DSG Hard Shifts and Bucking out of/into 1st

TDI Stevestr · Nov 3, 2011

Help!

I was driving today on the freeway in "S" and all of a sudden the car did a hard shift (It has never shifted hard since bought new in May). Ever since that hard shift there is now a whine that increases/decreases with engine speed and a slight vibration tuned to the whine can be felt through the gear selector.

No flashing "D" or any other idiot lights and I haven't run VCDS on it yet but has anyone heard of this happening? Any leads that I can have as I go back to the with as it heads in for service?

Mostly this seems to now be occurring when slowing down for or speeding away from traffic signals - when slowing down on occasion the car feels as if it is bucking as it tries to go into 1st. However it also occurred as I was getting up to speed from an onramp onto the freeway.

The problem is noticeable in both "D" and "S" and a couple of shifts were so hard and delayed they freaked me out on the freeway and I had to take surface streets home. When put in "R" the car seems to not reverse smoothly.

14200 on the odometer so it is still under warranty - just looking for a place to start researching. Search didn't pull up anything useful.

motoblue · Nov 3, 2011

That used to happen on my 09 that ended up being part of the bad bushing/mechatronics recall. No error codes ever thrown. Just hard shifting in and out of 1.

Fordcougar · Nov 3, 2011

I just experienced this in a parking lot, just poking around looking for a spot, and it started bucking... was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

El Dobro · Nov 3, 2011

Welcome to the unpredictable world of the DSG.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 3, 2011

Sadly this is more than a parking lot issue. I got used to the low speed hesitation in 1st and that doesn't scare me as much as the "at speed" 1-2 lurching and bucking.

Now how to convince the dealer since it is not consistent. Sigh.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

motoblue · Nov 4, 2011

That reminds me, if the problem is subtle/only happens in very specific circumstances/no fault codes were recorded, be prepared for the old dealer standby, CNR – could not replicate. If you can, ride with the tech when they take your car for the test drive.

Gotta admit, though, they never did acknowledge something wrong with the DSG until the Mechatronics replacement campaign was announced months later.

GL!

BarryT82 · Nov 4, 2011

Our JSW jerks hard in 1st gear if you barely press the accelerator or if you're costing along and press it a little.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 4, 2011

Thanks for your help Barry but this is a problem that just developed after a hard shift from nowhere on the freeway. I know the jerk you are describing, especially at low speed in parking lots, and this is not it.

Motoblue, I know that is what they'll say when I bring it in unless it is immediately reproducible. Sigh. When the tranny was working it was great, but now after only 14,200 I am scared that even if the unit is replaced it will just pop again.

I'm not hard on the tranny but then again I am in Colorado and we do have mountains. I do like to drive in "S" mode most of the time but the unit should be designed to handle that.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 4, 2011

Fordcougar said:
I just experienced this in a parking lot, just poking around looking for a spot, and it started bucking... was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

Ford, what "setting" were you in?

For "S" this is normal and a feature of the DSG and the torque of the diesel.
For "D" I rarely have any bucking at low speeds (until now).

ARBY · Nov 4, 2011

BarryT82 said:
Our JSW jerks hard in 1st gear if you barely press the accelerator or if you're costing along and press it a little.

Same here, but typically only when cold.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TDI Stevestr · Nov 4, 2011

Well it escalated, sorta.
Drove on the freeway and luckily was waiting at a light at the off ramp.
Went to hit the accelerator and the car went into limp mode with a flashing "D" and wrench alternating where the "D" should be.
Limped home, turned car off and back on, which cleared the wrench, but the car is still shifting horribly.
Think I am gonna call roadside assistance on Monday and have her towed in. I captured the flashing wrench on a video clip and my power was reduced to 20 MPH pushing 3K on the tach so I didn't want to push it further.
I hope the computer stored some kind of code (I should go check) so that they believe me when I see the wrench. The tranny issues only seem to happen when the car is warm now too. Once the car goes off the first or second tick on the temp gauge is when the issues start back up.

Here's a video of the limp home mode if you are so inclined (YouTube):
http://youtu.be/3Qxg2Tuz76Q

TDI Stevestr · Nov 4, 2011

Just another update here.

Finally got out the VCDS and there are 3 faults stored in "Auto Transmission":

3 Faults Found:
18201 - Transmission Output Speed Sensor 2 (G196): No Signal
P1793 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 22829 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2006.14.23
Time: 10:45:51
17106 - Transmission Output Speed Sensor (G195): No Signal
P0722 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 22841 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2006.14.23
Time: 10:51:18
18115 - Interference in Mechatronic Module
P1707 - 011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101011
Fault Priority: 0
Reset counter: 40
Mileage: 22916 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2006.14.24
Time: 10:32:59

So at least the dealer will have something to go by. They weren't there when I first scanned the vehicle and I have no idea why the date says 2006.14.24 unless they are using some wierd German dating scheme.

Fordcougar · Nov 5, 2011

Steve: I was in Drive, and unable to replicate, I think its just the transmission confused with feathering the throttle in a parking lot, it doesn't know if I'm slowing or going..

> Luke < · Nov 6, 2011

Fm > TDI Stevestr

No flashing "D" or any other idiot lights and I haven't run VCDS on it yet but has anyone heard of this happening? Any leads that I can have as I go back to the with as it heads in for service?

Additionally, from me, over the past three weeks, I've incurred two separate days where while driving very slowly, I had two unintended shifts of the transmission into neutral. At both times, I was using the "manual/tiptronic" mode.

You indicated that no light alerts on the dash appeared, which was also the case with me.

May I ask: Do you know what the diagnostic effort is called. When I take the car in, I don't know what diagnostic test to specifically ask they run.

Run what type of DSG diagnostic..??? Does anyone know ??
And, Yes, I've reported it to the NHTSA's site

TDI Stevestr · Nov 9, 2011

Honestly Luke I would just ask them to see if any codes are stored. There is no specific test that I was aware of. If you have/know someone with VCDS they can check for codes and they will not be erased.

Mine happened relatively quickly (not much advanced warning):

Note: It started in "S" mode initially but even "D" was affected. The few times I manually rowed the gears they seemed fine.
Also, VW advises that if you have any issues with your DSG not to park somewhere you may need "R" to leave. They say in some cases the "R" gear may not engage with DSG issues according to the Owner's Manual.

Thursday: Driving on freeway in "S" - hard shift into 5 (Car likes to get into 5 as soon as possible on the freeway for economy.) Slight whine from the tranny. Started noting in addition that shifts into/out of 1-2 seemed hard and delayed and cause the car to slightly buck.

Friday: About 8 miles from home (just after car reached operating temp) and exiting freeway the car jolted into limp home mode. The car would only shift 1-2 and at 20 MPH I was already pegging 3000 RPM on the tachometer. Made it home. During Limp Home is when the flashing wrench/D appeared in the center display. (For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qxg2Tuz76Q). Went to put car into "D" to move a few feet up the road and it was a really hard shift that made the car jump slightly when going from "P" to "D".

Pulled codes from VCDS: 3 stored for transmission as posted. Reading about DSG when those sensors go bad they cannot be individually replaced - must replace whole mechatronic. In addition mechatronic interference is not good.

Monday: Towed to dealer. Short test drive. Car was cold so could only hear tranny whine. Dealer and tech took car out again on a small hill where they said they could feel the misshifts and I think said the flashing D/wrench came back.

Note that before the 2nd test drive the dealer tried to write off the flashing D/wrench as general service needing to be done. Advised dealer a) all service was done and b) on this car service reminders are written as text, no wrench. Dealer "never saw this display before" but I correctly deduced that this is the new flashing PRND since newer VWs do not have gears written out across the display.

Today: Mechatronic is supposed to arrive and be installed. Dealer will retest vehicle and states that there may have been clutch pack damage so we will have to see. Update later on today.

There is talk of a DSG reset that can be run from VCDS. If you look up the codes in my report above it will lead you to a section on the VCDS website. I chose NOT to do this because I wanted to let the dealer see all the stored codes and I was afraid this would either a) erase the codes or b) only fix the problem temporarily.

I thought the DSG issues were supposed to be confined to 09-10 (I have an Apr 11 build) and this has me honestly thinking of dumping the vehicle once 60K comes around and the power train is up. Supposedly mechatronic alone is $3500 and a whole new DSG is $5000.

It's a shame because other than random bluetooth issues and this issue the car has been a blast to drive.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 9, 2011

Update: The Mechatronic they thought was coming this way somehow didn't materialize so now I am waiting for Germany to ship one over. ETA 7 days out. Stay tuned. At least I can make sure the new unit has the new program on it that was released today. (37G2 - DSG Software Update as posted elsewhere in the forums.)

richfunk · Nov 10, 2011

bucking

Question! I have a 2011 Jetta TDI.. I have noticed that whenever I accelerate from stop to about 25-35mph. It will start to jerk and buck (mildly but not aggressively) and I would give it gas and it would quit. This is after the vehicle is started and driven for 1/2 mile or so it will do it. I'm not sure if it is due to the vehicle being cold or what not. I'm away from my house right now and I don't want to take it to another dealership. I don't know if it is a big deal or not. I'm just wanting to know if it is somewhat normal or if I need to address it with a dealership.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 10, 2011

richfunk said:
Question! I have a 2011 Jetta TDI.. I have noticed that whenever I accelerate from stop to about 25-35mph. It will start to jerk and buck (mildly but not aggressively) and I would give it gas and it would quit. This is after the vehicle is started and driven for 1/2 mile or so it will do it. I'm not sure if it is due to the vehicle being cold or what not. I'm away from my house right now and I don't want to take it to another dealership. I don't know if it is a big deal or not. I'm just wanting to know if it is somewhat normal or if I need to address it with a dealership.

Hard to say if it is normal or not. The DSG should shift pretty smoothly and quickly.

What mode are you driving in? "D" or "S"?

Taking it to the dealer (other than if your VIN is in the newest DSG update as posted on another thread here) won't help. They will just say they can't reproduce it and there is no code stored.

Perhaps you can find someone near where you are that has a VCDS that can pull the history on the vehicle and see if any codes are showing.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 15, 2011

When it rains…

Today's update from the dealer:

Yes, the mechatronic unit was located.

However, when we went to install it we noticed metal shavings in the mechatronic area.

Found out that a bearing exploded in the transmission.

I've now been escalated to a whole new transmission which they are currently trying to locate.

Off I go into the sunset in my POS Hyundai Accent for another week or so.

I miss my Golf!

TDI Stevestr · Nov 16, 2011

The news gets even better...

The transmission for the car is on "red order" status - backordered all the way back at Germany and no transmissions available state side.

I miss my car!

> Luke < · Nov 16, 2011

^^^^^^^^ Steve:

the 37G2 - DSG Software Update had a considerably improved result with my Golf. Do we know if the update falls with your car ??

OCDiesel · Nov 16, 2011

Fordcougar said:
I just experienced this in a parking lot, just poking around looking for a spot, and it started bucking... was wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.

Mine does the same thing. Typically when the engine is cold but sometimes even when its not. I can usually but not always avoid it by dropping into S or Tiptronic mode when at parking lot speeds.

I brought it to the dealer to check it out and perform the 10K service on it. They made me leave it overnight, refused to give me a loaner because "we only do that when the car is not drive-able for at least 24 hours" all just to get the "unable to reproduce"/"no error codes" excuse. The trip meter showed that a whopping 0.7 miles was clocked during dealer testing.

I called VW customer care who just parroted what the dealer said.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 16, 2011

> Luke < said:
^^^^^^^^ Steve:

the 37G2 - DSG Software Update had a considerably improved result with my Golf. Do we know if the update falls with your car ??

Luke,

Thanks for the follow-up. I could only wish that could help at this point.

We've gone from a bad mechatronic unit to a complete failure of the whole transmission with a back order transmission in Germany as of today with no ETA.

However, once I do get a semblance of a working vehicle again I will be sure they apply the update.

Thanks again for the follow up and stay tuned.

Steve

TDI Stevestr · Nov 16, 2011

OCDiesel said:
Mine does the same thing. Typically when the engine is cold but sometimes even when its not. I can usually but not always avoid it by dropping into S or Tiptronic mode when at parking lot speeds.
I brought it to the dealer to check it out and perform the 10K service on it. They made me leave it overnight, refused to give me a loaner because "we only do that when the car is not drive-able for at least 24 hours" all just to get the "unable to reproduce"/"no error codes" excuse. The trip meter showed that a whopping 0.7 miles was clocked during dealer testing. I called VW customer care who just parroted what the dealer said.

At least you still have your transmission.

(Sorry, see my other thread for the details.)

There is quite a conflict here in that no code will be stored until something completely fails and the dealers are lead by the computer.

When mine used to buck a bit, ironically, it was in "S" mode driving in parking lots trying to shift or decide to shift between 1 and 2. Driving in parking lots in "D" significantly helped in my case.

Anyway, I'm truly sorry for anyone going through transmission issues. They can be a PITA to diagnose and reproduce "on command."

St.Hubbins · Nov 16, 2011

> Luke < said:
^^^^^^^^ Steve:

the 37G2 - DSG Software Update had a considerably improved result with my Golf. Do we know if the update falls with your car ??

so do the cars w/ VIN's beyond the range listed already have the up to date DSG software, in theory?
i'm really curious as to what exactly this update is supposed to do, from a technical standpoint, and whether there is a way to run the update on a car that falls outside of the VIN range.

obviously one man's "serious" is another man's "mild" when it comes to symptoms, but i'm convinced my car should be smoother in the situations discussed.

govegan · Nov 16, 2011

They must just be doing this one in stages for some reason. My car fell well outside the VIN range and I requested that the dealership install the update several days ago when my car was in for the 20K service and they just went ahead and did it. So far for me it feels like an entirely different transmission. Much smoother all around in D and S mode. It seems like the hesitation from a complete stop is almost gone, too. There's still a very brief hesitation, but nowhere near the 1-1.5 seconds between hitting the accelerator and the car moving that I experienced beforehand.

tico27464 · Nov 16, 2011

TDI Stevestr said:
<snip>They say in some cases the "R" gear may not engage with DSG issues according to the owner's manual.<snip>
Yeah it would be nice to read the OM before buying the car. I rceall they said "under certain rcumstances the trans may not engage into reverse." What is the owner to do--plow forward into a parking chock? Yeesh.

St.Hubbins · Nov 16, 2011

govegan said:
They must just be doing this one in stages for some reason. My car fell well outside the VIN range and I requested that the dealership install the update several days ago when my car was in for the 20K service and they just went ahead and did it. So far for me it feels like an entirely different transmission. Much smoother all around in D and S mode. It seems like the hesitation from a complete stop is almost gone, too. There's still a very brief hesitation, but nowhere near the 1-1.5 seconds between hitting the accelerator and the car moving that I experienced beforehand.

that's EXACTLY the kind of thing i want to hear!

although, what are the chances my dealer will be so accommodating? i may have to plan a visit to see family in Madison just so i can swing by your dealer.

TDI Stevestr · Nov 16, 2011

tico27464 said:
TDI Stevestr said:

<snip>They say in some cases the "R" gear may not engage with DSG issues according to the owner's manual.<snip>
Yeah it would be nice to read the OM before buying the car. I rceall they said "under certain rcumstances the trans may not engage into reverse." What is the owner to do--plow forward into a parking chock? Yeesh.

Click to expand...

I have no idea. I know VW roadside asks if you are in a garage or driveway but they can't really tow with the rear wheels lifted when it is a FWD car.

Luckily I parked in the street with no one in front of me so the wrecker could just back right up and take me away.

BTW, a topic for a whole other thread, the various responses to VWOA roadside assistance. Once a beater tower was sent and this time the car was flat bedded with a decent truck. Then again last time the truck showed up within the quoted time and this time the truck was 1/2 hr past quoted time. They dispatch from downtown when there are wreckers local to my community. <Rant Ended>

dwfdiesel · Nov 17, 2011

Here's another quirky thing
I had the passenger door open and I wanted to start the car so I reached across and flipped the key to start with nobody in the drivers seat the car started and promptly backup up 2 inches freaked me completely out thinking I had done something to the shifter but I had not.
I too have the 1 second pause at the start more noticeable at traffic lights transmission does not like to be rushed so I have to anticipate when I need the car to go forward to keep it from the lurch.
so the new 2012 needs the software upgrade too apparently it is out but not as a recall so I will ask next time I'm near the dealer.

more reading http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=335147

DSG Hard Shifts and Bucking out of/into 1st

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