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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > TDI Model Specific Discussions Areas > VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014)

VW MKVI-A6 Golf family including Jetta SportWagen (~ 2010-2014) Discussions area for A6/MkVI (2010-2014) Golf and Golf Wagons (Jetta Sportwagon in the USA).

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Old January 4th, 2018, 18:49   #1
cliballe
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TDI(s): 2010 Jetta
Fuel Economy: 40 mpg
Default Botched (in my opinion) Dealer Timing Belt Service

I recently had my Timing Belt/Water Pump Service done at my local dealer as I still had the $500 Goodwill Dealer Cash on my account. I do all my other maintenance and I figured at the time this option would save me a little time and cash as I do not even own the tools.

Several weeks prior I had called in to the Service Dept. to try and get a feel for their knowledge on this procedure. I asked them about changing the water pump and all of the TTY bolts in addition to the timing belt/tensioner/rollers, and they re-assured me that yes they could do the procedure so I made the appointment.

I dropped the car off the night before and on the key drop box bag I wrote explicit instructions to replace the timing belt, tensioner, rollers/idlers, water pump, all TTY bolts, and top off with fresh G13 coolant. I also marked "Yes" on the bag that I wanted all the old parts. When I started looking through the parts upon returning home I got that sick feeling in my stomach as a lot of stuff was missing.

I am inserting my invoice to ask if you all think this service was complete? From the best I can tell they did not replace any of the three rollers and they replaced about half of the TTY hardware. Should I be concerned that this service and the reused hardware will not last another 120K miles? When I asked the service advisor about the rollers he said they never replace them and that they "looked fine." Does anyone have a VW service manual that states to replace all of these items?

I called VW Customer Care and they were unable to help... telling me to go back to the dealer. Is there another VW support line I can call to ask for assistance, or should I write them a letter?

I've learned my lesson: If you want something done right, do it yourself. This just sucks though.



http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/1126450



http://www.supermotors.net/registry/media/1126451

Last edited by cliballe; January 25th, 2018 at 18:41.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 19:27   #2
aja8888
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I'd ask the dealer what "looked fine" means in terms of bearing life in the rollers.

I'd also ask them if the belt fails within its specified life (120K miles?) due to a roller bearing failure, are they going to cover all resultant damage?

They didn't follow your instructions so I would request them to redo the job correctly.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 20:16   #3
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Unfortunately, the dealer is really the last place you should go for a timing belt job. You don't have to do it yourself to have it done right though. There are plenty of skilled indie mechanics familiar with tdi's out there. But it definitely is one of the more rewarding jobs to do yourself.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 04:49   #4
740GLE
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When I called around to have my TB done in my Jetta, the local dealer said they don't touch the water pump unless it "looks like it needs changing" as that's what the book instructs them to, hence why their price was around $700 for a TB job.

I took it to a local Indy shop and paid around $1100 for it, and I think it was only that high cause I asked for the WP and didn't get the core refund.

In hind sight, the TB job lasted me about a year and a half and 20K before the car went back to VW, but I tell myself it was cheap insurance.

I'd be more concerned about rollers rather than the TTY bolts. Another thing that may have sunk your ship was just dropping off the Keys and not having that face to face conversion and seeing the written up service order before giving the keys. The uploaded documents state they didn't change rollers. Does the dealer still have the drop off form you signed stating asking for rollers?
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Old January 5th, 2018, 06:24   #5
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Crazy stuff. You specifically asked for certain things to be done and they didn't do them. You will have to decide for yourself what to do about it from here, but I would say that higher management needs to get involved.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 14:11   #6
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Today I saw a car. It was an early MY2011 with 2.0 TDI engine (CFFB). The odometer showed 201'000 km (125k miles). The car went for timing belt service.

I inspected the old components. It seemed that the belt, tensioner and three rollers/idlers were manufactured in mid-2014 (date stamps) and are OE VW (VW part numbers and logos everywhere). The water pump has got manufacture stamp of 2015-06.

All small rollers, including the tensioner were making the "bad bearing" sound. They all had shaft play. The small roller which resides between HPFP and the cam sprocket has even a grease leak. Though the large roller/idler looked and sounded fine, as well the bearing felt tight. The belt (VW OE, Dayco) looked fine with no signs of wear/aging.

Water pump (VW OE, not the "X" part) looks like it has been replaced really recently. The seal is not fully crushed, no sediments on the inside, no signs of corrosion, etc, besides, it looks clean.

So much of the long TB interval myth. I don't have an idea how many miles this car has covered in the past 2-2.5 years (since the last TB service).. But it was the first time I saw such exhausted TB components.

Last edited by Henrick; January 5th, 2018 at 14:13.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 20:57   #7
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I don't know- when I did my timing belt service at 125k miles, all of the components I replaced were nearly indistinguishable from the new parts other than a little patina on the metal surfaces. Pretty sure they could have lasted another 50-100k.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:35   #8
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Before Christmas I took my 2010 JSWto the dealer for Timing belt and WP change. (128,000 MI) Car ran perfectly before. When i got it back, it seemed to run well, however after the car has been fully driven and i stop for a short time, when i restart the car it starts runs for 1-2 seconds and dies. It might do this 3-4 times and then start and stay running fully. I just completed a 2400 mile cross country trip, and this happend at 4 of the 6 fuel stops. My mileage seems a little off, but it was cold (9- 20F) on winter fuel, and running the car topper. (I've done this same trip before and maybe i had 36-38 mpg with topper, but had 31-33 mpg now driving similar speeds.)

I suspect possibly some thing was off on the timing belt change, but not sure what. It did do this immedialy on a christmast shopping test run, but i thought i hadn't held glow plugs long enough and the 3rd time it started. On the trip WHen it dies it says service now, however after restarting 2-3 times it never keeps the check engine light on . Always starts first time when cold. Any ideas what to check?

I'm going to return to dealer on Monday for the emissions fix, however i'm worried about compounding problems. It ran perfectly before the timing belt replacment, so i'm suspect that possibly that the fuel pump is off a cog. Seems like i should insist they redo the timing belt job. I do have VAGcom, and going to scan, but not sure which module i should concentrate on, to see if there's any timing issues the computer sees and i can document. (The car seems to run well, except for the start issue, but it's hard to tell if i'm now getting 90% engine perfrmance instead of 100%.)
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Old January 6th, 2018, 12:51   #9
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One cog on the common rail hpfp probably wouldn't make a noticeable difference. They aren't like previous tdi's where injection pump timing was critical. My cp3 pump can be clocked any way and perform the same. I think it's more likely the timing between the crank and camshafts could be off by a tooth or two.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 13:45   #10
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I agree with turbobrick here.

As an aside, while I understand you chosing this thread to post in since you have problems after a dealer TB change, , I think that you will have better luck getting help if you start your own thread.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 16:21   #11
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@cliballe

I'd do a few things:

1) Talk to the general manager directly... avoid the service manager who will feel compelled to defend his turf. Ask for a redo of the service with all the rollers and idlers and a new belt installed, coolant flushed, etc. Mark your belt and idlers to ensure they get changed. Make sure you get the old parts back. Insist on a loaner/rental for the inconvenience. Do not accept any new charges; had they done the job as you asked the first time they wouldn't be playing catch up.

2) Call VW-USA and complain about the dealer's service and client care. This should not have happened. If the dealership tries to turn the responsibility back on you, odds are they're passing the buck to avoid any liability.

3) Continue to document the process online (here or elsewhere) so you have a timeline to back up any of your claims should things devolve any further. Best to protect yourself.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 16:46   #12
cliballe
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Thanks for all the comments and insight so far, everyone. I had tried to call today to talk to the Service Manager, but apparently he does not work Saturdays. Anyways I will call on Monday and speak directly to the General Manager and post my results here. I should have pressed the Service Advisor harder the day after when he told me his story. I'll either get it in writing that they'll cover anything related damage, or I'll have them redo the service with ALL the parts.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 16:05   #13
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On my issue on 2010 JSW tdi of failing to start when fully warmed up after timing belt change @ 128,000 miles ,(normal 190 degrees tempreture) , on short shutdown interval, (Fuel, and or <5 min stop) After returning home tonight I decided to do a VCDS scan and received an engine fault:

000022 - Bank 1: CMP Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P0016 - 000 - Incorrect Correlation - Intermittent
Fault Frequency: 11


Searching on Web, i've seen another person with same error after they did their own timing belt change. where on reinspection they said the install was off half a tooth on cam alighment. They were able to fix the problem by redoing the timing belt install.

Ross Tech reports as Physical Timing Issue.
Possible Causes
Timing Issue
Camshaft Adjuster
Possible Solutions
Check Setting of Timing Belt
Check Timing of Intake/Exhaust Cams
Check Cam Adjusters as per Repair Manual

Since this occured within 200 miles and 2 days of dealer change, i'm headed back to dealer tomorrow to have them redo their timing belt job. I am a little disappoitned as i had it done before the large Christmas > New Years trip, specifically to ensure we didn't have any issues, but encountered lower fuel economy and multiple attempts to restart in 9 degree middle of the night fuel stops. (30-32 MPG vs 38 MPG with 2 adults, 2 kids, Dog and car topper on previous trips.) Luckily never stranded.

I had originally planed on doing the initial job myself, but didn't have the tools required to do, nor time avialable at the holidays. I'll give the dealer a chance to fix thier work, and cross my fingers they do a good job. (I admit, i hate having other people work on my car, as I hate issues where bad procedures cause rework. I'll be satisfied if they get it fixed right without a hassle however.)

Thx TurboBrick and Whitedog for the advice. (I'll start a new thread if i need more assistance, but generally like the idea of having common problems under same thread.)

Cliballe, I looked at my invoice, and I was sold a Repair Kit, (03L-198-119-E) & a new water pump I did a google search on my timing belt kit part number, and it had all the rollers included. (Esc tuning shows pictures of what's included in the kit.)

I did find some example timing belt changes on youtube search for CJAA tdi timing belt). It shows the inside of what it looks like. I agree for a perfect job It would have been good to see the roller's on your itemized invoice.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 10:06   #14
cliballe
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I spoke with a General Manager on Monday a couple of times explaining my situation and questioning the completeness of the service. I ended up getting a call back from the Service Manager and had to go though the situation again with him.

I asked him if they still had the key drop off bag where I had written down exactly what I wanted done, and to my surprise they had scanned in a copy and saved it in there system. He read through it, and once he came to the part about replacing the idlers/rollers he paused and apologized that they had missed it originally. At that point he calls in the tech who did the service and asks him if it is normal to replace the rollers when doing the timing belt/tensioner. The tech says that no they never replace them... just the belt and tensioner and that he's never seen or heard of a problem.

After getting that information the SM asks where I want to go from there I ask if they can give me something in writing stating that if something goes wrong between now and the next Timing Belt Service that they will cover it. He said that he would not be able to do that, but he did offer to have the tech go back in and replace all the rollers and necessary hardware for only the price of the parts only (~$230). I say let me think about it and that I would come down to the dealership the next day to verify all the parts/part numbers (which I guess I should have done in the first place).

Yesterday after work I go down and talk with the SM. He has the parts diagram printed out and all the correct part numbers written down so I agreed to paying for the additional parts since I would've had to do that anyways had the job been complete from the beginning so at this point I don't have an issue doing that.

@robertsparker:

Did your invoice have all the replacement hardware noted on there? I'd be questioning that as well because that timing belt kit you posted does not include everything needed for the job IMO.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 16:17   #15
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We just got our car back. The dealer covered their rework and apoligized for the inconvenience. They told us the tensioner had been improperly adjusted causing the timing to be off. My guess is they failed to rotate the engine and recheck the timing after it was installed. We didn't have any damge to engine and i'm happy with the recourse we had at our dealer. No i don't have any thing on my invoice stating specifically what was included in the kit, other than cross referencing the kit number to see what should have been included.

At some point you have to put your faith in the work being done properly. My nature is trust but verify. Seems like the techs learn the easy way and sometimes thats not the most reliable, or faile to follow a checklist thinkig they have it down from repitition. It's unfortnate that with the dealer access to the inside service procedures, jobs and procedures end up being not consistent.

In addition to the timing belt reservice, we just had the emissions modification done. We hope to get another 5 years out of our 2010 JSW car, and with all the work just done i hope we can get that.
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