Tdi tuning problems with malone

Hey everyone, new member to the forums but long time viewer. Most problems I've been able to fix by looking at other threads. So my problem is with my brothers car a 2013 passat tdi auto. He took the car to a malone dealer to get the full delete( egr, dpf, def, cats) with malone stage 2. The car got worse fuel economy than stock and rolled alot of deep black smoke. The malone dealer couldn't figure out what data logs to send malone to fix the problem and was told to just deal with malone to fix the problem. My brother then had to buy vcds and flashzilla to get the tune fixed with malone. He then tried to data log and send malone the correct parameters but doesent know which exact ones to send malone. My brother was told to send fuel rail pressure, injection quantity, rpm, boost requested by the ecu, actual boost, actuator position with voltage, but when he searches for those in the ross-tech vcds software either nothing comes up or the the paramaters arent titled that and there are several related ones to choose from. He is drawing the last straw here with close to 2,000$ in trying to get it deleted and running right to see mpg gains. So i am looking for someone who has a 2013 passat tdi that has had success in their delete and can help me provide malone with the parameters to get the tune done correctly.
I am awaiting the success of my brothers car. And am anxious to get my 2015 jetta tdi deleted but am being drawn away from malone seeing my brothers problems. Thanks for any help!

Full Delete? What, they deleted his car? JK I’m assuming emissions delete right?
Gets tune with probably fully stock car and now rolls coal and bad fuel mileage. - sounds right!
Then you have to buy parts to get a tune you needed. - This is how it’s done for custom stuff. Get used to it.
Can’t learn simple software and comes crying to us for help vs searching for answers on the forums on how to use. It’s simple bro, learn some patients.
$2000??? what??? Yea a bit steep but not uncommon for anything other than off the shelf tune and performance.

What other mods do you have on the car? If its stock, there are much cheaper ways to get more power

I am assuming your deleting the emissions exhaust bits. Yea you can’t actually do this. Federal Law, can’t tamper, alter, or delete emissions things!

OK on to your issue you have, you really don’t have any issues. The biggest issue you have here is a failure to communicate with the right people. Owain Jones from Malone was who I dealt with and he is fantastic and able to communicate anything you shall ever need. Send him an email info@malonetuning.com

Honestly all I here is that you got what you paid for, don’t like it, spend more money still can’t change it and don’t seem to have much communications with the tuner and come crying to us for help. Best advice here is to not think of them as bad business but that you need more communication with them. Get on the phone, have them help you.

As for the VCDS, there are video tutorials on YouTube and quite a few threads here with all the information you need. Good luck searching and readying because you have some to do.

I wouldn't blame Mark and Malone, The DEALER is at fault here, or, rather, should be responsible. However, dealers get handed cars with pre-existing problems and end up not being able to correctly tune because of it and then the customers get all bent out of shape. It's a tough situation. I'd hope that you can step back a little from your frustration with Malone on this. NOTE: would have been better off with a subject title about how to use VCDS on a 2013 OR how to adjust something or other (no idea, I'm an old-school VE guy).

I'm assuming you're going by Malone's instructions for what things to log data on? They have that info on their web site. Had to say this up front before moving along here...

VCDS is, for sure, a bit complicated. Fortunately there are a lot of folks out there who have used it: there's a thread on this forum on using VCDS; Ross-Tech has some information, such as this:

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?10310-Fuel-Rail-Pressure-Test-with-VCDS

I can understand the sense of impatience. You paid someone to do something that isn't delivering. Path to resolution is limited to: 1) Dealer (Malone tuner); or 2) Self. In both cases patience will be required, but more with #2 (going to require a bit of a learning curve to navigate). I'm pretty good about getting impatient with stuff that has some "trick" that I don't see; after I force myself to slow down and find out what the trick is things go fine. Slow and steady...

Not crying to anyone, isn't the point of forums to find help to problems by others experiences? Anyways what I'm asking for is someone with a passat tdi that has deleted egr, dpf, def, and cats. Has gotten a stage 2 tune from malone and is happy with how the car is running. The tune my brother got makes his car smoke too much. Malone has agreed on that. And his fuel economy is worse than when it was stock. So in order to get the correct tune I need help from another passat owner in them remembering what paramaters to send malone.

We have done everything we can to try to help Ben, he has not been willing to go under advanced measuring blocks and data log or send me screenshots. Has sent 20 emails in the last two days but doesn't seem to be making any progress with VCDS, would've been happy to teamview as well. The parameters are different under different platforms, I personally use the search feature within the tool and select them that way, rather than trying to memorize a bunch of numbers. There's also an option to save the parameters for later.

All he has to do is go under advanced measuring blocks, use the search function, and select the parameters he would like to log. It would provide live data of the part in question, worst case a different option would work (there's often several for the same part and not all will work). We also sent him a stock power tune to test which hasn't been installed, just to rule out anything mechanical. Shipped a flashzilla overnight at cost the 15th of December and received the ECU read the 3rd.

We tune these cars everyday, but unfortunately there's only so much we can do to help over the internet

Owain@malonetuning said:

We have done everything we can to try to help Ben, he has not been willing to go under advanced measuring blocks and data log or send me screenshots

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Oh! Another one of those kinds of guys. Could tell by the attitude in which he came at this.

Owain@malonetuning said:

We have done everything we can to try to help Ben, he has not been willing to go under advanced measuring blocks and data log or send me screenshots. Has sent 20 emails in the last two days but doesn't seem to be making any progress with VCDS, would've been happy to teamview as well. The parameters are different under different platforms, I personally use the search feature within the tool and select them that way, rather than trying to memorize a bunch of numbers. There's also an option to save the parameters for later.

All he has to do is go under advanced measuring blocks, use the search function, and select the parameters he would like to log. It would provide live data of the part in question, worst case a different option would work (there's often several for the same part and not all will work). We also sent him a stock power tune to test which hasn't been installed, just to rule out anything mechanical. Shipped a flashzilla overnight at cost the 15th of December and received the ECU read the 3rd.

We tune these cars everyday, but unfortunately there's only so much we can do to help over the internet

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under advanced measuring blocks, which parameters should he log to give you live data that is my question. he doesn't know what to search for.

Key words like pressure, rail, actuator, injector, quantity, manifold, temperature, should give tons of options and then select several to see what kind of data feedback they provide. In some cases, like intake temps, there will be say 10 different parameters for it, but only a few work, and then sometimes they change with updates. Can understand his frustration there, tool definitely has a bit of a learning curve to it; just need constructive feedback and some logs or screenshots in order to help him out.

Owain@malonetuning said:

Key words like pressure, rail, actuator, injector, quantity, manifold, temperature, should give tons of options and then select several to see what kind of data feedback they provide. In some cases, like intake temps, there will be say 10 different parameters for it, but only a few work, and then sometimes they change with updates. Can understand his frustration there, tool definitely has a bit of a learning curve to it; just need constructive feedback and some logs or screenshots in order to help him out.

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can i get a list of specifics to data log this seems very vague

Please try using the tool and then send us an email with details or screenshots if you have questions about measuring blocks. I've gone over what components should be data logged and offered to team view, sorry but there's nothing more I can do to help here.

Straight from the Malone website: https://malonetuning.com/custom-tuning/vag-com-vcds-logging-guide

• Install the generic stock tune Malone sent you.
• Log measuring blocks as instructed in the logging guide. (PDF file on the Malone website)
• E-mail logs to Malone tuning.
• Dialog with Malone as to how to proceed once Malone has studied the logs.

Easy Peasy...........

"A seller can not be held accountable for the lack of foresight or knowledge of a buyer."

This is a quote from my MHIC hand book and I recite it every time I drive up to a job quote for a customer. I always go in knowing that 99.9% of all the buyers i quote a job for are going to not know whaht the heck im talking about let alone know how to frame a wall, or grout a tile, or draw up a blueprint, and that with my contracts come the warentee of that i know what i am doing and have been certified by the state of Maryland to build to code and do things the right way.

The same goes for a builder. Any seller, in this case Malone can not be held accountable for the inability of a customer to provide any help, this is why a tune cost $$$ because they know what the HECK they are doing, knowing full well that when they sell a tune to a customer, there is a high chance that they customer knows NOTHING about tuning or how to know what tune they want.

When we buy from a reputable professional we know that the product is going to be backed 100% and that its not going to be an issue but if you dont do your part, the seller can not be held in question.

TLDR: Buyer is a PITA and is a fuss pot when the seller is doing everything perfectly and cant help any further than the extent of the internet/phone.

There seems to be 3 sellers here. Local Installer, Malone, and Rosstech.

Sounds like a lot of work was done to the Passat all at the same time along with a tune. Makes sense that things are not quite dialled in yet.

Patience is the answer here. Just dig into the VCDS program and get the logs and info over to Owain and you will be on the right track to getting what you are looking for.

It has taken me over 10 years and I am still searching for that perfect level of power without a ton of smoke. Many others here have been working on this for much longer.

Imortl said:

I am awaiting the success of my brothers car. And am anxious to get my 2015 jetta tdi deleted but am being drawn away from malone seeing my brothers problems. Thanks for any help!

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Just so you know, deleting Federally mandated emission equipment is a Federal crime even if your state doesn't enforce it. When you sell your car and if the new owner tries to register it in a state that does enforce emission standards, they won't be able to until the emission equipment you so joyously removed is reinstalled.

You are more than welcome to drive it OFF ROAD like this for things like rally events, race circuits, but not autocross as you must maintain insurance on the car and you can’t unless you have hotrod insurance but that will never pass. In a nut shell, you need to be able to remove this to legally drive it on the road. I have bad news for you too. When you go in form emissions all they do is hook this car up to a computer and even if it was deleted by a tune it will still fail and the emissions location has the right to impound the car and file an issuance of noncompliance. This is what’s great about older non regulated exhaust emissions systems of older mk1, 2 and to a lesser extent mk3's. In my state I don’t even need to have it tested for emissions and I get away with is as it’s classified and insured with hotrod custom insurance, leaning me to do as I want. Granted, if I got pulled over with this cars tags and insurance with a back seat full of groceries I’m probably getting a ticked and a repair order.

My advice, don’t do this stuff to newer cars. VW already has a bad rep for emissions and its coal rolling Cummins trucks, and cars like yours that is keeping the bad reputation alive. I understand y our want less smoke but the reasons are the same. FYI, an easy but not cheap way to get rid of smoke is NOS injection and is completely safe on diesel engines.

I also suggest that in the future you post in the right forum area and that you read the rules too. Posting and asking about ways to do illegal things to your cars emissions is prohibited unless for off road or appropriate discussions.

Ol'Rattler said:

Just so you know, deleting Federally mandated emission equipment is a Federal crime even if your state doesn't enforce it. When you sell your car and if the new owner tries to register it in a state that does enforce emission standards, they won't be able to until the emission equipment you so joyously removed is reinstalled.

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That is true, and a completely valid point. And definitely something the op should be aware of. What I find interesting is that many members here who seem appalled by dpf deletes have far less to say about egr, catalyst, or muffler deletes on the pre common rail cars. Even most aftermarket tunes (certification is required to be legal) are technically a federal offense- but that doesn't dissuade many who want a tune. What irritates me are the guys who want to overfuel mostly so that they can roll coal at the people in the car behind them.

You should read this through.
https://www.dmv.com/il/illinois/emissions-testing

Auto emissions testing in Illinois is not required for every vehicle, as there are certain state regulations which exempt drivers from needing smog certification verification. Maintaining a smog check history is important, regardless of exemption. Smog check exemptions are available for motorists who have vehicles year 1967 or older, or 1995 or older as long as the vehicle is compliant with the Illinois Vehicle Emissions Inspection Law as of February 1, 2007. Other emissions inspection exemptions include the following and more:

Diesel vehicles
Electric vehicles
Motorcycles and mopeds
Antique vehicles
Custom vehicles
Street rods
Farm vehicles

So your probably flying under the radar if you keep the smoke down but dont toss or sell any of those parts just in case.

So what's the problem here?
The brother doesn't know how to use VCDS?
Doesn't RossTech offer "support" for the big bucks you pay them for the tool?
Contact them and ask to guide on how to do the logging of requested values.

To me it looks like just a tune from different engine/revision has been flashed to the ECU.

I don't see what the issue is. I just send Malone whatever log they request. You guys make it too hard. Tuning is not risk free so don't think it's the end all be all. if it doesn't work out, go back to stock and stfu.

one thing to be mindful on all builds that puts more fuel in is your EGT. you dont want this to go to high or you will melt the turbo. Highly suggest that you get a EGT gauge if you keep the tune. its cheep insurance on an expensive part

If you remove EGR system, the EGT will go high, especially during summertime at highway driving. Even on stock tune, I think.

EGR only opens when cold right? how would that cause more egt when running hot?

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=539724.

Some pics we currently are trying to vcds. Step 3 is measuring blocks in one pic you can see we cannot click on this, so we are using the keywords malone gave us and is coming up with many options for each, we can only data log 12 paramaters at a time so we need specifics of what to data log to send malone

Multiple logs. Log 12 then log another 12 etc.

My issue here is the dealer he went to. If there were issues that is what the dealer is supposed to handle. It should be the dealer who is responsible for logging and communicating with the tuner.

Who did all of the mechanical delete work?

Mongler98 said:

EGR only opens when cold right? how would that cause more egt when running hot?

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Wrong.

Imortl said:

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=539724.

Some pics we currently are trying to vcds. Step 3 is measuring blocks in one pic you can see we cannot click on this, so we are using the keywords malone gave us and is coming up with many options for each, we can only data log 12 paramaters at a time so we need specifics of what to data log to send malone

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Do the logging in batches under the same conditions.
I would suggesti logging no more than 5 parameters at time because sampling speed drops a lot the more parameters you add.
Seriously, you paid big bucks for that vcds, why don't you want to contact their support and ask some assistance for your money?

To OP if you are still having issues are either of these trusted mechanics near you? There is a list by state.

Illinois
DuPage Auto Werks, Ltd.
850 Meadowview
Crossing Drive
West Chicago, IL 60185
(630) 231-4444
www.dupageautowerks.com/webpage/htmls/homepage.html


Mobile One, Inc.
2010 Lehigh Ave. Unit F
Glenview, IL 60026
847-724-7097
http://www.mobileoneinc.com
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...postcount=1057
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.p...postcount=1065

Good luck, John

Mongler98 said:

one thing to be mindful on all builds that puts more fuel in is your EGT. you dont want this to go to high or you will melt the turbo. Highly suggest that you get a EGT gauge if you keep the tune. its cheep insurance on an expensive part

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High (sustained) egt's will melt pistons, not turbos.

rpm-inc said:

High (sustained) egt's will melt pistons, not turbos.

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that too. first to go is the turbo. improper fuel spray will take out a piston but egts if they get hot enough will take it all out in one shot. the piston is cooled a bit from oil vs non from a much smaller thermal mass of a turbo impeller.

dont ask me how i know, not my first turbo i have melted. not on a VW though.

When you get EGT's high enough like that, the piston sees much less of that heat than the turbo does. turbos work better the closer they are to the head, fuel is still being burnt and the compression of the turbo helps burn more of it making even more power. 4 pistons worth of fuel exhaust going into one area is more work than the one piston gets its self. i used to see 1600 plenty of times and according to garret thats not going to melt hte turbo unless it was a sustained heat. its defiantly not good but it still shows no sign of damage. this is also probably due to the fact that 1600 is the reading form the EGT probe that has much less thermal mass than the turbo impeller. Hence sustained heat verses spike heat.

Henrick said:

So what's the problem here?
The brother doesn't know how to use VCDS?
Doesn't RossTech offer "support" for the big bucks you pay them for the tool?

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That's really hilarious. For what it does, VCDS is a bargain. For any other car brand, try to find a diagnostic tool with VCDS's capability that costs less than $1000.

Why should it be up to Ross Tech to teach someone with zero understanding of how the systems on their car function Automotive 101? As far as using VCDS, the Ross Tech website and WIKI are a VG resource and their customer support is second to none.

By far the most important tool in you tool box is knowledge and if you don't put in the effort to educate yourself, any diagnostic tool including VCDS is nothing more than a paper weight.