2004 Passat TDI Wagon build - Manual swap, tune...

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
The computer should be re-programmed to delete the auto, and that includes the auto module bypass. Without that the car is not happy. A Stage tune is substantially more money, and not necessary, but like Windex said... "where's the fun in that"?! A gasser transmission will not have the right ratios to make the car happy with a diesel. Some have done it and they have felt it acceptable to them, some have done it, drove it, couldn't live with it and swapped it for a Diesel transmission. YMMV. I went with the recommendations of the experts and got a Euro diesel transmission from Frans. Why do it with a gas transmission only to discover it sucks?
 

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
NEXT PROJECT: 4Motion...

Wanted for a V6 4Motion swap project. I'm looking for a VERY nice parts car, Passat TDI 2000-2005 or so. My preference would be for a low-ish mileage car, say, 150k or so, well maintained that perhaps was wrecked or suffered some other indignity. I need ALL the under-hood parts intact so a serious front-end collision would not be what I'm looking for. Was your perfect car hammered in a rear-end collision? Did you just sink big money into the balance shaft delete only to be crunched by a tree? That's the kind of car I'm looking for. I have a trailer and will consider long distances and I'll pay good money for the right car. See my other thread for a description. If you know of a good donor car please keep me in mind. Thanks for your consideration, Duteman
 

50mpgtdi

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Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I checked prices on malone's website. The auto delete is $299 but they knock it down to $124 if purchased with a tune....so turns out, that's where the fun is! haha! And I know the gear ratios aren't ideal in the v6 transmission, but I found a donor car that I'll be picking up tomorrow. With the tune, a flywheel, clutch kit, and donor car, I'm looking at having the entire swap done for $1200. I don't do a ton of interstate driving, so I don't think it will be a big problem for me. I can always upgrade the transmission later on when more funds are available.
 

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
I checked prices on malone's website. The auto delete is $299 but they knock it down to $124 if purchased with a tune....so turns out, that's where the fun is! haha! And I know the gear ratios aren't ideal in the v6 transmission, but I found a donor car that I'll be picking up tomorrow. With the tune, a flywheel, clutch kit, and donor car, I'm looking at having the entire swap done for $1200. I don't do a ton of interstate driving, so I don't think it will be a big problem for me. I can always upgrade the transmission later on when more funds are available.
Sounds good! Start a thread so we can follow your project!
 

duteman2

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Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
First impressions!!! Wow!

OK this tune, BSD and clutch set-up is freakin' awesome! The engine revs freely, torque like mad! Been commuting with it for three days now and could not be happier with the engine. It can chirp the tires in second gear, no problem, and presses your head against the backrest as it easily pulls through 4000RPM without even breathing hard. The stock Turbo kicks in smoothly and combines for a very pleasing driving experience, to say the least! I DO have an issue with the transmission... even though it is a "Euro Diesel" transmission, a DUK, I feel like I could use another gear or two. Astounding torque makes gears almost irrelevant! First gear is really like a granny gear now and on level-ground standing starts, second gear seems effortless, the engine just pulls. I would like a higher top gear, too, the car gets to cruising speed in a blink, 70MPH is around 2500RPM. In my humble opinion I'd like that to be around 2000RPM. But that's just me. I did a un-scientific MPG commuting test at 65MPH and was approaching 44MPG, but that was only over 35 miles, it was still averaging higher at a steady pace when I had to break off. I don't doubt this car could approach 50MPG over a long trip if you kept your foot out of it, but, where's the fun in that?!?
 

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Correction, 70MPH comes at 2350RPM. The car feels like it just has way more engine than gears. So now I have to start fully sorting out this build... it needs Wheels and tires, the interior and body need refreshing, ... New double din Electronics, I miss hands-free phone from the more modern cars... All in the near future and likely in that order. I like the driving experience so far enough that I can see me ending up with way too much money in it! I totaled up the costs so far: car purchase, BSD, and conversion install work from Mike McCann, Flywheel, HD clutch, DUK transmission and conversion kit from Frans, suspension from Kerma and Modded Euros... Just under $9000.00 I could have got a lot of cars for that kind of money and while I could have held out for a better car to start with, cleaner, perfect body...that would typically up the total. I bought this one cheap with a blown transmission and am very happy with the product. We hope to live with this car for quite some time.
 

50mpgtdi

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Location
Platteville WI
TDI
04 VW Passat TDI
I'm glad to hear you are happy with the swap! It makes me excited to get mine started! I just got all the parts to do my BSD a couple days ago and got my donor car picked up this past weekend. So the stage 2 tune, that works well with stock intake and exhaust then? No other supporting mods needed for the tune?
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
This is awesome to hear. My parts are on order from Frans, I'll be updating my build log once I get them. I also went with a DUK and got a set of Bilstein sport shocks to freshen up the suspension a bit.
 

duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
I'm glad to hear you are happy with the swap! It makes me excited to get mine started! I just got all the parts to do my BSD a couple days ago and got my donor car picked up this past weekend. So the stage 2 tune, that works well with stock intake and exhaust then? No other supporting mods needed for the tune?
Yes, the stock turbo and intake seem to be fine with the Stage 2 tune. The more I drive it the better it feels, really like the car should have been delivered from the factory just like this. Smooth, effortless acceleration all the way through the gears with only 50% throttle. Step on it in any gear and there is power to spare, in a blink you're doing 80. I do wish I had another gear...
 
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duteman2

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
This is awesome to hear. My parts are on order from Frans, I'll be updating my build log once I get them. I also went with a DUK and got a set of Bilstein sport shocks to freshen up the suspension a bit.
The DUK is not so bad, very liveable. Hi gear is not high enough to suit me but I was not going to spend another thousand bucks for a sixth gear and the FHN's ratios, while a bit better, did not seem worth waiting for, and extra coin, so, I'll just have to live with it! I'm usually a Bilstein guy but got a deal on orange Koni's for 50% off from Kerma, so, I went with those. I got mildly lowered... About 3/4 of an inch... H&R springs from Modded Euros, also for 50% off. It's a good package, no longer a cushy family car but it's not harsh at all, a bit bouncy on bad pavement, but it really handles well. There is a new bridge on I95 in New Haven, Ct and the merge from I91 south onto I95 east is a two lane "S" curve onto the bridge. It's almost... but not quite... perfectly banked and this car takes it at 65 just flat and smooth. Love it!
 

d0u8l3m

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
The DUK is not so bad, very liveable. Hi gear is not high enough to suit me but I was not going to spend another thousand bucks for a sixth gear and the FHN's ratios, while a bit better, did not seem worth waiting for, and extra coin, so, I'll just have to live with it! I'm usually a Bilstein guy but got a deal on orange Koni's for 50% off from Kerma, so, I went with those. I got mildly lowered... About 3/4 of an inch... H&R springs from Modded Euros, also for 50% off. It's a good package, no longer a cushy family car but it's not harsh at all, a bit bouncy on bad pavement, but it really handles well. There is a new bridge on I95 in New Haven, Ct and the merge from I91 south onto I95 east is a two lane "S" curve onto the bridge. It's almost... but not quite... perfectly banked and this car takes it at 65 just flat and smooth. Love it!

You mean the Q bridge? That's sick, I'm on the other side of the state over in Tolland and we have some nice twisties and back roads around that I have a blast on with the tiptronic. You basically said all the reasons I went with a DUK too, way cheaper and less of a hassle. An extra gear would be nice, but not cost effective on such an old car. Though there is a white 2015 6 speed TDI I saw at a VW dealer, that would probably be worth it if you don't mind a car payment.

I'm keeping the stock springs on, I didn't want to lower the car at all with all the potholes and crap we have in good ole CT. If its still too stiff, I might look into springs, too bad that sale isn't still going on.
 

duteman2

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Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
You mean the Q bridge? That's sick, I'm on the other side of the state over in Tolland and we have some nice twisties and back roads around that I have a blast on with the tiptronic. You basically said all the reasons I went with a DUK too, way cheaper and less of a hassle. An extra gear would be nice, but not cost effective on such an old car. Though there is a white 2015 6 speed TDI I saw at a VW dealer, that would probably be worth it if you don't mind a car payment.
I'm keeping the stock springs on, I didn't want to lower the car at all with all the potholes and crap we have in good ole CT. If its still too stiff, I might look into springs, too bad that sale isn't still going on.
The "New-Q", right! Beautiful bridge. A new TDI would be great, but, the price is right for fixing up this Passat wagon. I've had Golf's and Jetta's, old and newer, and our first TDI was a 2006 Passat sedan... all the rest are TDI's and we even have an e-Golf (NICE car, for another discussion...) and while the convenience electronics on this Passat are crude by modern standards it still rides great, has gobs of interior room, is very comfortable... even with the spring kit... and with a new interior and paint job I'll be into it for about 1/4 the cost of a 2015 TDI. So what if it revs about 500RPM higher at speed? I still think I'll be able to squeeze 47-48MPG out of it on a long trip. It would take a long time to make up the fuel savings! Like you, I just can't justify the costs... and it's a darn nice car, all things considered.
 
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d0u8l3m

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Jun 16, 2014
Location
Connecticut
TDI
B5.5 Passat
The "New-Q", right! Beautiful bridge. A new TDI would be great, but, the price is right for fixing up this Passat wagon. I've had Golf's and Jetta's, old and newer, and our first TDI was a 2006 Passat sedan... all the rest are TDI's and we even have an e-Golf (NICE car, for another discussion...) and while the convenience electronics on this Passat are crude by modern standards it still rides great, has gobs of interior room, is very comfortable... even with the spring kit... and with a new interior and paint job I'll be into it for about 1/4 the cost of a 2015 TDI. So what if it revs about 500RPM higher at speed? I still think I'll be able to squeeze 47-48MPG out of it on a long trip. It would take a long time to make up the fuel savings! Like you, I just can't justify the costs... and it's a darn nice car, all things considered.
So...if i bring a 6 pack can I come check out that e-golf :D:D

Seriously though, this generation of Volkswagens (mk4/b5) is still my favorite. The total cost ill be into my car is much less than a "new" 2015 and its not a boat like the new passats. I haven't really been in anything too new to really compare, but the kenwood radio I have + android auto on my phone is all I need in the car. Everything else is just a distraction or annoying IMO. I never have to touch or look at my phone either, just say "ok google play/open/reply etc..." and listen to the instructions.

Side note, are there any TDI shows or anything coming up in CT? Need to take a cruise once I swap mine to see how the MPG rating changes.
 

duteman2

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Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Stuff...

Lol! Sure, a 6-pack or a pitcher of Manhattans! The e-Golf is a killer car. Extremely well built, Mercedes quality, no lie. It's all hand built on one assembly line in Germany and you can tell. It is a leased car going back in August. It is a great car with limited range, only about 100 if you are frugal with the juice... But what's the fun in that!?! Truly this car is a rocket ship, torque out the wazoo, fun fun FUN to drive. All that battery weight down low makes it as solid as a rock, you can whip it around corners, big grins all 'round! The technology is improving so quickly... The next generation is reputed to get more than 200 miles on a charge... Worth waiting for. 300, now that would be something. They'll be coming off leases pretty soon and might be cheap at auction.

I agree about the new Passat, Americanized, American built. Just not the same. Bluetooth head units are available pretty cheap these days, I think a nice Alpine or Pioneer double-din unit could really up the game and make the car modern... Almost! It's low on my priority list right now. Have fun with the conversion!
 

duteman2

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Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
TDI
'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Project update!

OK, so I've lived with this car for a few months, commute 35 miles each way every day. So far, I have mostly positive things to say about the build. LOVE the engine work. The stage 2 tune is perfect. The car should have been shipped that way, IMHO. The heavier clutch is no problem for me, I used to be a VOLVO guy back in the 70's... those huge clutches were about the same feel, nothing too strenuous. I am learning to love the 5-speed, would like another gear... NO PROBLEM at all with Fran's parts, shifts are crisp and tight. I highly recommend his services, it's been a great experience. Superb quality on the parts. Mike McCann has been great. His work is first-rate and his prices fair. We did have a minor coolant leak after a few weeks driving that was the temp sensor and housing issue, I'm sure it was just time do do it, normal wear, and Mike took care of it. I might suggest that if anyone is doing a similar swap with an unknown service record on the project car's engine to just go ahead and change these parts out while the tranny is out.

NOW FOR THE NOT SO GREAT: I am LESS than happy with the suspension mods I made... but that's not the car's fault. I put some lowering, tighter H&R springs and red KONI's on it. I LOVE the way it rides and handles on the highway, on smooth roads... it's amazing. I can take typical ramps and merges pretty much flat-out if I wanted to, the suspension just sticks... handles flat, very nice. Get it on ANY bumpy urban surface and the car is almost un-drivable. I do think I'll be putting stock springs back on it.

UP NEXT-STILL TO DO: My next step is to have the Interior freshened and the body un-dinged and painted. I'm likely going to get through the winter before doing that. I also am going to up grade the Audio and Tech systems... I MIGHT do that before the paintwork!

Anyway, I hope this thread had inspired some folks to go ahead on with this project. These cars are really nice once you get that auto trans out of them!
 

imo000

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Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
Ae the replacemrnt springs stiffer than stock?
 

vwztips

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Aug 30, 2009
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Greenville, SC
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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
What size tires do you have? I have found 17's to be rough. 16's are a good compromise between ride and handling. 15's are best for ride.

I have H&R springs on mine that only lower it 1/2". Have Bilsteins HD's on front and the stock shocks on the back. It sits well and rides well for the most part. I have 17's on mine but it is not unbearable.
 

Windex

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Joined
Apr 1, 2006
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Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
I've got my wagon on Eibach 1" lowered springs on Koni FSDs. Definitely firmer than stock, and does get upset on really crappy/rutted pavement, but I would take my setup over the wishy-washy stock setup any day.
 

AllenAlic

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Oct 7, 2017
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Portage In
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05 Passat TDI Wagon
Fifth time reading this thread, inpatiently �� waiting for my trans from Frans, sending the Ecu to Malone next week and picking up a Vag Com. Can't wait to get the "Vee Dub" back on the road. Once I get mine done a buddy might be interested in picking one up on the cheap, ( a ton with bad transmissions on the web) set him up with a manual and a BSD. These cars are so great to work on, what a difference between this and a GM product.
 
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duteman2

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Nov 10, 2002
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Connecticut
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'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Update to the update!

Yes, I'm riding 17's. I have set of wheels/tires of 16" and 15", but think the lowered springs with 15"'s is just too low, but I'll put them on and try them again. I like the look of my 17" wheels though! Yes, the H&R's are stiffer than stock. I really do like the ride on good surfaces. Enough that I'm on the fence about switching them out, I might just accept that this is a hi-way-cruiser set up and leave it at that!
 

duteman2

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'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
...on the cheap...

Yeah, no doubt, these cars are available all over the place at blow-out prices. All the Auto-transmissions seem to have reached their useable life, all about the same time. "Dropping like flies". Had I been more patient I'm sure I could have held out for a car with a perfect interior, no dings... a garage queen, but, I got mine for a fair price so I'm living with it. It sure runs nice! The Malone Stage II is awesome. Pulls-Pulls-Pulls, smooth power all the way to redline without breaking a sweat. Can chirp the tires in second... easily. My Hi-Way MPG, at 70MPH, has been no better that 46, but I think if I really behaved myself, on a long road trip, I'd see an average close to 50. A taller gear would really be nice... I'm not sure the numbers work for a 6-speed though, is increases the cost of the conversion tremendously.
 
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duteman2

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Nov 10, 2002
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Connecticut
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'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
...another thought...

I did sell that V6 4Motion wagon to a guy who is going to have Mike McCann convert it. They are looking for "the right" parts car now. I had considered converting this car myself, it was in such nice condition. The biggest stumbling block in such a conversion is the electronics, and Mike confirmed that the '04's are OK in that department, essentially just making the connections, modifying where needed, no huge CANBUS issues. I think you would really need a full parts car though because all the under-the-hood bits would need to be swapped. That said, there seem to be a ton of really nice 4Motion V6 wagons out there, and many owners have had it, and freak out when they get a transmission rebuild estimate. Ripe for the pickin', I think...I'm still considering finding another car... I do want to finish this one first though.
 
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imo000

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Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
Yes, I'm riding 17's. I have set of wheels/tires of 16" and 15", but think the lowered springs with 15"'s is just too low, but I'll put them on and try them again. I like the look of my 17" wheels though! Yes, the H&R's are stiffer than stock. I really do like the ride on good surfaces. Enough that I'm on the fence about switching them out, I might just accept that this is a hi-way-cruiser set up and leave it at that!
If you increase the sidewall thickness of the 15s, it will not be too low.
 

Windex

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Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Meh, I'm on 17's lowered with stiffer shocks. The suspension on mine is perfectly livable.

15's are so old-school... :D
 

vwztips

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Aug 30, 2009
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Greenville, SC
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2005 Passat GLS Wagon TDI 5 spd manual w/BSM delete 2011 Tiguan TDI/DSG 2005 Audi A4 Avant 6MQ TDI 2011 BMW X5 35d
True, but I can easily pick up 2-3 MPG with 15's over 17's
 

duteman2

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Nov 10, 2002
Location
Connecticut
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'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
Well, I do love this car. Makes my ALH Jetta's seem tame. Stage II is awesome. Drives like a real car! The look on some people's faces when I move on out is hilarious! "TDI? Wow!" So I'm going to try with my 15's for a while, would love to get a few more MPG's, but I'm assuming when we're picking on 1 or 2 MPG that subtle differences, like rolling resistance air pressure and the like, might play as much a part.
 

imo000

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Location
Cambridge
TDI
2009 M-B ML320 Diesel & '05 Passat TDI Manual 5-Speed
Well, I do love this car. Makes my ALH Jetta's seem tame. Stage II is awesome. Drives like a real car! The look on some people's faces when I move on out is hilarious! "TDI? Wow!" So I'm going to try with my 15's for a while, would love to get a few more MPG's, but I'm assuming when we're picking on 1 or 2 MPG that subtle differences, like rolling resistance air pressure and the like, might play as much a part.
Since you are running a stage 2 tune, might as well pick up some spare boost hoses. You will need at least the one that comes out of the turbo.
 

duteman2

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Connecticut
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'02 GOLF, '04 Passat Wagon, 5-speed, BSD, our 8th. and 9th. TDI's
OK! thanks for the tip... have you had experiences with it (boost hose) blowing up/off?
 
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