made a twin disk flywheel

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
So, got bored and stuff. Here's the results.
Jig to hold it to the rotab took about 8 hours to make.

Milling out the bulk of the material, mainly to learn about the mill, and also because doing it all on the brake lathe would suck.

Pretty good hogging pass for a crappy italian bridgeport clone that was $1200, rotary table, vise, and collets included.

Done on the mill more or less.

Skip a few steps because I forgot to take pics, and there you are.

The flywheel was turned on the brake lathe, both the surface and the sides of the "pot", mainly because I don't want iron
on my lathe's ways.
The ring gear came off, and the slots for the drive lugs were milled in there, then the ring gear pressed (hammered) back on.
Floater plate and the spacer ring were both made out of brake rotors, because cheap.
You can see in the upper right there are some balance holes I drilled, balanced it on the tire balancer at work, heh. Figured
.35oz is close enough for me, parts'll flop around in there quite a bit anyways.

Floater has the step in it both to clear the spacer ring, and to add drive lug meat.

Didn't know if the not all that supported starter ring gear wouldn't just spin on the decreased bearing surface, so I made the
spacer plate such that it presses on the ring gear first, and has about .005" clearance before touching the flywheel's iron.


Pics are huge and untrimmed because MS paint doesn't seem to want to work under wine in loonicks.
Gonna use two stock DMF friction discs , just gotta cut the drive hubs down a bit so they all stack in there and don't rub on
the input bearing retainer's snout.
You know there's only 1/32" of clearance with the sachs DMF setup to the final drive housing in the bellhousing? Bad design.
Luckily the 2L gas flywheel has 7mm of extra room in there. First thought it wasn't going to work until I figured that bit out.
Oh, and another interesting thing for those who have done a clutch job and wondered why it only fits pp-flywheel one way, the
bolts are all equally spaced, the alignment dowels are more or less, one of them is a single, one (1) degree off to one side, to
line up the slots in the pp fingers with the crank bolts.
 
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[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
What's a twin dick?
hahahaha
A typo.

Let's see if I can edit that. ETA: nope, guess I'm stuck with it. I'll try deleting and reposting. ETA2: guess I can't do that either. Well heck.
 

andy2

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2004
Location
Bowmanville,Ontario,Canada
TDI
13 Jetta,94 Golf drag car 585bhp,Samurai buggy BHW 300bhp,97 Ram cummins
Lots of nice work there,looks top notch! The unsprung disc's should be interesting as your flywheel is obviously light.Should be silent I just wonder how it will act on the road compared to a sprung disc.My spec twin disc setup for the drag car is not too heavy either and is unsprung also.

I was tempted to try an upsprung 4 pad disc on my daily but did some searching and figured I'd stick with sprung.I still wonder how it would work with a daily driver.

Are you going to use the DMF pressure plate ? Might need to put a bit more than stock clamping force even with 2 fresh disc's.vr6 pressure plate would be a good start.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Lots of nice work there,looks top notch! The unsprung disc's should be interesting as your flywheel is obviously
light.Should be silent I just wonder how it will act on the road compared to a sprung disc.My spec twin disc setup
for the drag car is not too heavy either and is unsprung also.

I was tempted to try an upsprung 4 pad disc on my daily but did some searching and figured I'd stick with sprung.
I still wonder how it would work with a daily driver.

Are you going to use the DMF pressure plate ? Might need to put a bit more than stock clamping force even with
2 fresh disc's.vr6 pressure plate would be a good start.
The springs in the clutch hub are not for damping any sort of vibration, they're for hitting curbs, potholes and stuff.
Keeping 'hard' shock loads off the drivetrain. They may work back and forth when you're lugging the engine down
and putting far too much torque through it at too low of an RPM, but when that is happening they are being worked
back and forth far past their design properties, and they will fail very quickly. Then you have spring bits flying about
in the far too small bellhousing. A new trans case is the result.
.
I'm pretty sure it'll end up spitting a few gears out in chunks eventually, even with the stock pressure plate. Figure it's
nicer on the TO bearing, and the crank thrust bearings. On all the high dollar multidisk (almost typed dick again there)
clutch sites they seem to rate the holding power of their clutches linearly with the amount of discs, ie, "white"
diaphragm spring is rated at 120ft/lbs single, 240 dual, and 360 triple disc, so going with the stock rating of something
like 250 ft/lbs this should be good for 500ft/lbs, more than I hope to ever make with this transmission.
.
On the weight, I was trying to keep it heavy as possible, in fact, I'd love a 30lb+ flywheel if it were possible to fit it in
there with the rest, I might be able to sneak in a couple more lbs with a billet flywheel, this one has very generous
clearance for the rear main seal.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH





Found some more pics on my phone in the interim where I thought I forgot to take pics. All this was 2 weeks ago,
figured I wouldn't post anything until the thing was done. Trying to avoid posting half a project then losing interest.

ETA: second pic is to show that I used a corner radius end mill for the slots, to eliminate the stress riser of a
sharp corner right at the crotch of the slots. Do not want twenty pounds of cast iron coming apart at 5k RPM.
 

Mikkijayne

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Devon, UK
TDI
Audi S8
Wow nice work :) I've been thinking about this for a while, but don't have access to the machinery to make it.

How did you get the starter ring off ?
 

alhdude

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Location
London Ont
TDI
2001 Jetta 5 spd TDI
Wow nice work :) I've been thinking about this for a while, but don't have access to the machinery to make it.

How did you get the starter ring off ?
Just guessing but usually with a little heat applied those ring gears come right off quite easily.


Nice job on the machining!
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Wow nice work :) I've been thinking about this for a while, but don't have access to the machinery to make it.

How did you get the starter ring off ?
Hammer and a chisel. Tried heating it with propane, the oxy acet heats quick enough to get them off, but didn't want to screw with it.

Oh, and this ain't any sort of DMF, those flywheels have the ring gear welded on. Pretty sure it's a friction weld too. Stock 2L gasoline flywheel.
 

mk3pd

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Location
Norway
TDI
Passat Quattro :)
Do the input shaft have long enough splines for this?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Do the input shaft have long enough splines for this?
Honest, I've measured.

I haven't looked at the figures yet, but it'll work. I'll make it work. The splined drive hubs will need to be
thinned on the lathe, and which direction I thin them in is entirely dependent on where the input shaft lines
up, as its protruding splines are only really the length of one of the splined hubs.
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Awesome, mad skills, :)
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Never got around to putting it in. Decided the 02j is a bit more saleable as a functional unit than one blown to little crunchy bits.

uhh, got an ex-nascar triple disc quarter master for $120, and will be fitting it along with an 0a6 at some point. Just working on making the Tcase fit onto it, then making a button flywheel and ring gear set for the 7.25" clutch...
 

turbovan+tdi

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Abbotsford, BC.
TDI
2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Wish I had some of your skill, thumb's up.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Roight so!
I made a different one for the 0A6 I picked up recently. Didn't manage to get any pics of it early on, was
just a flame cut 12.375" ring out of 4" hot rolled plate. Ugly and not very round. Spent days roughing
it out on the rotary table cursing the lack of rigidity in a bridgeport series 1 spindle.
Then spent a couple weeks making a riser block for the lathe to get some more swing so I could turn it, as the lathe could only swing 11.75" over the ways despite being advertised as a 12X36" lathe...

Spacer for the toolpost.

you can see the block under the headstock
Anyways, got a 7.25" quartermaster triple disc for $120 on ebay with almost no wear.
here's the disc pack

here's the back side of the button flywheel

and the front

the drive lug ring for the clutch drops on located by the step

then of course it's gotta be heavy, so the big metal bolts on over the top of all that stuff,

some turning shots of that mess

I flipped it in the 4 jaw 3 times to get it all proper

then this one is finished, before dropping the ring gear on.

Drilled holes so the clutch through bolts hold this onto the button flywheel and clutch assembly that's bolted to the crank.
Counterbored them so the nuts would clear the trans case and all that, no pics of that, or it assembled, I'll have to take them
sometime.
Oh, and when I was test fitting it earlier today I noticed the big ring hits the bellhousing dowel tubes before being bolted all
the way down. Long story short, you know how to measure accurately with a tape? Hold it on the 1" mark, then subtract it
afterwords.
I forgot to subtract.
So, I spent about a hundred extra bucks on metal, and a few extra weeks, and made riser
blocks for my lathe because of such a simple little error. I'm not a happy person right now, haha. So, tomorrow I'll get to
indicate it back in on the lathe, take off about an inch of the diameter, then finagle it back onto the crank, which is a very
tight clearance as the button flywheel's OD is what locates the big ring with about a thousandth of clearance. Ever try and
take off a rod cap with your hands? Gotta be real gentle and at the slightest misalignment it siezes up solid. Now imagine
those bolts are 8" apart, and the cap's 60lbs, and you're holding it above your head lying on your back in a 10F garage.
 
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oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Roight so!
I made a different one for the 0A6 I picked up recently. Didn't manage to get any pics of it early on, was
just a flame cut 12.375" ring out of 4" hot rolled plate. Ugly and not very round. Spent days roughing
it out on the rotary table cursing the lack of rigidity in a bridgeport series 1 spindle.
Then spent a couple weeks making a riser block for the lathe to get some more swing so I could turn it, as the lathe could only swing 11.75" over the ways despite being advertised as a 12X36" lathe...

Spacer for the toolpost.

you can see the block under the headstock
Anyways, got a 7.25" quartermaster triple disc for $120 on ebay with almost no wear.
here's the disc pack

here's the back side of the button flywheel

and the front

the drive lug ring for the clutch drops on located by the step

then of course it's gotta be heavy, so the big metal bolts on over the top of all that stuff,

some turning shots of that mess

I flipped it in the 4 jaw 3 times to get it all proper

then this one is finished, before dropping the ring gear on.

Drilled holes so the clutch through bolts hold this onto the button flywheel and clutch assembly that's bolted to the crank.
Counterbored them so the nuts would clear the trans case and all that, no pics of that, or it assembled, I'll have to take them
sometime.
Oh, and when I was test fitting it earlier today I noticed the big ring hits the bellhousing dowel tubes before being bolted all
the way down. Long story short, you know how to measure accurately with a tape? Hold it on the 1" mark, then subtract it
afterwords.
I forgot to subtract.
So, I spent about a hundred extra bucks on metal, and a few extra weeks, and made riser
blocks for my lathe because of such a simple little error. I'm not a happy person right now, haha. So, tomorrow I'll get to
indicate it back in on the lathe, take off about an inch of the diameter, then finagle it back onto the crank, which is a very
tight clearance as the button flywheel's OD is what locates the big ring with about a thousandth of clearance. Ever try and
take off a rod cap with your hands? Gotta be real gentle and at the slightest misalignment it siezes up solid. Now imagine
those bolts are 8" apart, and the cap's 60lbs, and you're holding it above your head lying on your back in a 10F garage.
Heat it up to make it bigger?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
oh god my scrolling finger please don't quote pics

Yeah, I could do that, just like when I dropped the ring gear on it was about 700F. The thing is that I do not want debris to get in there
between the parts, as the whole thing has to be assembled and disassembled to take the clutch off the button FW to get at the crank
bolts. Also, it is very heavy, and making it really hot and really heavy means I'll likely lose a lot of skin wrestling it up and on there.
It is just a bit fiddly to get it together. No big deal.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Ahhh, shiny!! I wouldn't feel too bad about the measurement goof, we all screw up sometimes. But not all of us can fab up custom parts like that- nice job!
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
You could also heat one piece a little, and cool the other. That's what I do when replacing crank bearings in my husky chainsaws.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Rightieo
made a bushing for the pilot on my GM clutch tool outta PVC

Slapped that ring biscuit on there

With the subframe out there's a crazy amount of room under here, shoulda done this long ago.

Discs and floaters in

PP and cover in/on

Then, take all that off so you can remember to put the crank bolts in with loctite and put it all back on

Going to make a cutter holder dingus to take those bolts down to length in place, I could drop the oil
pan and do them one at a time that way... actually the LP turbo oil drain does take up room the tcase
will be taking up, so it has to come off anyways. I'll have to think on that.
 

Machineman

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Location
ontario canada
TDI
2007 RS4 Titanium 3.0TDI & 2013 Touareg TDI & B6 S4 BHW Swap Biturbo
Looking good did you give up on your first twin disk idea ? What turbo is that? :)
 

Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta, 03 TT TDI
Cool stuff - Do you have an approximate weight of the whole rotating assembly? I've seriously considered taking an existing flywheel and machining out a bunch of pockets to fill with mallory.


I see you also remembered to put the tin on before the flywheel bolts with loctite (the first picture does not have it on :)). I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten that darn tin piece :eek:
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Looking good did you give up on your first twin disk idea ? What turbo is that? :)
I'm running gt1752S in a VNT turbine housing then a TD04HL-19T-7cm as a low pressure unit. Details in "compounds" link in sig.
Cool stuff - Do you have an approximate weight of the whole rotating assembly?
I've seriously considered taking an existing flywheel and machining out a bunch of pockets to fill with mallory.
I see you also remembered to put the tin on before the flywheel bolts with loctite (the first picture does not have it on :)).
I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten that darn tin piece :eek:
tungsten's expensive, enough to make a difference in a flywheel would be significantly more than just
a new piece of iron to utilize all of the room available in the bellhousing. 11.375" OD, remember that so you don't
go buying metal an inch bigger than that. like I did :p

the block plate has a cut in it so I can snake it in. Had to do that last time I did it when I bought fancy new TTY bolts.

No weight, really should have weighed it in hindsight. Oh well.
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
All right, got it in, tentatively.

had to take it all apart five or six times, wrecked one of my triple disc's discs, spent the big bucks and got sent the wrong stuff...

So, there are troubles with the spline length, well not so much the spline length as the fact that my button flywheel should have been 8mm thicker. I just made it out of 1" plate, then made the rest around that. Splines weren't catching the disc on the FW, could do it with the "end hub" flipped in, but then it'll hit the center disc's hub. Bored the hub out of the center disc and was going to rivet on another hub to it with pins to extend through one of the end discs to provide drive and location without needing input shaft contact. Turned some nice rivets, cracked the hub and bent the disc putting them in. My press has a lot of wobble in it when mashing on stuff.

So, got some .250" thick "rally" discs made up and am going to use them as a twin disc setup.
Had to make a washer thing to fit on the TO bearing in order to properly contact the PP fingers on a radius rather than the flat TO bearing surface. Common multidisc clutch thing, they don't put the radius on the fingers, they put it on the bearing.

Wrangled the trans in there, not certain if I'll put the pics here or over in my 0A6 thread, or the compounds thread that is a good catch-all for all the assorted junk I'm doing to the thing.
Gotta find some longer shift cables and figure out what I'm doing far as axles. Might be driving by the time it's warm enough to comfortably drive it.
 
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