ToeBall
Veteran Member
CJAA was the early CR140 in the US, replaced by CBEA. Basic differences are in the emissions systems. Combining Diesel Ox cat in the same housing as the DPF, some changes to the intake/exhaust plumbing, things of that nature.
2009 2.0 140 CR tuning .. going beyond the software
- Thread starter rootrider
- Start date
pleopard
Veteran Member
CBEA was released for 2009 MY cars. 2010 cars use the CJAA engine.
ToeBall
Veteran Member
Whoops, yeah, slight lisdexic moment... also should note that the CBEA had the DPF and NOx cat in the same housing. They both have the Diesel Ox cat as part of the DPF.
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Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Incorrect....
All "Clean diesels" thru the 2012 model years use a DPF that strictly reduces HC, CO, PM only.
All DPF's have the oxidizing catalyst mounted first to pre-treat the incoming exhaust gas and lower the particulate levels thus minimizing the DPF regens. NOx is not removed by either the Oxidizing catalyst or DPF because of limitations of the oxygen rich environment of the diesel exhaust stream.
There is no built in function of the DPF to reduce any amount of NOx, NOx reductions are relegated to the pre-treatment of the incoming air charge, retarded injection timing and other contributing factors that lower peak combustion temperatures resulting in lower NOx formation.
Post treatment for NOx is strictly relagated to the SCR systems (Post DPF) where urea is injected (or in the case of early VW TDI's De-NOX/De-SOx are employed) to remove the leftover NOx from the exhaust.
All "Clean diesels" thru the 2012 model years use a DPF that strictly reduces HC, CO, PM only.
All DPF's have the oxidizing catalyst mounted first to pre-treat the incoming exhaust gas and lower the particulate levels thus minimizing the DPF regens. NOx is not removed by either the Oxidizing catalyst or DPF because of limitations of the oxygen rich environment of the diesel exhaust stream.
There is no built in function of the DPF to reduce any amount of NOx, NOx reductions are relegated to the pre-treatment of the incoming air charge, retarded injection timing and other contributing factors that lower peak combustion temperatures resulting in lower NOx formation.
Post treatment for NOx is strictly relagated to the SCR systems (Post DPF) where urea is injected (or in the case of early VW TDI's De-NOX/De-SOx are employed) to remove the leftover NOx from the exhaust.
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Mark@MaloneTuning
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- TDI
- '14 GSW TDI, '11 Golf TDI, '97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L TDI, '96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI, '93 Eurovan Westfalia 1.9L TDI, '09 BMW 335d, '17 BMW 328d
If it's hot outside and if you hold the pedal to the floor long enough, the EGT limiter may start restricting power. That's a good thing as it protects your engine.
Yes. Here's a chart from 2011 Jetta 2.0L CR TDI CJAA with a straight-thru 3" exhaust and aggressive tune (a bit more aggressive than our standard Stage 2):
At ~3700+ RPM the N75 duty cycle is 0%.
rootrider
Veteran Member
not being familiar with this issue.. can you explain it a little?
Mark@MaloneTuning
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- TDI
- '14 GSW TDI, '11 Golf TDI, '97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L TDI, '96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI, '93 Eurovan Westfalia 1.9L TDI, '09 BMW 335d, '17 BMW 328d
Boost creep is briefly described on this page:
http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=2
Basically put, the turbo is driven by exhaust gas and smaller turbos can be overwhelmed by too much exhaust flow. The only solution to reduce creep is to make the tune milder, use a more restrictive exhaust, or install a larger turbine. I have seen upgraded air intake contribute to boost creep, too.
http://malonetuning.com/?page_id=2
Basically put, the turbo is driven by exhaust gas and smaller turbos can be overwhelmed by too much exhaust flow. The only solution to reduce creep is to make the tune milder, use a more restrictive exhaust, or install a larger turbine. I have seen upgraded air intake contribute to boost creep, too.
ryanp
Vendor
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2008
- Location
- Barnsley, South Yorkshire, UK
- TDI
- Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
Opening the vanes slightly will help the boost creep, almost every aggressively tuned car needs the rod making a couple of turns longer. Fitting a larger turbo is a better cure, haha!
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
Lower quality compressor, lower temperature turbine....pure downgrade!A 1756vk or 2056vk would work wonders on a CR imo.
Ash
Pete, what you are saying is that a stock turbo which will have a better or higher quality compression, a slightly higher turbine temperature will perform better than a larger turbo. When do you know when its the right time to upgrade the turbo then?
Mark@MaloneTuning
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- TDI
- '14 GSW TDI, '11 Golf TDI, '97 Golf Variant Syncro 1.9L TDI, '96 Golf 1.9L ASV TDI, '93 Eurovan Westfalia 1.9L TDI, '09 BMW 335d, '17 BMW 328d
I wouldn't call it a pure downgrade. The GTB turbos may be older technology, but in the real world I had positive results with a GTB2260VK on an Euro 170HP CR TDI: It made 235bhp smoke-free with stock injectors and stock rail pressure. Torque was a minimum of 400Nm between 2300-4000 RPM. Although there are more modern VNT alternatives out there, they tend to be much more expensive or more difficult to obtain (read: less potential for a mass-produced turbo kit).
Certain GTBs came off an Audi 3.0L V6 TDI and they're far from being ancient technology.
Like the VNT-15, a VNT-17 is old technology, yet it works very nicely in our 2004-2006 BEW TDI (replacing the original Borg-Warner KP39 w/ the smart actuator). This setup is extremely popular as you already know, and there are no significant longevity issues.
It will be interesting to see how much demand there will be to raise the 2.0L CR TDI's factory EGT limiter from 1427F* to well over 1650F.
* The factory EGT limiter may vary depending on ECU SW.
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Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 1998
- Location
- Boise, Idaho
- TDI
- 2013 Passat TDI, Newmar Ventana 8.3L ISC 3945, 2016 E250 BT, 2000 Jetta TDI
I would be curious the effects of higher sustained "TIT" thus increasing the average temperature of the DPF (perpetual burn-off - to a point negating the effects of increased soot output?). Also if there is a max reference pressure for the Oxizing catalyst and DPF ceramic substrate.
I am planning to do a stage 2 upgrade on my B6 Passat 2.0 TDi, I have done a stage 1 revo remap 185 bhp, 393 nm of torque, and got it decat as well. So probably pushing around 190ish.
I spoke to Revo, and they said for a stage 2 upgrade, I will need a bigger turbo, was thinking hybrid turbo, Miltek exhaust system, was thinking of a custom exhaust, and a panel filter, was thinking of an APR induction kit.
When I mentioned about the clutch and FMI they said it is not recommanded, as the original clutch should be fine with the stage 2 upgrade.
I am planning to do this in September 2012. Am I going in the right direction?
Zeb
I spoke to Revo, and they said for a stage 2 upgrade, I will need a bigger turbo, was thinking hybrid turbo, Miltek exhaust system, was thinking of a custom exhaust, and a panel filter, was thinking of an APR induction kit.
When I mentioned about the clutch and FMI they said it is not recommanded, as the original clutch should be fine with the stage 2 upgrade.
I am planning to do this in September 2012. Am I going in the right direction?
Zeb
I
ihatespeed
Guest
I'm malone stage 1.something, full PDE exhaust, the car runs like a champ, better millage too, sounds tough, bit of turbo whistle, completely tolerable, I started with the full stage two, but backed it off due to clutch chatter, had a bit of a shudder between 1900-2000 rpm in 5th and 6th, either I have a better than average engine or a worse than average clutch. kyle was very accommodating with the retune, and I'm more than pleased with the whole experience . very little smoke, can't hardly even smell it unless it is cold and wet out. overall the car is way better.
I need a stock map !!!?!?!?
I have a 6mt TDI csan you help ?
I have a 6mt TDI csan you help ?
if you're interested in what I've done to my car so far, the history of the car, etc., please check the link in my sig for details before asking questions. I update that page regularly to match current info.
first, I've had Revo software on the car since November. I know my Revo dealer well and was talking to him about a few minor issues I had noticed. He talked to Revo and they mentioned having some updated software, but they suggested that I take my car into a VW dealer first to have my ECU's software updated to the latest available for my car. I then took the car back to the Revo dealer, who passed the new software code on to Revo. Revo stated they'd never seen the code before so they had us scan the ECU and send them the file. A month later Revo got back to my dealer and told us that VW had updated my ECU to the ~2009.5 & later software, which is locked out. So now the ECU needs to be benched. I expect to take the car in today to have it rescanned and then we'll go from there.
So that's where the car sits right now. I've tracked and autocrossed the car a few times and am looking for ways to work on increasing the power while maintaining daily driver reliable status. I've averaged around 30k miles each year on this car, and I'd like to continue to be able to do so for the foreseeable future. I'm not looking for or expecting huge numbers.. I'm looking for something that can get the whp up to around the 170 - 190hp range, and ft-lb torque above 300 to the wheels.
One thing I will be doing at some point is working on limiting heat soak issues. Whether this means upgrading the intercooler or just spraying something onto or into the system to keep it cool.. I don't really care. I just want to work on limiting issues with the car getting slower as it's being used throughout the day.
Has anyone here done more work on these engines beyond software tuning, exhaust, and removing emissions parts yet? I'd like to try and upgrade the injectors, similar to what the 170hp European version sees, but I'm figuring that this will require custom software as well?
That's my basic question though. It's not easy searching for 2.0 CR specific threads on a site that's mostly dealing with mk4's and 1.9L engines. If you know of any existing threads that might help I'd love for the links. Are there suggestions for who I could call or talk to who might have some experience with these engines? Has anyone done this at all?
Most every 2.0 CR car I've seen online has had only the basic work done: software, pulley, software tuning, intake, exhaust, dpf removal. I won't be removing the dpf any time soon, and I'm well aware that intake & exhaust will do mostly nothing for the car. I'm looking for some real answers... or maybe just a lot of people who can tell me that no one's done this yet
the car:
