A rare serious question from me

Background:
Foggy morning (really high humidity). About 55-60 degrees F, 99.5 Golf IV parked overnight on a slanted driveway.

Problem:
Started the car, realized I had left something back in the house so I shut the car off after about 2 minutes, and was gone about 4 minutes. Came back and the car wouldn't start. Acted flooded. Tried about a dozen times then it started and has run fine since.

Does the ECU permit flooding at idle (like many TDIs it runs pretty rough the first 2-4 minutes)? Other than "don't shut it off until it warms up about 5 minutes" (i.e., "don't do that again"), anyone have any suggested workaround or ideas that this may be indicative of a more serious problem? This happen to anyone else?

It was a typical foggy morning for some place like SFRAN, any of you guys want to see if you can duplicate it? (Don't know why you would but hey, maybe we got a risk-taker or two out there.)

I've done that a couple of times in the mornings (same situation). It kills me to turn it off so soon after starting but I don't really have a choice.

But I have never had any problems starting again.

Have you got it started again?

did you try a couple key instertions turing it to on and then taking it back out? I don't know if that does any good but it might fool the ECU into letting the car start.

Did you check the fuses? Maybe something fried it self in the wet?

Good luck.

Yeah, after quite a few tries it started again. I even tried the valet key (my valet must be sleeping it off someplace, haven't seen him since I bought the car - doesn't one come with it?).

Anyway, took about a dozen tries and then just let it sit as long as my patience held (which isn't the easiest thing for me to do). Believe me, the phrase "Grouchy as a Bear" could have been invented for me when something like this happens.

How do you flood a diesel?

Check the fuel line for air bubbles. It sounds like it is not getting fuel.

As far as I know the versions over there are conventional in terms of the Injection pump. If so, there will undoubtedly be a "stop solenoid" on the pump which enables the engine to be switched off.

I've had this problem with my Discovery TDi (Bosch pump) a few times over the years and I reckon it's the plunger in the stop solenoid temporarily sticking "Shut".

Mine has always released itself eventually without my taking any other action, but if it does it again, try tapping the solenoid (with the "ignition" on) with a screwdriver handle. If it's that, that may release the plunger. It could be caused by a piece of crud in the solenoid which causes it to jam intermittently.

Must take mine off some time & check it!

Since all has been OK since, sounds as though that might be it, as in my own case.

By the way, my TDi Golf is on order for when we move to Canada soon!

Sounds like a problem to me. Mine doesn't run rough at all, ever. It is a little noisier when cold but that's normal for a diesel. As for your particular problem, I'm a real scatterbrain and have had to do the same thing many times. I'll start the car, realize I forgot my cellular or some other important piece of gear and have to turn it off and go back inside. It always starts right back up just fine. Sounds like yours isn't getting sufficient fuel flow for some reason.

You mentioned parking on a slanted driveway. Was the front of the car facing uphill? If so, I wonder if the fuel in the lines aft of the filter cannister could have migrated back into the tank. Don't even know if that's possible but it would explain things if so. I'd be curious to know if it's possible because I just bought a new house and it has a slanted driveway.

It can't "flood." Something is wrong. If it doesn't happen again, I'd chalk it up to "gremlins." If it does, start going through the list of usual suspects: Relay 109, fuel system leaks, bad grounds, etc.

-mickey

Bear did you get the usual glow plug indicator breifly before the start attempt? It keys you into whats happening with the ECU.

Then there's the ever-popular sticking anti-shudder flap valve.

Strange, we've only seen one of these so far. Could it be an Epsilonian conspiracy?

[Altually, two.]

[This message has been edited by Karl Roenick (edited August 23, 2000).]

Thanks all. This is why the forum is so invaluable.

Yeah, parked with the nose uphill. Been doing this "rough running" thing for a several months now. Seems to initially (when cold) smoke more than it did when new, also. It calms down and quits smoking rapidly but sure doesn't seem right.

I am suspecting glow plugs or injector pump but - big surprise - the dealer(s) "can't find anything". I would expect to get some sort of signal readout on the diagnostics but apparently am showing nothing. On the one hand it seemed starved for fuel this a.m. but then the smoke seems to indicate it is getting too much fuel.

I also suspect perhaps the consistant dealer "overfill" of the oil after oil changes (until I finally started taking them only 1 gallon of Delvac 1 and explaining I would break their thumbs if they put in so much as a drop beyond what I brought in) may have spewed enough oil somewhere to reduce the air intake or maybe clog up the catalytic converter. Be like stuffing a potato up the exhaust.

How do you flood a diesel? That was my initial question. I didn't think it was really possible - short of maybe dumping raw fuel in each cylinder - and even then I would think a couple cycles would simply blow it out.

I take it back. Two other people had the sticking flap valve. No codes. Hard to start. Flap sticks closed because of soot from egr, (or other reason, eg, vacuum leak) and chokes off air. I think the key is start, then no start just like the thread below.

See: http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/Forum17/HTML/000404.html

My flap was starting to stick a bit when I cleaned the intake manifolds dirty mouth. After washing out the dirty thing with injector cleaner, no more flap or sassing occured after telling the engine to shutup.

That's very likely the culprit. I had the top hose off of mine last night and yecccccch! My weekend chore is to disassemble the entire post-turbo induction system and clean 'er up like new. I couldn't believer how crapped up that was after 20K miles. Won't happen again though!

Karl: looks EXACTLY like the problem symptoms. Will check it out. Thanks huge!

Been using an additive/cleaner but not perhaps as religiously as I should.

YOU MUST JOIN THE EPSILONIANS.
CONTACT SUPREME COMMANDER VALOIS.

But seriously, the additives won't help. There's just air, exhaust, crankcase fumes, and turbo bearing oil (check any that apply) going in there. EGR seems to be the culprit.

[This message has been edited by Karl Roenick (edited August 23, 2000).]

BB,

My sensible answer is- Forget the prevailing weather conditions in this case, far too benign. If it doesn't do it again and you see no code light forget it and don't worry. As it didn't trip a code it's unlikely to anything that serious, maybe an immobiliser glitch?

My ECU had a "Blocked ECU code" stored when I had it checked some time ago which apparently means an Immobiliser fault but I have never seen a code light in the following 10,000 miles.

As it's you my answer is -What's a bear doing driving a TDI anyway?

The Epsilonian Freedom Fighters are currently recruiting. Check out the Jerry Springer section.

-mickey

p.s. Yes, you can be a General. In fact, you can be the High Muckey-Muck Grand Poobah if you like.

Brodie: Bears isn't dumb you know, We drive TDIs 'cause it is easier than carrying TDIs.

Mickey" The High Mucky-Muck part is OK, just sent a message via Mr. Springer to getm the address But that "Poobah" is much too close to that "other", wussy bear that everyone gets all sticky about. Maybe I'll shoot for High Mucky-Muck Vice Commander (I've always been comfortable around just about any form of vice - except advice).

All: thanks for your inputs. I owe you some. I just need time to follow up on it all now (will retire in less than 6 weeks and seem to be getting busier and busier right now).

BBear, are you a Vietnam Vet?

OK. Valois, you here? Got any recruiting slots left? Can I be a general?

Sure....