence, the somebody told me syndrome so we all should believe it here. This forum is full of he said and she said so I know it must be true. The statement about working as a steamfitter in Candian refineries tends to lean /want us to believe that the winter fuel is substandard because a pipe fitter worked there so it must be true eh? Facts are facts based on evidence, opinions are just that opinions and unsubstantiated rumors well... I think you get it.

Michael

I probably spent $20-30 on fuel additives before I decided they were mostly a waste of money. I really never bought into the whole miracle product marketing assault.

Jetta_Pilot said:

Even though I use PS, you'd have to prove to me with hard numbers any mileage gains.

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I could care less about supposed MPG claims. Since new my car has gotten 47 MPG mostly freeway and that is just fine with me.

At the pump the claim is "up to" 5% Bio D which means that the actual % could be zero or 5%. Given that, I use 4 OZ's of power service EVERY tank just to make sure every tank has a bump in lubricity.

The only difference in winter diesel in Canada is the anti-gelling additives from Nov-Mar. Diesel comes off at the same temp in the distillation process (200-350 deg C) regardless of the time of year or how many times the dog at the gatehouse barked at you on the way in that day.


Fact: I am a 20yr Mech. Engineering Consultant w/10yrs in Oil & Gas production.

Ol'Rattler said:

I could care less about supposed MPG claims. Since new my car has gotten 47 MPG mostly freeway and that is just fine with me.

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**sigh** I miss my MKIV it used to get that kind of mileage too!

Ok so this seem to have spun out of control. But I now have the one eleven, how do I make the pump go so I can change out my filter?it seems car fax history on my car says it was a fleet car. There was a bar code stuck to it just under the light switch. But the odd part was the history was super clean all but the filter and tranny oil changes were talked about from 0 miles to 156k miles. But again how do I active the pump with obd eleven?


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CaptainAF said:

Ok so this seem to have spun out of control. But I now have the one eleven, how do I make the pump go so I can change out my filter?it seems car fax history on my car says it was a fleet car. There was a bar code stuck to it just under the light switch. But the odd part was the history was super clean all but the filter and tranny oil changes were talked about from 0 miles to 156k miles. But again how do I active the pump with obd eleven?


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Basic setting
Engine
Channel 35
On-off

You rock sir and stay safe!


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MichaelB said:

Not mad just curious about unsubstantiated evidence, In essence, the somebody told me syndrome so we all should believe it here. This forum is full of he said and she said so I know it must be true. The statement about working as a steamfitter in Candian refineries tends to lean /want us to believe that the winter fuel is substandard because a pipe fitter worked there so it must be true eh? Facts are facts based on evidence, opinions are just that opinions and unsubstantiated rumors well... I think you get it.

Michael

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First of all, I've got no reason to lie. The point of the forums is to share knowledge and enhance the community. Your tone is the reason he (and likely others) question about your intent.

Since you dodged my own question about your background I'll infer you have petrochemical experience as a 'retired manufacturing engineer'? If that's the case, surely you know different regions based on climate zones and local regulations require different blends at different times of the year. Anchorage has different requirements than Atlanta. Butane is added to gasoline up here from October to April to aid cold starts. I know this because it's routine maintenance in the light oils units, which were under my direct care. Go figure, reduced winter mileage is a common theme among people around here with gasoline engines. My own observed mileage is based on over 112,000 km tracked on Fuelly is that I tend to average about 100 km less per tank with the exact same commute.

Something you may not be considering here is the quality of the feed stock from upstream supply. Our upgraders are supplied out of the Athabasca oil sands, which is incredibly high in sulphur, for instance. Refining heavy bitumen is a different process than what you're likely seeing in the SE Wisconsin area. That's why the refinery in question had to undergo a $3B conversion project when ULSD laws went into effect. These factors make a difference, and I'm sure you know this.

Having asked ops about why winter mileage is decreased, I've heard some interesting stories. Of course I'm not in ops, so I cannot personally confirm nor deny, but the point is I have more info than the guy at the local gas station. Take it at face value or feel free to disregard. I've been told about gasoline being blended into diesel at times. Or about that time last winter how there was a few months where they weren't producing ULSD because a couple units went down just before a plant wide shutdown, and management didn't bother to bring them online again due to cost. The amount of other sub-regulatory shenanigans that go down (typically after dark) are... interesting, to say the least.

Considering all this has nothing to do with the OP of the thread, this is the last I have to say on your query. If you want any more information, feel free to start a new thread or message me directly.

CaptainAF said:

You rock sir and stay safe!


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No sweat, happy to help. From the reading online I've done on the procedure, people are saying to prime the pump two or three times for 20-30 seconds, with about 30 seconds in between to allow the pump to cool down.

PRY4SNO said:

I've been told about gasoline being blended into diesel at times. Or about that time last winter how there was a few months where they weren't producing ULSD because a couple units went down just before a plant wide shutdown, and management didn't bother to bring them online again due to cost. The amount of other sub-regulatory shenanigans that go down (typically after dark) are... interesting, to say the least.
.

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Gasoline blended into diesel? At the refinery? Sounds like oil field mythology. That would be pretty illegal I'm sure. And just stupid. I can see it happening accidentally on extremely rare occasions, but that fuel would have to be re refined.

CaptainAF said:

Ok so this seem to have spun out of control. But I now have the one eleven, how do I make the pump go so I can change out my filter?it seems car fax history on my car says it was a fleet car. There was a bar code stuck to it just under the light switch. But the odd part was the history was super clean all but the filter and tranny oil changes were talked about from 0 miles to 156k miles. But again how do I active the pump with obd eleven?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Not necessary, just add Diesel or PowerService into the housing after your filter is dropped in. Fill to the top, close it up and car should start without any problem!

PRY4SNO said:

First of all, I've got no reason to lie. The point of the forums is to share knowledge and enhance the community. Your tone is the reason he (and likely others) question about your intent.

Since you dodged my own question about your background I'll infer you have petrochemical experience as a 'retired manufacturing engineer'? If that's the case, surely you know different regions based on climate zones and local regulations require different blends at different times of the year. Anchorage has different requirements than Atlanta. Butane is added to gasoline up here from October to April to aid cold starts. I know this because it's routine maintenance in the light oils units, which were under my direct care. Go figure, reduced winter mileage is a common theme among people around here with gasoline engines. My own observed mileage is based on over 112,000 km tracked on Fuelly is that I tend to average about 100 km less per tank with the exact same commute.

Something you may not be considering here is the quality of the feed stock from upstream supply. Our upgraders are supplied out of the Athabasca oil sands, which is incredibly high in sulphur, for instance. Refining heavy bitumen is a different process than what you're likely seeing in the SE Wisconsin area. That's why the refinery in question had to undergo a $3B conversion project when ULSD laws went into effect. These factors make a difference, and I'm sure you know this.

Having asked ops about why winter mileage is decreased, I've heard some interesting stories. Of course I'm not in ops, so I cannot personally confirm nor deny, but the point is I have more info than the guy at the local gas station. Take it at face value or feel free to disregard. I've been told about gasoline being blended into diesel at times. Or about that time last winter how there was a few months where they weren't producing ULSD because a couple units went down just before a plant wide shutdown, and management didn't bother to bring them online again due to cost. The amount of other sub-regulatory shenanigans that go down (typically after dark) are... interesting, to say the least.

Considering all this has nothing to do with the OP of the thread, this is the last I have to say on your query. If you want any more information, feel free to start a new thread or message me directly.

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I guess you didn't read this, I think his king trumps your queen.

crashtested said:

The only difference in winter diesel in Canada is the anti-gelling additives from Nov-Mar. Diesel comes off at the same temp in the distillation process (200-350 deg C) regardless of the time of year or how many times the dog at the gatehouse barked at you on the way in that day.


Fact: I am a 20yr Mech. Engineering Consultant w/10yrs in Oil & Gas production.

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turbobrick240 said:

Gasoline blended into diesel? At the refinery? Sounds like oil field mythology. That would be pretty illegal I'm sure. And just stupid. I can see it happening accidentally on extremely rare occasions, but that fuel would have to be re refined.

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The amount of illegal stuff that goes on would stagger a neophyte. After a while you get used to it... just blends into the background lol

Yeah, rules get broken in every industry. But I just don't see intentional blending of gasoline into the diesel pool happening at any N. American refinery. N. Korea, perhaps. Can't see the upside. I can see tanks or pipelines with very marginal amounts of residual fuel being switched to other fuels causing minimal mixing, but not enough to worry about.

PRY4SNO said:

The amount of illegal stuff that goes on would stagger a neophyte. After a while you get used to it... just blends into the background lol

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So does that mean that every winter the refineries you worked at committed these illegal/immoral things in the winter and not in the summer as you said the Canadian fuel was substandard in the winter that is why you get compromised fuel economy from said fuel in the winter months or is it just that winter fuel is commonly blended with D1 as an anti gell and it is just plain cold out?

MichaelB said:

So does that mean that every winter the refineries you worked at committed these illegal/immoral things in the winter and not in the summer as you said the Canadian fuel was substandard in the winter that is why you get compromised fuel economy from said fuel in the winter months or is it just that winter fuel is commonly blended with D1 as an anti gell and it is just plain cold out?

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A) I didn't say that.

B) I already said I'm done responding to your red herrings in this thread. Either start a new thread or send me a message directly to continue this conversation.

PRY4SNO said:

A) I didn't say that.

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Read post #30 nice delete eh?
We have already continued this conversation through PM. Do you want me to post that conversation in a new thread?

I deleted nothing.

Post what you want; clearly I cannot stop you. I have nothing further to say to a troll like yourself who won't even identify yourself plainly in an effort to equivocate equitable discourse.

PRY4SNO said:

I deleted nothing.

Post what you want; clearly I cannot stop you. I have nothing further to say to a troll like yourself who won't even identify yourself plainly in an effort to equivocate equitable discourse.

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Well, it took you a while to post back eh? You had to think about it before shooting off your mouth again. To continue this conversation and your impeccable creds as a plumber that make you an expert about Canadian winter diesel is apparently futile. Nobody cares but you. I love the troll thing to discredit what has been discussed.....copout on your part eh?

Sleep tight and Motor on,
Michael

MichaelB said:

Well, it took you a while to post back eh? You had to think about it before shooting off your mouth again. To continue this conversation and your impeccable creds as a plumber that make you an expert about Canadian winter diesel is apparently futile. Nobody cares but you. I love the troll thing to discredit what has been discussed.....copout on your part eh?
Sleep tight and Motor on,
Michael

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Understand one thing, troll.

I was busy living my life managing a farm with zero regard to your take as to my daily operations.

How old are you? What are your qualifications and relevant experiences? Who do you work for? Who pays your bills? Would your mother/husband approve of your line of accusation? Although you continually dodge my inquiries which gives me pause to responding to your banal arguments and tropes, I'll graciously offer my thoughts.

Get bent!

You have consistently offered nothing to the conversation except to add redoubt and little original information for your own POV in turn. Take heed, and f*ck off.

Your casual/inconsequential arguments against my experience have in fact offered no refutation against and thus should be considered as the marginal aspect of signal to noise ratio thereto.

Don't ever let my name or discourse get carried up in your commentary again unless you have something effectual to say or an actual question to propose. I'm not going to ever waste my time on your drivel again. You are less than worthless in the context of meaningful conversation due to your disingenuous nature.

Funny thing is, if you had any semblance of humility in your initial tone, we could have engaged in meaningful discourse. Instead, you are mired in the same mediocrity you likely always were... a vapid state of being. And it's your own doing.

Loser.

PRY4SNO said:

Understand one thing, troll.

I was busy living my life managing a farm with zero regard to your take as to my daily operations.

How old are you? What are your qualifications and relevant experiences? Who do you work for? Who pays your bills? Would your mother/husband approve of your line of accusation? Although you continually dodge my inquiries which gives me pause to responding to your banal arguments and tropes, I'll graciously offer my thoughts.

Get bent!

You have consistently offered nothing to the conversation except to add redoubt and little original information for your own POV in turn. Take heed, and f*ck off.

Your casual/inconsequential arguments against my experience have in fact offered no refutation against and thus should be considered as the marginal aspect of signal to noise ratio thereto.

Don't ever let my name or discourse get carried up in your commentary again unless you have something effectual to say or an actual question to propose. I'm not going to ever waste my time on your drivel again. You are less than worthless in the context of meaningful conversation due to your disingenuous nature.

Funny thing is, if you had any semblance of humility in your initial tone, we could have engaged in meaningful discourse. Instead, you are mired in the same mediocrity you likely always were... a vapid state of being. And it's your own doing.

Loser.

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I have always worked for a living, never touted my creds, my mother, father and wife are dead. Never spread gossip either. I'm now retired from a world that you are living in and no longer have to prove anything to anybody...get bent well, that's class eh?
Michael

MichaelB said:

I have always worked for a living, never touted my creds, my mother, father and wife are dead. Never spread gossip either. I'm now retired from a world that you are living in and no longer have to prove anything to anybody...get bent well, that's class eh?
Michael

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Coming from a guy who compares dick sizes unprovoked in PMs. Demands qualifications yet won't own up to his own, respectfully, in turn. And then casts aspersions on someone for sharing their personal experiences in public, rather than asking non-judgemental and insightful/experientailly-based questions to create a communal understanding on a public forum.

Classy fellow. Indeed. Carry on.

PRY4SNO said:

Coming from a guy who compares dick sizes unprovoked in PMs. Demands qualifications yet won't own up to his own, respectfully, in turn. And then casts aspersions on someone for sharing their personal experiences in public, rather than asking non-judgemental and insightful/experientailly-based questions to create a communal understanding on a public forum.

Classy fellow. Indeed. Carry on.

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A little testy eh? What are you trying to prove here? You attacked my grammar as a sign of incompetence so please spell"experientailly"