Starting a TDI in Extremely Cold Weather

Matthew Panchisin

New member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Location
Ill
TDI
2004 passat
I have a 2004 VW Passat TDI that was always very difficult to start (if at all) in extremely cold weather. I love the vehicle, I get 45 miles per gallon. After messing with oil dip sticks and block heaters etc. that never work well the solution I found was cheap and very effective. I bought a single burner "hot plate" from Walgreens for $15.00, I place it on 2 bricks and set it under the oil pan which is located about a foot and and an half back from the front grill. It works great, there is a dial to adjust the temp so when it is extremely cold I just turn it up, it heats everything up within 45 minutes. The car turns right over as starts right away like it does in the summer time. Best regards.
 

ScottySK

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Location
Beaumont, AB (CA)
TDI
03 Jetta GLS
I have a 2004 VW Passat TDI that was always very difficult to start (if at all) in extremely cold weather. I love the vehicle, I get 45 miles per gallon. After messing with oil dip sticks and block heaters etc. that never work well the solution I found was cheap and very effective. I bought a single burner "hot plate" from Walgreens for $15.00, I place it on 2 bricks and set it under the oil pan which is located about a foot and and an half back from the front grill. It works great, there is a dial to adjust the temp so when it is extremely cold I just turn it up, it heats everything up within 45 minutes. The car turns right over as starts right away like it does in the summer time. Best regards.

That’s one way to start a fire.


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JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
I have a 2004 VW Passat TDI that was always very difficult to start (if at all) in extremely cold weather. I love the vehicle, I get 45 miles per gallon. After messing with oil dip sticks and block heaters etc. that never work well the solution I found was cheap and very effective. I bought a single burner "hot plate" from Walgreens for $15.00, I place it on 2 bricks and set it under the oil pan which is located about a foot and and an half back from the front grill. It works great, there is a dial to adjust the temp so when it is extremely cold I just turn it up, it heats everything up within 45 minutes. The car turns right over as starts right away like it does in the summer time. Best regards.
Or you could actually try to fix the problem... glow plugs, glow plug harness, really good battery, new fuel filter and making sure your timing is correct.

I use a frostheater because I like heat coming out of the vents as quick as possible.
 

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
I happened to watch a bunch of cold start videos on youtube (addictive stuff) and noticed that Dodge pickups are pretty bad at starting in cold weather!!
In some videos you can even see green grass around the truck so it's not even very cold, but still they are very unhappy.
Why is that?
Which Cummins? It all has to do with the fuel system. My truck takes up to a minute of cranking to fire at 0 degrees F, but my buddy's Cummins starts as soon as the common rail builds the minimum amount of pressure for the ECU to start firing the injectors, which is usually 2-3 cranks. The difference is that my truck has static timing and a pretty low pop pressure, but my buddy's fuel system runs up to 40,000 psi with multiple injection events and an extremely wide range of dynamic timing. There's videos of the newer 6.7 Cummins firing up with no problem at -30f, but the older trucks will need to say a prayer at the same temp.

The '89-'93 6BT Cummins is a mechanical VE rotary pump with dynamic timing, they aren't too bad to start. The '94-'98 has an inline pump with static timing, they start fine from the factory, but they'll need ether to start if the timing is bumped high enough. The '98.5-2002 has the VP44 rotary pump, it's somewhat similar to the VP37 in the ALH, and it starts about just as well. 2003-2004 is the first generation common rail with only 2 injection events and starts a little better, 2004.5-2005 has some minor improvements, 2006-2007 has similar injectors and controls as the 2007.5-2012 6.7, these have a large improvements in software and more injection events, they start very well in the cold. 2013 and newer have a more advanced ECU and high injection pressure. People complain about the 2013 and newer requiring a few extra cranks to start, but that's the injectors refusing to open until rail pressure builds. The last generation starts better than a gas engine in cold weather.
 

Matthew Panchisin

New member
Joined
Jan 13, 2018
Location
Ill
TDI
2004 passat
Dear ScottySK,

It's the same principle as putting a pot on a stove, the hotplate is just sitting under the oil pan, it works great, besides my insurance covers fires. In Antarctica they do light logs and put them under oil pans.
 

vincej

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Location
Calgary
TDI
2014 Golf Wagon
We got back from holidays after a week of the car parked at the airport. Oil is the Castrol 5-30 synthetic as supplied by VW. -25C and it started surprisingly quick with a momentary stumble 2 or 3 seconds later. Next day I get an engine light and the cheap OBII reader says engine misfire. Cleared it but now the light has come back. I guess it will stay on until I return the car or go for the fix.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Dear ScottySK,

It's the same principle as putting a pot on a stove, the hotplate is just sitting under the oil pan, it works great, besides my insurance covers fires. In Antarctica they do light logs and put them under oil pans.
That's impossible, as Antarctica has neither trees nor bushes. ;)
 

crazyrunner33

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Location
NC
TDI
'10 Golf(bought back)
It's important to note that the ISL and the ISB uses a totally different fuel system. My buddy has both the ISL in a Western Star and the ISB, the last generation of the ISB(2013 and newer) will start in a heart beat in the coldest weather. There's videos of the newer ISB starting close to -40c better than my PD TDI at -10c. We'll sometimes do some dirt biking in the mountains in the winter, and the following morning we play our favorite game, see if it starts. The ISL starts like the PD TDI, the 2014 ISB with close to 400k starts without a hitch, and the 12 valve won't start at -10c without ether.
 

Doulop

New member
Joined
Jan 23, 2018
Location
Newburg, Pa
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Hi everyone, I can't figure out how to create my own post so I am sorry. I have been having this issue and it is really starting to get the best of me and money. I have a 2001 Jetta ALH 5 speed manual with 349,000 miles. Car runs excellent BUT when it is cold, it is so hard to start. When I say cold, I am talking anything below 35 degrees Farenheight. I have replaced everything I can think of except the Injection pump. I was having glowplug issues last year to where the computer wasn't telling them to stay on long enough. Replaced the relays, the plugs, harness, temperature sensor, everything glowplug related. The only thing we came to conclusion on is the computer wasn't allowing the glowplugs to heat up enough. I had a shop install a manual glowplug switch on my dash that I am able to turn on/off myself. Got in the car the next morning, let them heat up for 30 seconds and the car started as if it was the middle of summer. It worked great all winter. This year, problems again. Pulled all 4 plugs and tested them. 2 were bad so we replaced them. Harness is good, every port is working and my switch is working. Still, when it is below 35, the colder the worse, I will let the glowplugs heat up for 40 seconds, and the car still turns over for 8-10 seconds while the engine jerks and bounces around until she finally fires off. What else could it be? Sounds like a fuel issue. I have replaced the fuel sending unit, the check valve and Mickey Mouse Clip, fuel filter is replaced every 10,000 miles and the last time was 900 miles ago. I am at a loss. Is there anything on the Injection pump that needs replaced or cleaned, etc? Jeff from Rocketchip just re-installed his Stage 2 tune since I just replaced my injectors and nozzles. He said fuel and air looked excellent when running. Has anyone experienced this? Please help if you can. Thank you!
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Sounds like there may still be an issue with the glowplugs. You can buy a cheap voltmeter that will plug into the lighter port. The voltage should drop down below 12V when the plugs are on before starting.
 

eddieleephd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2012
Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
Timing, if you have the timing set a bit wrong cold starts can be harder, much harder. If you have Vag-com you can check it and change it a bit to see if it helps.

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AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
You don't need to glow the plugs for 40 seconds. 15 to 20 seconds is more than enough. Glowing plugs do pull a lot of current from the battery, albeit, these systems are much easier on battery drain. Also, always raise the park brake to turn off the head lights before attempting to start the engine.

Timing, as eddieleephd said, should be checked. It needs to be smidge above the center line in the graph for excellent starting.

Injection quantity should be looked at.

I sort of doubt that high mileage is a factor, but maybe at some point you might ought to check compression. I have an 01 at my garage now with 410k miles on it. It starts okay, but could be better. At those miles, it could be a combo of issues.

My previously owned 2000, starts good at 371k miles (son owns it now).
 

red16vdub

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2013
Location
(617) City of CHAMPIONS
TDI
03 JSW 5spd
As been said before 15-20 seconds is more than enough. I personally would get rid of that make shift switch and rewire it the way it’s supposed to be. Use VCDS to extend the glow plug time, If that still doesn’t work, try swapping maybe to a different brand of plug. I know that for some reason my wagon doesn’t like Bosch glow plugs, so I used Beru which gives me consistent starts regardless of temperature in both my tdi’s.


Bajan
 

Maddawg

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Strathroy Ontario Canada
TDI
Jetta 2003.500.000 kms. 2001JETTA TDI.
defrost

I live in cold climates. I hAVE. 03 JETTA tdi with over 500,000 on it. I have no issues with cold starts following the double glow plugs start. turn on till light goes out and repeat. Issue I have is defrost. It takesno time at all to get windows fogged up and even Frost inside on side windows. I always have it on fresh air setting or it gets too foggy and only on recirculate when I'm really cold. The engine temp never exceeds the third notch when driving.. I doubt changing the thermostat will help but open for anything. Unlikely it's stuck open or it would never read on gauge. Not sure what temp thermostat is as I haven't pulled it to check yet. Was going to install the old cardboard trick but can't get it in there. Will a bra do the trick?? I am going to order a winter thermostat anyway. I know from talking to friends that also have same issue that there's not much in the way of heat in the winter with a desiel but a little more heat would be fantastic. Frost inside vehicle is never a good thing. Anyone else with this issue and any other ideas???. PS. Bought a seat warmers at Canadian Tire today on sale for 44$. Warm as at least. Highly recommended.:
 

HPsenicka

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Location
Orangeville, Ontario
TDI
2 x 2004 Jetta Sport BEW (Malone Stage 1.5), 2014 GSW TDI - Wolfsburg Edition, 2015 Passat TDI -Sport Trim
I live in cold climates. .... The engine temp never exceeds the third notch when driving.. I doubt changing the thermostat will help but open for anything. Unlikely it's stuck open or it would never read on gauge. Not sure what temp thermostat is as I haven't pulled it to check yet. Was going to install the old cardboard trick but can't get it in there. Will a bra do the trick?? I am going to order a winter thermostat anyway. I know from talking to friends that also have same issue that there's not much in the way of heat in the winter with a desiel but a little more heat would be fantastic. Frost inside vehicle is never a good thing. Anyone else with this issue and any other ideas???. PS. Bought a seat warmers at Canadian Tire today on sale for 44$. Warm as at least. Highly recommended.:

There is only one recommended thermostat for these cars...no winter/summer options on modern cars.


For a cheap and easy way of blocking the grille in front of the rad, go to Canadian tire and buy a length of the foam pipe insulation that is intended to insulate a 1/2" copper pipe. Cut this into suitable lengths with a box cutter and press it into place over the horizontal pieces of the grill, both above and below the bumper.


Cheaper and easier than installing a bra.
 

scooperhsd

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
Kansas City KS
TDI
NB, 2000, RED(5 Speed conversion) 2015 Golf SE
You might try putting your Air Conditioner on when running the defrost. It will help dry the air and put some load on the engine....
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
You might try putting your Air Conditioner on when running the defrost. It will help dry the air and put some load on the engine....
I know what you are saying but when it is really cold it is very hard to turn on the AC. At idle the car will never get warm anyway. An auxiliary heater is the only way to go. A Frostheater to start and then a ceramic 12v or diesel fired air heater could be used.
 

freedomlives

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2011
Location
Slovakia
TDI
2005 VW Transporter T5, 1999 Skoda Octavia I 1.9TDI
I second the recommendations about an auxiliary heater. Our Octavia did always eventually warm up, but my newer T5 Transporter has a Webasto, and that is great. I don't (yet) have the option for independently starting the Webasto, so it starts when I start the engine, but the van is warm after 5-10 minutes.



And apparently necessary for fuel economy. The motor (2.5l PD AXD) gets around 9 liters/100km. The manual states that when the engine is below freezing, the fuel consumption is 80 liters / 100km. Or in other words, better to burn some diesel in the auxillary heater. :)
 

Maddawg

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Strathroy Ontario Canada
TDI
Jetta 2003.500.000 kms. 2001JETTA TDI.
thanks guys. Never even heard of that auxillary. heaterr before. It's not cheap but vey. interested. in purchasing it.Any recommended models?. or the one that came up in amazon.that nightflyer put up there for me?. Sucks that winter could be over with by the time it arrives also.. I bought the insulation for the grilles but they will fly off unless I put zip ties on them. I will get. a bunch of them. Snow squalls and cold warnings up here at Port Elgin Ontario. - 20 to - 35 Celsius expected.. would be nice to have that heater now LOL
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
The VW one (Webastro sp?) costs over a $1k and then install on top of that IIRC. So the ones I listed on eBay are cheap. I have no idea if they work or have any quality about them though. Just a way to make some hot air when it is very cold.

I am just the opposite though as I am in Central Texas and we have the AC on 99.9% of the time trying to cool off.
 

Maddawg

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Strathroy Ontario Canada
TDI
Jetta 2003.500.000 kms. 2001JETTA TDI.
LOL. nice. I looked it up on the amozon site you gave me and it's around 168$ But still worth it I think. Read the reviews and they were good.Wanna trade weather? lol
 

Lightflyer1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
Is that a quick draw black powder gun show or the stupid car show? Not a big fan of the latter, but I really like blowing stuff up!
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
The engine temp never exceeds the third notch when driving.
Change the thermostat.

My ALH was the same last winter. Changed the thermostat while doing the timing belt, now it gets to the center of the gauge within 10km even when it's -25C out.

Simon
 
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