2009 Jetta TDI lift pump and aux pump failure

NineHighline

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Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
I'm new to this whole forum thing but I just have to share my TDI problem with others who can understand and relate. My car has 11,000 km's and at about 10,000 km the lift pump started to make a lot of noise (high pitched whine). I figured maybe it was just a bad tank of diesel, so I ran the tank down then topped it off. Noise didn't go away. Then I started searching online and all this information started coming up about hpfp failures and metal in the fuel system. So I got a new filter and started the process of changing mine, making sure to document the entire process with pics/videos. Sure enough when I cracked open that canister...the top of the filter had a significant dusting of glitter and a couple larger particles. I removed the old filter and fuel and saved it all in a sterile glass jar (in case I needed it for a future battle with VW). I installed the new filter, topped off the canister with fresh diesel and did a road test. Car ran great but the lift pump noise remained. So then I booked it in with my dealer (2 hrs away) and they ordered the part. I told them about the glitter in the fuel filter (showed them a pic too) and they denied anything and everything about hpfp failures. They told me strictly not to use any additives and adhere to the 8,000 km oci. Then not even 800 km later the auxillary fuel pump is making a buzzing noise, which is getting progessively louder. My initial plan was to just drive it until the fuel system failed, but the last thing I want is some sleezy tow-truck driver towing my car. I then checked the fuel filter again and found glitter on the top of the filter, but not as significant as on the original filter. So eventually I took the car to my local dealer to get their reaction. Of course they acted as though I was the only one with this problem and they'd never heard of any hpfp failures. Then one of the more experienced mechanics came out to have a look. He acknowledged the problem as the aux pump and that I wasn't the first one with this problem. I probed him about the hpfp and he just played dumb with me, denying my claims. I told him about the metal in the fuel filter, he said it would have come from the lift pump and asked if the other dealer flushed the lines. I told him the lift pump was plastic and metal contamination from it was impossible, and flushing the lines is pointless if the tank already has glitter in it. The service manager even told me there is a block on ordering the hpfp meaning they can't even order one without approval from VW. How would he know that? Did he have to order one before? Anyway, the whole conversation with the service manager and mechanic was very cloudy. I eventually agreed to let them change the aux pump and flush the lines. Suprisingly they had the aux pump in stock. However I couldn't get it booked in for a couple of weeks (the exact reason I avoid this dealership).

What do you think the fate of my car is? Should I cancel the appointment and drive the car until the aux pump or hpfp gives out? I'm afraid that if they change the aux pump it will just delay the death of the hpfp by another 10-20,000 km. I have used an additive in the winter, but only on the coldest of days (-40 c and colder). The additive was approved for use in ulsd and never caused a problem at the time. I've never put gas in the car (this is not my only diesel vehicle). I called VW Canada and complained but got nowhere. I mean, there just should not be ANY metal particles or glitter in the fuel system at all, especially at only 11,000 km. I'm at the point where I cannot rely on this car and am considering getting rid of it. Too bad because I've put alot of extras on the car (karthoum rims, chrome mirrors, stainless grill inserts, spoiler, and a bunch of 3M paint film) and would take a significant hit $$$. Another concern is how the resale value of these cars will be affected if this issue really gets known about.

I would insert a picture of my fuel filter but don't know how. As far as there being no hpfp failures or fuel system problems in Canada, obviously there is.
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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ARIZONA
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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012

DanG144

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2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
The block on ordering the HPFP is simply to flag it to VW - I think they will replace all of this, including the HPFP for you. Call the dealer, call VVOA, call customer help.

VW has some internal communication issues.

Ask them to follow up on the block on the HPFP, find out what the story is. I think this will end in your favor.
 

dweisel

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Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
So you think the metal particles/glitter is coming from the lift pump? What will happen if I continue to drive the car and the aux pump completely stops working?
The engine can run with a failed aux pump,but will not restart if it does fail.

Either have the dealership check the fuel quantity regulator or check it yourself. If you find metal particles in the fuel quantity regulator its a good sign the hpfp is on its way to failure.The metal particles you see on the fuel filter top are coming from the hpfp via the return fuel line that goes from the hpfp to the fuel filter canister. Seems like you are just going to have to run it until it quits for the dealership to do anything.

Good luck,
dweisel
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
Thanks for all the replies. It's a guarantee that the hpfp will not get replaced until the engine stops running. Would I get a check engine light is I was driving and the aux pump stopped working? How long would the car continue to run without it?
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
I've been searching the forum but cannot find a description of the FQR. I have a pretty good idea where it is, but can someone fill me in on the location and procedure for checking it?
Thanks!

I also found out that HPFP Model # 03L-130-755-A is the bad one. I went out and looked for my pump's model number...but cannot find it. Is it underneath the pump or by VIN only?
 
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dweisel

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Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
I've been searching the forum but cannot find a description of the FQR. I have a pretty good idea where it is, but can someone fill me in on the location and procedure for checking it?
Thanks!

I also found out that HPFP Model # 03L-130-755-A is the bad one. I went out and looked for my pump's model number...but cannot find it. Is it underneath the pump or by VIN only?
ALL the hpfp have the same Model # 03L-130-755-A. Hpfp tag is located sort of under the hpfp. Here is a link to help find and read it.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=292910

The FQR is ontop of the hpfp with the electrical plug going to it and has two torx bolts holding it on. You don't have to unplug the elec.connecting just remove the two torx and sort of wiggle it as you pull up. It will have a screen on it. Look for metal on the screen and down in the bowl where the FQR came out of.

Below pic: fuel quantity regulator on top of hpfp with elec connection


Below pic: FQR removed from hpfp. Note severe metal contamination particles.

 

dweisel

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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Thanks for all the replies. It's a guarantee that the hpfp will not get replaced until the engine stops running. Would I get a check engine light is I was driving and the aux pump stopped working? How long would the car continue to run without it?
Sorry, I can't answer that one for you as the only info I have is what I've read in the Study Guide. No real world experience to help you out on that one.
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
Sorry, I can't answer that one for you as the only info I have is what I've read in the Study Guide. No real world experience to help you out on that one.
Thank you so so much for the pictures and information, you are an unbelievable help. I will check my FQR today and post the results. I don't have VCDS, so hopefully it doesn't need to be primed after removing the FQR.

Thanks again!
 

dweisel

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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Thank you so so much for the pictures and information, you are an unbelievable help. I will check my FQR today and post the results. I don't have VCDS, so hopefully it doesn't need to be primed after removing the FQR.

Thanks again!
In reality I really wish I knew nothing about hpfps and it was just another part of the fuel system that lasted the life of the car.
 
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NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
I just checked my FQR and it was pretty much clean. There was 1 small glitter spec, but otherwise 100% clean. I forgot to mention that the aux pump does not make noise until the engine is at operating temperature. Is this pump mechanically or electrically driven? I wonder what would cause it to make that noise...bypass valve maybe?

Another thing to note is the fuel I have been using. I checked in with the Co-op and all their diesel fuel (EP3000 and standard, both summer and winter grades) have a lubricity rating of <460 HFRR. If you ask anyone in Western Canada who has the crappiest fuel and petroleum products, hands down it's the Co-op. Anything else is better (and I speak from personal experience...their gas gives you lower mpg and destroys carbs). Irregardless, the diesel fuel I use should be a non issue for the TDI engine. I put 40,000 km on a 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel with no additives and no problems. I have 50,000 km on a 2010 Ram 2500 Diesel also with no problems to speak of. And I stressed those engines to the max pulling overweight loads and also using exclusively Co-op diesel. So why is there HPFP problems coming from a manufacturer that has been producing diesel engines for at least 35+ years? Surely they should have it right by now! If you ask me, the hpfp is poorly designed and should be recalled.
 

DPM

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it's an electric roller-ring pump, just like the one in the tank unit, and as used on just about all gassers in the past twenty years. Have a search, I posted pics of a failed pump from my Suzuki a few years back and the failure mode was a worn-out commutator in the (immersed in fuel) motor. At around 150k miles, and producing brass swarf in the process. The roller-cell- with it's blue antifriction coating- was perfect.
 

dweisel

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Wheeling, West Virginia
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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
I just checked my FQR and it was pretty much clean. There was 1 small glitter spec, but otherwise 100% clean. I forgot to mention that the aux pump does not make noise until the engine is at operating temperature. Is this pump mechanically or electrically driven? I wonder what would cause it to make that noise...bypass valve maybe?



No by-pass on the aux fuel pump. Fuel actually runs through the motor of the pump. There have been a few on here that have failed,not many. One over on myturbodiesel.com that was making noise and the owner was going to replace it himself. I don't recall that he posted the results. Here is a link to that thread.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f7/noisy-auxiliary-fuel-pump-6535/

Below pic: aux fuel pump

 
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dweisel

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Wheeling, West Virginia
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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
I don't know whether the dealership worked on your fuel system prior to the aux fuel pump noise,but here is some info from VW Tech about a noisey aux fuel pump and they are telling the dealer tech to check for improperly installed fuel lines that may have been placed on the opposite fitting of where they are supposed to be. In other words the fuel supply on the fuel return and vise versa. See paragraph below in { }

ADVISED BRENT IF THERE IS METAL IN THE FUEL SYSTEM PLEASE CONTACT YOUR FOM. REPLACE THE FOLLOWING
COMPONENTS> 03L 130 321-(LINE), 03L 130 301-(PRESSURE LINE), 03L 130 089-(RAIL), 5N0 130 307J-(LINE), 1K0 127
400F-(FILTER), 03L 130 235K-(RETURN LINE), 03L 130 277A-(INJECTORS), 03L 130 301R-(PRESSURE LINE), 03L 130
301B-(PRESSURE LINE), 03L 130 301C-(PRESSURE LINE), 1K0 201 060 GP-(FUEL TANK), 5N0 906 129B-(AUXILIARY
PUMP), 03L 130 755 A-(HIGH PRESSURE PUMP), 1K0 919 050 J-(IN TANK FUEL PUMP). PLEASE CONSULT ETKA FOR THE
LATEST PART # ON ALL COMPONENTS. ANY LINE THAT IS NOT REPLACED IN THIS PROCEDURE MUST BE
THOROUGHLY CLEANED. IF YOU CANNOT ADEQUATELY CLEAN THE LINE/FITTING, PLEASE REPLACE IT ALSO.
PLEASE FOLLOW ELSA WEB'S PROCEDURE FOR PRIMING THE FUEL SYSTEM. BE SURE NOT TO SWAP THE
CONNECTIONS IN THE FUEL SYSTEM. IT IS VERY EASY TO SWAP A FUEL FEED LINE FOR A FUEL RETURN LINE. THE

{CONNECTIONS AT THE FUEL TANK, BULKHEAD, FUEL FILTER, AND HIGH PRESSURE PUMP CAN BE SWITCHED. IF YOU
HEAR A HUMMING NOISE FROM THE AUX FUEL PUMP, IT IS LIKELY THAT A FUEL LINE WAS INSTALLED INCORRECTLY.}

IF THE GF TEST PLAN DOES NOT SHOW UP, GO INTO VSD, ENGINE ELECTRONICS, BASIC SETTINGS, 35 AND RUN THIS​
TEST 3 TIMES. THERE IS A PART BLOCK ON THE
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
There was one poster on this site that had a noisy aux fuel pump, and replaced it, and it was still noisy...can't locate the thread.
Yeah I remember reading that one. I think he put gas in it and had some service center drain it out. Then his aux pump started making noise and he replaced it himself because he was out of warranty. Only thing is...my car has never had gas in it. Oh well, things do fail I guess. I'm just hoping something good comes out of the NHTSA case, like at least an extended warranty or something. And after I get that aux pump changed I'm going to start using an additive.
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
I don't know whether the dealership worked on your fuel system prior to the aux fuel pump noise,but here is some info from VW Tech about a noisey aux fuel pump and they are telling the dealer tech to check for improperly installed fuel lines that may have been placed on the opposite fitting of where they are supposed to be. In other words the fuel supply on the fuel return and vise versa.
Yes, I was asked whether the other dealer inspected the fuel lines for any "kinks". I told them that I imagine they would have (the other dealer 2 hrs away, my purchase dealer, is the best in the province). The local dealer said they would check again, possibly inspect the lift pump and tank for metal contamination and flush the lines. I can't see there being any mixed up lines though as the car has no driveability issues whatsoever, just a very noise aux pump. The dealer has had other aux pump failures...and the mechanic did mention about the kinked lines twice. Thanks Dweisel for all the help and information you've provided, I appreciate it very much!
 
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NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
So I took the car to my local dealer for repair. They replaced the auxillary pump, disconnected the supply and return lines and flushed them out (made a real mess on the right side of the engine bay :mad:), checked the lift pump, tank and fuel filter canister for glitter, then installed another new filter. They claimed they found no glitter or metal contamination anywhere, but they can't fool me. I told them if the hpfp goes then I'll point my finger and say "I told you so." Afterwards I put some additive in and filled the tank with fresh diesel. I didn't tell them (vw) I was going to start using an additive, but after all this trouble I don't give a s%#t and I'm doing it anyway. When I was at the ford dealer (getting parts for my stupid f150 :mad:) I picked up their new "Cetane Booster and Performance Improver" additive specially designed for ulsd and the 6.4 and 6.7 powerstrokes (GM and Dodge have no OEM additives, I checked). I figured I'd give it a try since it's strongly recommended by ford for their newer diesel engines...so why would it hurt or void the warranty on my jetta. After a day of driving, I can positively say that it's definately made the engine smoother and quieter (less clatter and noise at idle)...so maybe the added lubricity from the additive is doing it's job. I will continue to use this additive if the positive effects remain, and in 5,000 km I'll check the fuel filter again for glitter...and hopefully (crossing fingers) I won't find any.
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
Here's the GM additive. It may have a different P/N in Canada.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=320142
Thanks El Dobro for that link. I don't think we have that here in Canada because I checked two different dealers (each in different cities) and they were unaware of a GM/Ac Delco additive for the dmax. They didn't say "no don't use an additive" but rather said they sell lots of different kinds at Canadian Tire, Napa, and so on. After looking for more info online about the Motorcraft stuff, multiple sources claimed it is made by Stanadyne for Ford. Thats fine by me because I can't find the Stanadyne stuff anywhere locally! Ideally I'd like to have the Opti-lube XPD. Might have to order some, eh?
 

That Guy

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2001 MKiv Golf TDI
I just bought some Opti-Lube XPD yesterday for the first time.

Turns out their distributer for Canada is here in Edmonton. I just dropped by his shop and picked up a liter. Nice guy...really into his vehicles. Owns two semis and a few other vehicles. Seems down to earth, and full of good info.

Bruce Dundas
optilubecanada@gmail.com


I'm trying it out in my 2001. I'm always skeptical...but the reviews are good...so we'll see how it goes.
 

740GLE

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2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I just bought some Opti-Lube XPD yesterday for the first time.

Turns out their distributer for Canada is here in Edmonton. I just dropped by his shop and picked up a liter. Nice guy...really into his vehicles. Owns two semis and a few other vehicles. Seems down to earth, and full of good info.

Bruce Dundas
optilubecanada@gmail.com


I'm trying it out in my 2001. I'm always skeptical...but the reviews are good...so we'll see how it goes.
i'm 100% positive you won't have any HPFP problems ;)
 

NineHighline

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2011
Location
Canada
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Highline
I just bought some Opti-Lube XPD yesterday for the first time.

Turns out their distributer for Canada is here in Edmonton. I just dropped by his shop and picked up a liter. Nice guy...really into his vehicles. Owns two semis and a few other vehicles. Seems down to earth, and full of good info.

Bruce Dundas
optilubecanada@gmail.com


I'm trying it out in my 2001. I'm always skeptical...but the reviews are good...so we'll see how it goes.
That's good to know someone handles Opti-lube in western canada. I'm usually in Edmonton about twice a year, so thanks ThatGuy for the email link. I wonder if there are any distributors in the northern states (ND, SD, MT)? I looooove Montana! I shop there quite often actually.
 
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