Oil leak caused by dealership--HELP

To clarify:

Leak started sometime before parked;
Plug was completely out upon discovery of oil on garage floor;
Car was not started and towed to dealer.

Thanks,
schatzie

How many kilometers were on the vehicle at the time? When did you get it? Did you notice any driveability problems prior to parking it in the garage? Noises?

Oh brother! An '03! This is difficult. I would be concerned especially about the rings and the cylinder walls being scuffed. Even a little damage now would show up later in loss of compression (hard starting, less power, poorer mileage) and loss of oil ring seal (burns more oil, blue exhaust smoke).

But I am fairly new to diesels, does anyone know if they can withstand loss of lubrication better than gasoline engines? Do they have lower combustion chamber temps? Does diesel help to lubricate unlike gasoline??

Problem is, when someone is negligent with the work they perform, there must be palpable, quantifiable damage done in order to get restitution.

In your case, you would probably have to have the engine torn apart to be checked to see if there is any scuffing of the rings/walls/bearings/cams, etc. If there isn't, I don't think the dealer is liable. Even if there is, it still might not help, because the engine is still running & working and so they could say there is no real damage. The damage may not show up for many thousands of miles and then it would be hard to prove that it traced back to this.

If the pressure light was not on, then I think you were safe. If a quart or so was on the floor, then it probably leaked but still had some left when you shut down. Having it towed saved it. It will run on low oil, but not no oil.

Thanks for the posts!
In answer about the mileage and age--- it just turned 9,000 miles and is about 3 1/2 months after purchase (I drive alot of highway miles).
My concern is that this is not the first problem with the dealership. The car has exibited serious creaking in the doors and window trim since delivery; been to the dealer 3 times for that problem and has never been rectified.
That problem is a irritation, but nothing compared to the oil leak!
My problem is that my general experience with the dealership gives me little or no confidence in them, but most importantly, the oil issue could either be no problem OR a big problem; and not evidence itself for thousands of miles!
At least I believe I should receive written assurance from the dealer that they will pay for any oil related engine problems far beyond the original warranty.
Any thoughts or other ideas?

schatzie

Need some guidance.
'03 Jetta TDI had oil change done by dealer.
Found large amount of oil on fllor of garage. After discovery, became clear leak begun while driving. Not certain how low or how much leaked slowly before the plug fell out completely.
Dealership admitted mistake, but said the engine "sounded good" and didn't fell any damage was done. I'm not convinced.
What are my options with a dealership that clearly is at fault, and a possibly serious problem that my show up quickly or possibly much, much later?

Thanks for any ideas...

Rob

Clarify:

Did the plug fall out while driving or later in your garage?

Did the oil light come on while driving?

did you put the plug back in and refill, then take it back to the dealer? Or did you have it towed back?

It doesn't sound like you hurt the motor. Sounds like it was not run with no oil. I would suggest sitting down with a manager at this dealership and put your concerns out on the table. See what they say or can do for you. Or find another dealer.

D'ya have a good attorney and VWoA's phone number? The sequence of who you speak to is up to you but I'll bet a nickel they all get involved. Good luck, 'cause you'llneed it.

You're about to discover why they're called stealerships. Remember Schultzie?

I know nothingggg!

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Call VWoA and establish a case number and file a complaint with them against the dealership. VWoA is trying to improve the quality of their operations and they need to hear about this. I am sure they will contact the dealer with the complaint.

Yes, contact VWoA and get a complaint number. If you then have a problem down the road, you will have documentation.

Thanks again for the posts. I will be following through with several contacts tomorrow.
The dealership will remain nameless until a resolution (positive or negative) is reached.
I must say I'm not necessarily hopeful, as they have not contacted me as promised for 3 days now.

schatzie

My concern would be for the turbo, not the engine. One of the major functions of oil in a turbo engine is lubing and cooling the turbo bearings.

A certain volume of oil is necessary to keep its temperature constant. If the oil gets too hot the turbo bearings could be damaged from overheating or lack of lubrication from heat-thinned oil. It might not fail for quite a while.

Maybe you could get an extended warranty out of them, especially for the turbo.

The engine should be fine if the pressure didn't drop to 0 for too long, even if there's only 1/2 qt in the sump. My ex (first one ) drove our '71 Datsun all day with a blinking oil light (not her fault). It didn't hurt it at all. We got rid of it later with 70+K miles on it, not burning oil.

Disclaimer: I'm just a shade-tree wrench, not an automotive engineer. If you believe me it's your fault.

My question is, who is this dealer?

IF you don't want to name names, at least tell us in what part of Oregon you are located?

Good luck. Be sure to do as many have suggested.. Call VW of NA, and get a file number. Then if you should happen to have problems later on down the road, you'll have that to fall back on.

No matter what, if the engine was run without oil, it's NOT the same engine you paid for. If it was me, I would have run that ***** till it was siezed in every possible way. I would have gotten a factory long-block out of them. Just my $.02

If the oil pressure warning light never came on, you're fine. As long as the pump didn't suck air, no damage was done.

Yell at them, and then relax.

-mickey

That being said, insist on a compression test just to make them jump through hoops.

Post the results here.

-mickey

This EXACT same thing happened to my friends '98 Jetta, w/ an exception. His plug didn't fall all the way out. He kept seeing oil under the car, and after a second look (50 miles on car since picked up at dealer) noticed the plug was about 3/4 of the way out.

If the car was driven with the oil plug gone, shoudn't this have set off the oil pressure light? How can the idiot light be tested and why didn't it illuminate in schatzie's situation?

Originally posted by Karl:

If the car was driven with the oil plug gone, shoudn't this have set off the oil pressure light? How can the idiot light be tested and why didn't it illuminate in schatzie's situation?[/QB]

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because he didn't drive it with the oil plug out.

Update--
Spoke to owner of dealership this AM:
He was somewhat up to speed on problem. When told that an undertermined amout of oil leaked during operation and that rest leaked overnight in garage, he replied that if the oil light (which I don't completely trust) didn't come on
"I can guarantee the engine didn't run low on oil"
I then asked for such a guarantee in writing in the form of a warranty extension for problems relating to the incident caused by his service dept; he reply was "I won't put that is writing because the car is not in my (the dealers) control 24 hrs/day and you could run it low in the future, put a quart in and bring it in because we're on the hook"
I decided to not get as angry as that statement should've made me and reminded him that the dealership lacks 24 hr control over all of the vehicles they sell under the warranty period and that THE ONLY DIFFERENCE OR VARIABLE IN THIS INSTANCE IS THAT HIS SERVICE DEPT MESSED UP--during a time when the vehicle WAS IN THEIR CONTROL.
I'm giving the dealer the rest of today to come up with a better solution, then will pursue other additional avenues as necessary.

schatzie

It's real simple: Turn the key "on" without starting the engine. If the low pressure idiot light glows, then the circuit and sensor are working correctly. (Haven't you ever wondered why all the lights come on when the key is "on"? It's a dignostic thing.)

If they're working correctly, and your light never came on during the "leaking incident", then your oil pressure never dropped below the minimum. And therefore, your engine is fine and dandy. Relax.

You should take your future business elsewhere, since that dealer is obviously incompetent, but you're not going to achieve anything but a raging ulcer if you keep pursuing this matter. If the warning system is functional, and the light never came on, then you don't have a problem. No damage was done. Why torture yourself?

-mickey

[ November 25, 2002, 10:35: Message edited by: mickey ]

Mickey-

good post about the diagnostics. I still want the dealer to be a bit more responsible for future related problems. Remember, if the oil light and sensor did its job, then perhaps no damage occured and therefore the dealer is taking no particular risk. I just don't want all the risk to be borne by me.

schatzie

what ever happened to the 100k powertrain warranty?

Oh yes, when oil pressure drops to 0, the light comes on and the engine is stopped by the ECU.

The ecu is not what's stopping the motor when oil pressure goes to zero.

Originally posted by VelvetFoot:
The ecu is not what's stopping the motor when oil pressure goes to zero.

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<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! ! Good one!

Update:

Dealer has not responded with a loaner car as provided under warranty, despite 3 separate requests to the salesman, service mgr and owner;

Owner told me yesterday that there are no noises in the car; that I'm the only one that hears them (which begs the question why the service dept. took it in 3 times for that, finally telling me the noises were "the nature of the beast" and recommended I get some whate grease and spray in the doors). Seems an odd recommendation for a mere Auditory Hallucination;

Finally, though the dealership asserts that the engine is undamaged, they will not extend any warranty for potential damage caused by their neglect.

Unable to resolve the issues locally, I have since called VW.

The dealership is
OVERTURF MOTORS
Kennewick, Wa
Owner is Doug Overturf.

schatzie

Spelling correction:

White Grease --not Whate Grease (doubt there is such a thing!)

Happy Thanksgiving!

schatzie