NEW '05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

biotahoe

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
TDI
passat, 2005, silver
NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

I replaced the fuel filter to be on the safe side. Now it cold starts fine but doesn't want to re-start once warmed up. Wierd eh? Any thoughts? It will start but requires extended cranking.

Best

T
 

glyphon

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Location
A-T-L
TDI
2005 new Jetta TDi, Graphite Blue
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

not really sure, i'm extremely new to diesels, but VW only officially supports biodiesel upto B5. sorry i don't have any more info for you.
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

Like you said, you are new... It might be best to only respond when you have someting constructive to offer.

Comments like "VW only supports B5" come across as petty.

I have run B100 on both my 05 Passats now for almost 5 months without issue. Before that 40K miles on B100 on my 02 Jetta.

Sounds like a bad batch of fuel. Is it commercial? What brand?
 

maxforce

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Location
VA
TDI
04 Golf, 04 Jetta, 84 300SD
NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

We run b50 to b100 in an 03 and 04, never an issue starting. I would suggest filling with diesel and see if the problem goes away. If it doesn't go away take it back to the dealer. If it does go away you could have gotten some bad fuel. If you keep the problem you could have some sort of timing issue. If you take it to the wrong dealer with the b100 in it, it may "blind" them to any other problem.
 

JLH

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Location
Northern California
TDI
Jetta GLS Wagon 2004 blue

biotahoe

New member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
TDI
passat, 2005, silver
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

Hey JLH,

Very interested to learn more about your problem. You are the first one who has responded with the same experience.

Would you please elaborate? Thanks!
 

JLH

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Location
Northern California
TDI
Jetta GLS Wagon 2004 blue
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

See above - the second link is my original post on the issue from back in June.
Another poster, srichter59, who makes his own Bio had the same problem when he was not washing the fuel, so based on this I am assuming the fuel I was getting was not being washed during the manufacturing process.
I am in Sonoma Country Ca – the fuel that was giving me the start up issues was purchased at Pacific Pride in Santa Rosa.

I went up to Real Goods in Hopland to try the fuel they get from Yokayo - http://www.ybiofuels.org/index1.html - and it did not give me any start up issues at all, The last few weeks I have been buying D#2 since Hopland is a good hour drive each way.

A lot of people on this site recommend getting ASTM reports for the fuel you purchase
Read this post - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB44&Number=1039105
 

Sappington

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2003
Location
Manassas, VA
TDI
2017 Chevy Volt now -- sold '03 Jetta Wagon :-(
NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

We run b50 to b100 in an 03 and 04, never an issue starting.
Is there any significant difference between the '04 and '05, or is it safe to say if it works in an '04 it will work in an '05, and vice versa?
 

GotDiesel?

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 11, 2000
Location
Pacific NW
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

What works in an '04-'05 Jetta should work in an '05 Passat. They both have PD injection, but they are different engines.
 

turbokrash

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2004
Location
New England
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

*Comments like "VW only supports B5" come across as petty*

Why? He was just pointing out fact. (personally)I don't know WHY anyone would run bio(more than the recomended 5% blend)in a new PD still under warranty. Considering the possible expense of replacement injectors and misc fuel related components, its an expensive gamble. After your warranty runs out...have at it.
Running the car on anything other than the *factory recomended fuel* could affect your warranty.

In a pre 2004(non PD)car. The rotary pump cars are less affected by bio related issues(un washed/impure fuel, etc). However, PD cars are a bit *finiky* when it comes to fuel.
 

troyindiana

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

(personally)I don't know WHY anyone would run bio(more than the recomended 5% blend)in a new PD still under warranty. Considering the possible expense of replacement injectors and misc fuel related components, its an expensive gamble. After your warranty runs out...have at it. Running the car on anything other than the *factory recomended fuel* could affect your warranty.
I think there are legitimate reasons why someone (like myself) would willingly and happily run B100 when you can't imagine doing such a thing. Here's a partial list:

1. I can cook my own for ~50 cents/gallon and save a considerable wad of cash.

2. I'm very particular about the quality of my biodiesel, and I have reasons to believe that my engine will last longer on my homebrew than on stinky diesel.

3. Somehow, some of the money that we send over to Saudi Arabia ends up in the hands of terrorists. These people have openly stated that their goal is to brutally kill us and crush our U.S. economy along the way. I don't feel like supporting them while they cut the heads off innocent people and blow Londoners up.

4. I don't have any soot/grunge buildup problems, though I don't have a jillion miles on my car yet. How is yours?

5. My fuel is almost carbon neutral, so I'm directly helping to reduce or prevent the global warming that's screwing up our weather. Ask all the huricane victims if that's a meaningful gesture.

6. Stinky petro diesel is a known carcinogen, biodiesel is essentially non-toxic. You could actually drink moderate amounts of it without doing any permanent damage.

7. There are many PD's that have cumulatively racked up hundreds of thousands of miles on high quality B100. Perhaps millions, I don't know. Maybe it's ok.

8. In the not too distant future, we're going to run out of cheap oil and be forced to switch to alternatives. If we don't do that pro-actively, it could be a very bumpy ride that makes the Great Depression look like a walk in the park. Shouldn't we get started now?

9. Crap fuel, dino or bio, will hurt your car. Are you suggesting that there is no off-spec petro diesel out there? VW won't cover your repairs under warranty for bad stinky diesel will they? That's really not much different than a denied warranty due to bad biodiesel, is it? I think my risk of getting poor quality fuel is higher with petro diesel than my own quality controlled biodiesel.

10. My car doesn't stink the garage up every time I start up or back in. Petro diesel fumes are vastly more toxic than biodiesel fumes.

How's that?

Finest regards,

troy
 

turbokrash

Veteran Member
Joined
May 20, 2004
Location
New England
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

So other than your political stance, your using *homebrew* cause its cheap?

How many miles have you run with 100% homebrew? When you *cook* your fuel, aren't some of the chemicals used toxic? My point was/is, you've got a $25-27k automobile, why risk turning it into a large, expensive paper weight?

Warmest regards,

Mark
 

troyindiana

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

I'm a republican actually, but the majority of my points have nothing to do with politics or economics.


2. I'm very particular about the quality of my biodiesel, and I have reasons to believe that my engine will last longer on my homebrew than on stinky diesel.

I don't see how #2 is political or just cash related. It's a durability issue.

3. Somehow, some of the money that we send over to Saudi Arabia ends up in the hands of terrorists. These people have openly stated that their goal is to brutally kill us and crush our U.S. economy along the way. I don't feel like supporting them while they cut the heads off innocent people and blow Londoners up.

Would you say that opposing people who want to kill me and my family is more of a Republican stance or more of a Democratic stance? The fact that I don't want to fund people who blow up my friends seems apolitical to me. I do fully support President Bush and the military intervention in Iraq by the way. I want to defeat the terrorists by both economic and military means.


4. I don't have any soot/grunge buildup problems, though I don't have a jillion miles on my car yet. How is yours?


Point 4 is a documented maintenance issue. How is that political or just "cheap"?


5. My fuel is almost carbon neutral, so I'm directly helping to reduce or prevent the global warming that's screwing up our weather. Ask all the huricane victims if that's a meaningful gesture.

How is global warming and greenhouse gasses a political issue?

6. Stinky petro diesel is a known carcinogen, biodiesel is essentially non-toxic. You could actually drink moderate amounts of it without doing any permanent damage.

For point six, the fact that I don't want to expose myself of my family to a known carcinogen, how is that political?


8. In the not too distant future, we're going to run out of cheap oil and be forced to switch to alternatives. If we don't do that pro-actively, it could be a very bumpy ride that makes the Great Depression look like a walk in the park. Shouldn't we get started now?

For point 8, are you aware that Matt Simons, the energy advisor to President Bush, has been a vocal advocate for peak oil issues. And so has former VP Al Gore. If they both feel this is a real issue, I don't see how that's political. Remind me.

9. Crap fuel, dino or bio, will hurt your car. Are you suggesting that there is no off-spec petro diesel out there? VW won't cover your repairs under warranty for bad stinky diesel will they? That's really not much different than a denied warranty due to bad biodiesel, is it? I think my risk of getting poor quality fuel is higher with petro diesel than my own quality controlled biodiesel.

For point 9, are you implying that the dealer WILL perform warranty work if I use off spec petro diesel and have problems?

10. My car doesn't stink the garage up every time I start up or back in. Petro diesel fumes are vastly more toxic than biodiesel fumes.

On point 10, the stinkiness of my garage seems neither political, nor motivated by monetary issues. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't like stinky toxic diesel fumes in my garage.

Yes, when you make biodiesel, you work with toxic chemicals. Namely methanol and lye. You handle methanol every time you add washer fluid to your car. And lye is crystal drano. Both must be handled appropriately, but nothing exotic, difficult or insurmountable. Basically, rubber gloves, a closed processor and good ventilation.

I have 12,000 miles on homebrew, since it was new essentially. I have friends that have over 50,000 trouble free miles.

Finest regards,

troy
 

srichter59

Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
TDI
golf '04 silvre
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

I had a similar post a couple mos. ago, my '04 golf was hard to start when warm, ever since then I've washed my fuel that I make and no more starting problems, (cold or warm) ever, no performance problems either. I think it was remaining methanol in the fuel acting like vapor lock on a gas carburator when warm. I'd check fuel quality and see if it is washed. Good luck, I bought an '05 passat yesterday so now I'll make fuel for 2 cars, both w/ PD. My Golf has 20K mis on B100 (41K total on odometer) so far so good, Hopefully the '05 will be good too.,
 

DrStink

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Location
Providence RI
TDI
2003 Jetta GL - Platinum Grey
Re: NEW \'05 Passat, Hard to start on B100

How many miles have you run with 100% homebrew? When you *cook* your fuel, aren't some of the chemicals used toxic? My point was/is, you've got a $25-27k automobile, why risk turning it into a large, expensive paper weight?
Hey Mark.

If we promise not to turn it into a paperweight, can you bring a new Mk5 Jetta TDI to our GTG on Sept 25th?

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1072333&an=0&page=0#1072333

As far as actually making BD, the chemistry is no trickier that making soap; if little old ladies can do that safely, I'm not too worried.


As far the the toxicity of the methanol and NaOH, that doesn't phase me either - gasoline and petrodiesel ain't exactly easy on the human body either.

But for what it is worth, Bill hasn't put a single drop of BD, homebrew or otherwise in the Passat you sold him. He was excited to hear VWoA had approved B5, but no one near him sells it.

Bigger picture however, I think we're all just pissing in the sandbox here. Can a PD run fine on neat homebrew or ASTM BD? Sure. Is it the conservative choice? No. Thus you have 3 options: a) use ASTM B5 only b) use B100 (ASTM or homebrew) and acccept the responsibility for any damage like a man, or c) wait until your warrantee is up, since it's moot at that point.

DrS
 

silver06jet

New member
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
06 Jetta hard starting hot on B100

It sounds like others out there are having the same problems I have been having running my own home brew biodiesel. I have run a few tanks of 100% biodiesel through our 06 jetta with the same results it's hard to start when it is hot and it sits for alittle after shut down. It takes a bit of cranking to get it running and then it runs rough until you rev it up a bit. I have not been washing the last few batches but I did run the car on some that had been washed with the same results. When I switch back to regular pump diesel the problems go away so the car appears to be in good working order. I also have a 01 dodge ram and a 82 audi 4000 with no problems with the unwashed biodiesel. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would appreciate any thoughts you have.

Thanks
 

vwgtivw

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Cleveland,Ohio
TDI
jetta,2001,silver
turbokrash said:
*Comments like "VW only supports B5" come across as petty*

Why? He was just pointing out fact. (personally)I don't know WHY anyone would run bio(more than the recomended 5% blend)in a new PD still under warranty. Considering the possible expense of replacement injectors and misc fuel related components, its an expensive gamble. After your warranty runs out...have at it.
Running the car on anything other than the *factory recomended fuel* could affect your warranty.

In a pre 2004(non PD)car. The rotary pump cars are less affected by bio related issues(un washed/impure fuel, etc). However, PD cars are a bit *finiky* when it comes to fuel.
I agree, and by the way troyindiana the US only gets about 15-20% of are oil from the middle east.
 
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BeetleGo

TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 21, 1998
Location
Cambridge, MA
TDI
5-door, 5-speed Golf GLS replaced BeetleGo.
Having seen way more than my share of these types of threads degenerate into a debate over whether using more than B05 is even appropriate (because 'VW doesn't warranty it') ignores the fact that the question is about using B100, not B05. That's why it comes off as petty. If you do not want to contribute to the discussion at hand, open ya own xxxx thread and debate your guts out - but I can assure you, it's been said before.

Anyone who takes this approach to "helping" other club members simply has not read enough to know that there has been a demonstrated, exhaustively documented effort to isolate actual issues caused by PROPERLY made biodiesel on this site for about 4 years now. All too often, biodiesel in general gets blamed when someone encounters a tank of poor quality fuel that happens to be biodiesel. To this, I would humbly encourage people to be more careful to verify what they are buying to begin with, because funny thing - the people who do DON'T have issues!

If you have an issue that you think is related to your biodiesel use, the first things that should be communicated to people who might try to help you on this board should be to identify what kind of biodiesel you are using, whether it is ASTM spec commercial fuel, or something else.

* Who is the distributor of this fuel?
* Have you used it without issue before?
* How long have you been using it?
* Have you spoken with the dealer?
* Have other customers reported an issue?
* Do they support their product?


These are all baseline questions that need to be asked and answered UP FRONT to even begin to help you intelligently, without resorting to idling guessing at the cause, or petty tut-tutting.

I hope this lends focus to your problem.

~BeetleGo
 
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