Window Tint: Ceramic vs. Non Ceramic

scottysize · May 15, 2014

pparks1 said:
But if windows are dark enough that you cannot see the side mirrors, they don't help much. Not all of us have the backup camera, my 2013 Passat TDI SE with Sun/Nav does not have a backup camera.

You have automatic windows, right? Roll them down at night to see. That's what my wife does. As for me, the legal limit on the two sides allows enough light to come through so that I can see fine out my two side mirrors.

VeeDubTDI · May 15, 2014

scottysize said:
You have automatic windows, right? Roll them down at night to see. That's what my wife does. As for me, the legal limit on the two sides allows enough light to come through so that I can see fine out my two side mirrors.

Good idea, especially in the winter and/or rain.

scottysize · May 15, 2014

VeeDubTDI said:
Good idea, especially in the winter and/or rain.

Well, I didn't say it was perfect. In Texas, everyone has tinted windows. The sun beats down on you and gets really hot just driving down the road. Out of 20 cars, you might see 3 without tint.

pparks1 · May 15, 2014

Obviously, the ability to backup at night will depend upon a number of factors. For example, I have to back up a narrow driveway with a brick house on one side and a chain link fence on the other. There is no real outside ambient light in this area and I don't have much extra room on either side so I don't have much margin for error. If I just had to backup into the first part of my driveway by the road, it's no issue at all, but when I get a ways back between the house and fence, it's no longer easy.

Rolling the windows down is what I had to do with my Dodge Magnum, but as VeeDubTDI says, it's less ideal in rain and snow. (As I live in Michigan and I get lots of both rain and snow).

charley654 · May 15, 2014

mihneagabriel said:
Just got my brand new car retinted (the tint my dealer put on wasn't dark enough)

ceramic 5% all the way around

Not picking on the person posting , but generally stating...
This right here - picture above- would highly illegal in just about any state. 5% tint.
Not only illegal but dangerous. The danger part you won't know until you back into something or run someone over- and the lawyers will have a field day.

5% is considered a limousine tint. Legal only for secluded compartments- for the occupant only; not for the driver. With 5% tint on 3 sides and the privacy window up btw. driver and occupant, there is no way to see in even with a flashlight through the window, or would be able to see very little in.
For some states 5% is ok for the rear windows, 25% is generally accepted for the side window including driver and passenger. Some state does not allow side window of driver to be tinted. I have 5 % in the back window in my daughter's car and it is nearly impossible to see out at night. Sides are 25% and it is also hard to see people walking next to the vehicle at night.
Remember, the eye can only see the light source or reflected lights. Light reflects of objects in different ways, it why we can not see the wet road at night well, because the light from our headlight does not reflect back to our eyes but rather away from it like a flat mirror laying on the road. Try to shine a spot light form a boat on lake water when it is smooth, you won't see much.
So... at night when you cut that down this reflected light to 5% or 25% you are greatly limiting your ability to see regardless of how old you are.

pparks1 · May 16, 2014

charley654 said:
Some state does not allow side window of driver to be tinted.

I'm in one of those states, Michigan. It's not just the drivers door, it's also the front passenger door. Any tint is illegal that goes down more than 4 inches from the top of the window. This demonstrates how dumb legal tint looks like in Michigan.

Yankinwaoz · May 16, 2014

charley654 said:
Not picking on the person posting , but generally stating...
This right here - picture above- would highly illegal in just about any state. 5% tint.
Not only illegal but dangerous. The danger part you won't know until you back into something or run someone over- and the lawyers will have a field day.

5% is considered a limousine tint. Legal only for secluded compartments- for the occupant only; not for the driver. With 5% tint on 3 sides and the privacy window up btw. driver and occupant, there is no way to see in even with a flashlight through the window, or would be able to see very little in.
For some states 5% is ok for the rear windows, 25% is generally accepted for the side window including driver and passenger. Some state does not allow side window of driver to be tinted. I have 5 % in the back window in my daughter's car and it is nearly impossible to see out at night. Sides are 25% and it is also hard to see people walking next to the vehicle at night.
Remember, the eye can only see the light source or reflected lights. Light reflects of objects in different ways, it why we can not see the wet road at night well, because the light from our headlight does not reflect back to our eyes but rather away from it like a flat mirror laying on the road. Try to shine a spot light form a boat on lake water when it is smooth, you won't see much.
So... at night when you cut that down this reflected light to 5% or 25% you are greatly limiting your ability to see regardless of how old you are.

I see illegally tinted windows all the time down here in San Diego. If I can't see the driver, then I know it is too dark. Yet they drive around with impunity around here. These bozos also have tinting over their license plates, which is also illegal. But they do it anyhow.

mihneagabriel · May 20, 2014

Yankinwaoz said:
I see illegally tinted windows all the time down here in San Diego. If I can't see the driver, then I know it is too dark. Yet they drive around with impunity around here. These bozos also have tinting over their license plates, which is also illegal. But they do it anyhow.

Lemme guess, you also follow every law to the T. Better not see you one mph over the speed limit.

For those thinking it's too dark, I have driven a car with 5% for a good 8 years with no problems ever seeing whatsoever.

I see people wearing sunglasses and have "legal" tint, what's the difference?

Not necessarily defending my view because you're not the one paying my tickets (which I've never gotten before btw) nor my car payment, just think it's hilarious that some are saying it's bad but never have had "dark" tint
And btw, during the day, you can still see in through the front windows

pparks1 · May 21, 2014

mihneagabriel said:
just think it's hilarious that some are saying it's bad but never have had "dark" tint

But some of us are saying we've had dark tint in the past, I had 5% in a vehicle in the back and I will never do that again. But then again, I was backing up into dark areas regularly and didn't have much ambient light. So, my situation may have made the situation worse. Either way, I'm happy with my 50% tint on my front 2 windows and 35% on everything else. From time to time, it's still a bit dark at my home going between my house and the fence to see, I usually have to roll down my drivers and passenger front windows to see well enough to confidently back my car into the driveway (having to see things like kid toys and bikes and such which might be off to the side).

VeeDubTDI · May 21, 2014

This thread is about ceramic tint vs. carbon tint and the differences in heat rejection, signal reception and tint longevity. This is NOT a pissing contest about how dark is too dark, what's legal or illegal and what other people should or should not be doing to their vehicles.

20IndigoBlue02 · May 21, 2014

need to go factory style....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Shanghai_Volkswagen_Passat_NMS,_side_view.jpg

someone should import the Shanghai VW glass

BarnyardsTDI · May 21, 2014

Simple. If you have bluetooth, get ceramic. Unless you want a Faraday cage around you while trying to talk on your cell phone. 30% Ceramic on my Golf. Keeps the Texas heat at bay!

mihneagabriel · May 21, 2014

So I can compare ceramic vs non ceramic now that I've had both for a bit of time. It's definitely a noticeable difference. Not only in quality (mainly thickness) but in heat rejection too. I notice it most while I'm driving. The heat that used to come through the drivers side window isn't there anymore.

BarnyardsTDI said:
Simple. If you have bluetooth, get ceramic. Unless you want a Faraday cage around you while trying to talk on your cell phone. 30% Ceramic on my Golf. Keeps the Texas heat at bay!

My cell phone reception isn't obstructed at all. How would having bluetooth make your reception better?
Also, my radar detector is mounted right behind the windshield strip and it functions just as well as it did before.

My buddy has the clear ceramic tint on his windshield too and it makes the heat virtually nonexistent

BarnyardsTDI · May 21, 2014

mihneagabriel said:
My cell phone reception isn't obstructed at all. How would having bluetooth make your reception better?
Also, my radar detector is mounted right behind the windshield strip and it functions just as well as it did before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

I was referring to the fact that a metallic tint can interfere with the bluetooth signal while trying to make calls. Where a ceramic one would not.

pparks1 · May 21, 2014

I don't see how metallic tint can interfere with bluetooth signals if the phone is inside of the car. Are you saying that the cellular signal itself is impacted? I know that I don't have ceramic tint, and I've had no problems with my cell phone because of it.

mihneagabriel · May 21, 2014

It wouldn't be, the Bluetooth receiver is inside the car. Also metallic tint doesn't have enough metal to create a faraday cage. Plus the windshield isn't done.

Either type of tint is good for light protection. If you're interested in heat repulsion then go with ceramic. Almost double the price for quality stuff though

BarnyardsTDI · May 22, 2014

Keywords: can interfere.

Proceed with the purchase of your choosing gentleman.

dzcad90 · May 22, 2014

Update:

So I got my windows done at the dealership when I took it in for the 10K service.

They sub it out to one of the better known aftermarket accessory shops in the suburbs around here, and they did a nice job with the cutting and labor to install. I got the little warranty card and it says that 3M "FX Premium" film was used. The film is not ceramic.

The tint looks good and definitely changes the overall external apperance of the vehicle. However, the heat rejection on this pretty much sucks. It's been warm this week and I still get into a sweltering car. I park with my windshield facing east, and by the time I get out from work at night the car is still sweltering. I didn't expect it to be air-conditioned cool, but it's not as big of a difference as I thought it might be.

This is the first car on which I've had the windows tinted, however I'm not sure I'd do it again. I paid $250 as they agreed to give me a deal since we've bought two cars in 11 months from there. That's what the dealer was charged (or at least that's what they said..). However, if the ceramic film was going to be another 100$ on top of that, I just don't know if the value is there for me.

Will post pictures later on.

Lightflyer1 · May 22, 2014

You chose wrong if you wanted heat rejection. Most tints only affect the amount of light getting through and very little to do with heat rejection. The ceramic stuff can be clear (almost) and still reject the heat. But I guess you found that out personally now. This was discussed several times in the thread, I am surprised you are surprised. Here in Austin when it gets to 105 or so you would be amazed at how much it blocks. I use a windshield shade and crack the windows/sunroof on hot days. My black interior gets warm but no skin searing hot like other cars in the past.

dzcad90 · May 22, 2014

Lightflyer1 said:
You chose wrong if you wanted heat rejection. Most tints only affect the amount of light getting through and very little to do with heat rejection. The ceramic stuff can be clear (almost) and still reject the heat. But I guess you found that out personally now. This was discussed several times in the thread, I am surprised you are surprised.

I knew well that the ceramic would do better at heat rejection, but I was expecting at least a noticeable difference with the non ceramic film.

If the ceramic film was $250 or even $300, I'd have probably done it. For $500 - that's not a good value.

Lightflyer1 · May 22, 2014

Down here it is! The sun/seats will blister your skin if you touch them in mid summer.

BarnyardsTDI · May 22, 2014

I agree with Lightflyer1! $300 for all windows on my 2 door golf. Think he cut me a deal because it was a "coupe". Even though the rear passenger windows are pretty big. Ceramic is the only way to go for these hot summers here in Texas. Enjoy the tint!

TDIRoady · May 22, 2014

dzcad90 said:
I knew well that the ceramic would do better at heat rejection, but I was expecting at least a noticeable difference with the non ceramic film.
If the ceramic film was $250 or even $300, I'd have probably done it. For $500 - that's not a good value.

My local VW Dealer uses a Company named ABT in Glenview, IL. They use a film from Viper and only use the "Ultimate" product on all their tinting. Viper "Ultimate" is non-Ceramic. They went over the specs and even on the Viper web-site they say "No signal Interference" with any of their 6 products. I'm having all windows done in a few weeks in Viper "Ultimate" 34% (windshield 54%) for under $500. If I went with the ceramic product it would be $150 more and only achieve about a 13-15% reflective difference. The non-Ceramic & Ceramic, from Viper, comes in different % tints but the closest for me is Ultimate in 34% & 54% windshield or Ceramic in 30% & 50% windshield. The higher the # the lighter the tint. Also, they said the ceramic has an iridescent type sheen, almost like a metallic reflective look which I didn't want. I must say the JSW windshield from the factory tint is like being in an Easy-Bake Oven……and we're not as hot as a Texas, AZ, FL et al. Being in IL there are NOT a lot of tint shops to choose from. Companies like Huper Optik, which is touted on these forums isn't even sold here…..I called Corporate!

I should add this question, for those that have done this in the past, is my reasoning sound? I'd hate to add extra cost but I want to do this right too!

BKmetz · May 22, 2014

I'm thinking of tinting my car for heat and UV and not to darken the windows. I have a hard enough time seeing at night. I'm looking at LLumar AIR80. Any other similar products?

Also, what is recommended for clear-bra products? My car is white and the cheap films turn yellow after a while. I would do the front bumper, partial hood, and side mirrors.

kydsid · May 22, 2014

The llumar is the only one I'd recommend for your wants BK. I have it on my windshield and love it.

TDIRoady · May 22, 2014

BKmetz said:
I'm thinking of tinting my car for heat and UV and not to darken the windows. I have a hard enough time seeing at night. I'm looking at LLumar AIR80. Any other similar products?

Also, what is recommended for clear-bra products? My car is white and the cheap films turn yellow after a while. I would do the front bumper, partial hood, and side mirrors.

Where in IL are you looking for install? I haven't found any installers in the Chicago Northern IL. area of the LLumar products.

Gonzo0324 · May 22, 2014

I have the xpel ultimate for paint protection works great. And Huper Optik is just as good, if not better. I to have it on my windshield and on all the windows. Loving it

JdC Machine · May 22, 2014

BKmetz said:
Also, what is recommended for clear-bra products? My car is white and the cheap films turn yellow after a while. I would do the front bumper, partial hood, and side mirrors.

I'd suggest covering the entire hood. If you've ever seen a dirty car with a precut sheet for a partial hood covering, you might hate seeing a dirt line if it happens to get that dirty. Depends on how much you care about seeing that too. Not to mention, debris can still hit and leave chips/scratches on areas of the hood above the halfway point. Ask me how I know.

Also, you'll want to cover the headlights and fogs (if equipped), side view mirrors (the painted "cap"), door sills, top of the rear bumper (protection from objects being loaded and unloaded), and behind the door handles since fingernail scratches are inevitable.

Xpel is a good paint protection product that was recommended to me by a local detailer who details and installs Xpel on high-end cars such as Ferrari, Maserati, etc. It certainly won't be cheap if you cover all the areas I mentioned. I was quoted $1800 for the product and labor to install. To each his own of course. Just my 2 cents.

Hunted and pecked from a Galaxy S4A.

BKmetz · May 22, 2014

TDIRoady said:
Where in IL are you looking for install? I haven't found any installers in the Chicago Northern IL. area of the LLumar products.

http://northamerica.llumar.com/find-a-dealer

I've called a few placed and the Llumar products they carry is very limited, like maybe one or two types of tint.

While doing a search I have discovered that both Huper Optik and Llumar are both owned by Eastman Chemicals (former Eastman Kodak) so I wonder how different the two product lines are.

VeeDubTDI · May 22, 2014

For paint protection, you may also want to check out http://opti-coat.com/

We should have done it when our car was new, but we procrastinated and now it seems like it's too late to bother with.

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