Crank but no start

Here I am again... after breaking my head with an electrical issue that I finally got under control thanks to help from this forum. I test drove the car and noticed the engine light was on after it struggled to start (had that happen once before months ago) it cranked but didn't want to start but finally did. Light stayed on. I left to test drive now car won't start. Cranks but won't start. Possible fuel pump? I don't hear it engage when I turn key. From time to time the gas gauge wouldn't work. Full tank for example but gauge should empty then suddenly would work again. I checked all the engine related fuses all seem good. Any ideas?

Normally no fuel pump to hear on a 2003 unless it was installed by you or previous owner.

Have you checked relay 109?

Did you look at the Car Won't Start thread at the top of this Forum?

I followed the steps on the car won't start thread relating to relay 109 but I cannot find relay 109. I've removed the plastic panels above drivers legs. I can see the relay panel but it doesn't have relay 109 on it. I can confirm that I do not and have never gotten the glow plug lights on my car. According to the car won't start thread I should be getting the glow plug lights when I turn the key. My car has never had the glow plug lights come on? I'm lost

The 109 is hidden right above a big black relay that's at the bottom of the fuse block. If you've never gotten a light my first thought is someone removed it but your car wouldn't start without it.


This is what you're looking for, yours may actually be black, but it will say 109 right across it.

http://www.idparts.com/relay-109-a4b4a3-p-350.html

What is the code that is causing the engine light?

I ordered a new relay yesterday and I should receive it Saturday but I removed the plastic covers to locate the relay today thats when I posted earlier saying I couldn't and haven't been able to locate it. I took pictures of the relay panel but can't upload them here. I see the large relay 377 but nothing above it. These are the only relays on the panel. In this order from top left 53 no other relays on top row with 2 15 amp fuses above the panel. On bottom from left to right are 53, 100, 409 and 377. No 109 black or grey anywhere on the panel. There's another smaller relay panel in the engine bay right infant of the driver side with 2 relays neither are 109.

I'll try and take a pic of my daughters 01 beetle fuse block in the am. It will be just slightly different from yours but the 109 will be in the same place.

Do you have access to anyone with VCDS, or do you know anyone that will loan you a generic scanner? VCDS would be the best, but if you see a bunch, and I mean a bunch of weird electrical errors the usual culprit is relay 109.
If I may be of any more help, just ask.

Is it safe to assume that you are not the original owner? If there is no relay 109, then it's possible that someone else jumped power direct to something like the fuel shut off solenoid, except that would drain the battery.

The other option is there is a relay in the correct spot but it is aftermarket and not marked. How about sending that picture to me via email and I can post it.

What were the electrical issues that you had? How did you fix them? Can you help us by providing a link to your posts about it?

This is the link to the electrical issue I had and how i fixed it... in short, it was the infamous melted fuse box on the Jettas - I had gone through 1 other wise box and 1 other black wire coming from alternator to fuse box. Replaced both and replaced battery and took care of the issue. Black wire does not heat up anymore its just warm to the touch as the other wires are.. Correct, I am not the original owner, Ive had to for 3 years and only once before it cranked and didn't start about 1 year ago, eventually it started and had been running fine since then aside from electrical issue. yestedray it cranked and didn't start but eventually did, after I test drover it after replacing the battery fuse box it wouldn't turn back on.. cranks and cranks but will not start thats when I started searching for answers and saw the posts about relay 109. my symptoms are exactly those of a bad relay 109 except I cannot find it anywhere

Sorry forgot to add link to electrical post thread... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=475511

Tim I sent you an email with the pics.

Thanks for the pictures. There ain't nuthin there. Do a Google image search on TDI really 109 location and it should be in the #12 slot, but his isn't there. Something is odd here.

I tried to get a pic this morning and after getting several partial pics I gave up. I found this on google which I think is from a thread on tdi club somewhere. Apparently if your car has beeen running and you don't have a 109 relay someone must have taken some creative liberties with your wiring. Which may ultimately be part of the reason for your other wiring problem.
http://[url=http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=122104&title=img-00206&cat=500][/URL]
My aborted attempts.
http://[url=http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=122103&title=img-09194&cat=500][/URL]

That 377 relay is what it is hiding above.

The panel on my car looks slightly different and doesn't have the relay 109 on it. I can't seem to upload pics on here to show everyone. On my car there's nothing above the large relay 377. In fact I don't even think it has a socket it's just an opening. No socket and no relay 109

tdijarhead I sent you an email with pics

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Nope nothing there. Maybe its time for some history on this car. What do you know about it?

I was able to find a picture online that matches exactly to my relay panel. Could it be that I'm missing relay 109 because my Jetta is a 2.0 gas engine? I also found a diagram online that show relay 109 is diesel only
http://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techar..._and_Relay_Replacement/images_small/pic02.jpg

Not much. I bought it 3 years ago. No major issues in the past. It was running fine aside from the melted fuse box issue I fixed. When I installed the new fuse box after replacing battery and alternator wire that's when the engine light came on and it was rough to start would crank and crank then eventually started. Then drove it. When I went to restart it would crank and crank but wouldn't and still won't start. I also read online about relay 428 on the 2.0 Jetta and crankshaft position sensor which both would cause similar symptoms of crank but no start

Your 2.0 gas engine has many different appurtances from the 1.9 TDI.
Some of us will now be Confused.

So I think because this is a diesel forum, we all jumped to the conclusion that you had a TDI not a gasser. Yes the 109 is diesel specific. I have never owned a gas powered VW in my life so I'm a little lost when it comes to the 2.0.

VW vortex is probably where you should ask about your 2.0. I do know that you need Air, fuel & spark to achieve combustion. You're not getting one of those. Good Luck.

I'm not even going to take the time to find a double face palm meme.

Lots of time wasted here...

At least I got a laugh out of this one.

Thanks white.

How....?
I mean WHAT?
How do you end up on tdiclub with a gas engine?
I don't mean to be rude but I'm face palming super hard here...
Hope you find your solution Alex but... What the..?

It's his fuel pump.
We got to Post #19 before I realized we were chasing our tails!