bye bye TDI hello Cruze TD

jettad · Oct 24, 2017

After much thought I turned in my Jetta. I got 19,936.73 from VW and 350.00 from Bosch, total 20,286.73. In 2012 I paid 24,389.00.
After shopping around I got a new 2017 Chevy Cruze TD. It listed for 29,655.00 and I paid 23,500.00 out the door price. So I paid less for the Cruze than I did for the Jetta in 2012. After 70,235 miles on the Jetta i averaged 46 mpg. With the cruze with less than 2000 miles on the engine I am averaging over 52 mpg. The Cruze is very well equipped, sunroof, power seats, backup camera, pushbutton stop start, 1.6L 16 valve DOHC. variable pitch turbo, ceramic glow plugs, 9speed auto transmission and more. The engine is very responsive, quiet and smooth. Anyone contemplating the switch, have no fear, after only a little more than a month driving the Cruze TD I am very happy with it. A lot more car than I expected.

jerrymander · Oct 24, 2017

Come back after your Cruze has 70,000 miles. Any car is great a month later, even the ill-fated PT Cruiser.

Ol'Rattler · Oct 24, 2017

jerrymander said:
Come back after your Cruze has 70,000 miles. Any car is great a month later, even the ill-fated PT Cruiser.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

But still it's a Piece OF Chevy. Our Chevy Cavalier painfully showed us the down side of owning a truly mediocre cheap Chevy. The real downside is with the Diesel option and all the other worthless options they hung on it, the Cruze Diesel isn't a cheap car at all, just a mediocre car.

Because of Dieselgate and all the Rube Goldburg emissions control devices that the EPA has forced onto the modern Diesel I think I see a Toyota gasser in my future when my 2006 TDI finally passes on............

Almost forgot. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...diesel-actually-takes-18-years-to-break-even/ Not a resent article but is generally correct.

oilhammer · Oct 25, 2017

Oh, but it has a variable pitch turbo and ceramic glow plugs!

LMAO.... yes, they all do... even my 13 year old Passat TDI. I cannot help but think that the salesman did a good job on that one.

It is a new car, please let us know how it is after a REAL test of time. It looks promising, but sadly it seems most GM products' curb appeal is quickly tarnished after a relatively short period of time (at least, in my mind).

The Cruze is a bit of a global venture, though. Not much "domestic" GM in it. Well to be fair, except for trucks and vans, there is not a lot of domestic GM in any of their products. So it could be a decent car. Or it could be a turd. At least they are selling [slowly] them here. Kudos to GM for that.

rallywagon · Oct 25, 2017

Jettad,

I truly am glad for your report about the Cruze. Sound promising. And, I wish you low maintenance costs. That is great fuel mileage so far, and it will likely go up slightly with break-in.

Will you be driving mostly city or highway miles?

Please keep us posted as the miles go up.

Scott

jettad · Oct 25, 2017

long time diesel enthusiast

Sorry to see negative post on the Cruze diesel. I have been driving diesel cars and trucks for over 30 years. Some good some bad. I worked for Mack trucks for 40 years and saw first hand the advantages of diesel engines. We have many engines on record logging more than a million miles. I am retired and don't have the disposable income to purchase a Mercedes or BMW diesel. The only alternative other than a reworked VW was a somewhat new 2nd generation Chevy Cruze TD. I agree the jury is still out on this engine but to me it seemed like it has been greatly improved over the first gen engines. It is built in Hungary and is an Opel engine, widely in use in Europe. I agree it is too new to draw any conclusions about maintenance other than It uses off the shelf lubricants for engine and transmission instead of $10 a quart engine oil and $26 a quart trans fluid. I have read where many TDI owners who had the modifications done were not happy with the results so as the old saying goes ( fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame one me) Keeping you posted

ezshift5 · Oct 25, 2017

jettad said:
Sorry to see negative post on the Cruze diesel. /QUOTE]

Appreciate your post Jetta D -

I checked out the Cruze diesel - the first one.........and I recall noise plus transmission questions........did they have the manual shift available early on?

Your averaging 52 MPG is impressive. I reckon you travel mostly highway.

Thanks again for your informative info. VW - MHO - and Bosch really stepped up to the plate. With big motivation from the US court system.

I've no complaints (so another VW now lurks in my garage).

all the best,

ez

oilhammer · Oct 25, 2017

jettad said:
Sorry to see negative post on the Cruze diesel. I have been driving diesel cars and trucks for over 30 years. Some good some bad. I worked for Mack trucks for 40 years and saw first hand the advantages of diesel engines. We have many engines on record logging more than a million miles. I am retired and don't have the disposable income to purchase a Mercedes or BMW diesel. The only alternative other than a reworked VW was a somewhat new 2nd generation Chevy Cruze TD. I agree the jury is still out on this engine but to me it seemed like it has been greatly improved over the first gen engines. It is built in Hungary and is an Opel engine, widely in use in Europe. I agree it is too new to draw any conclusions about maintenance other than It uses off the shelf lubricants for engine and transmission instead of $10 a quart engine oil and $26 a quart trans fluid. I have read where many TDI owners who had the modifications done were not happy with the results so as the old saying goes ( fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame one me) Keeping you posted

Not sure where you were buying your fluids, but they do not cost nearly that much. Plus, the Volkswagen has a 10k mile [fixed] service interval. The Cruze has a 7500 mile [fixed] service interval, and the Cruze holds more oil. So that is probably a wash. The 507.00 compliant 5w30 synthetic oil we use here is about 75 cents a liter more than the Dexos2 compliant 5w30 oil your Cruze uses. Dex 6 ATF is cheaper, but not drastically so, over the FFL Pentosin DSG fluid. GM generally has no service interval for ATF, but they usually just assume it gets replaced when the transmission dies. Although it is obviously premature to say how well the new transmission holds up. The previous Cruze diesel used a more-or-less off the shelf Aisin slushbox. Which aside from random valve body whackiness, are generally pretty good units (certainly better than any in-house Hydramatic units).

I am not knocking the Cruze, I am knocking what I feel is your unbased conviction that it is somehow a superior car. Cheaper? Yes. It should be. The Cruze is a fairly lowly model on the GM hierarchy. You just bought one with a very expensive engine.

IndigoBlueWagon · Oct 25, 2017

I drove a '17 Cruze diesel with a manual transmission and was impressed. Shifter and clutch were very smooth, at least as good as my '15 GSW. However, I agree with other posters here that we don't know what these cars will be like in a few years, or what maintenance and repair costs will be like.

I had to drive most of the way across MA to find a manual Cruze to drive. When I returned to the dealer from the test drive the salesman asked if I was trading in my '02 Wagon. I laughed, because I think if he'd taken a look at the odometer (356K now) I doubt he'd want it. And I wonder what the Cruze would drive like at 15 years old with 350K on it. Or even at half that age or mileage, for that matter.

nokivasara · Oct 25, 2017

jettad said:
Sorry to see negative post on the Cruze diesel. I have been driving diesel cars and trucks for over 30 years. Some good some bad. I worked for Mack trucks for 40 years and saw first hand the advantages of diesel engines. We have many engines on record logging more than a million miles. I am retired and don't have the disposable income to purchase a Mercedes or BMW diesel. The only alternative other than a reworked VW was a somewhat new 2nd generation Chevy Cruze TD. I agree the jury is still out on this engine but to me it seemed like it has been greatly improved over the first gen engines. It is built in Hungary and is an Opel engine, widely in use in Europe. I agree it is too new to draw any conclusions about maintenance other than It uses off the shelf lubricants for engine and transmission instead of $10 a quart engine oil and $26 a quart trans fluid. I have read where many TDI owners who had the modifications done were not happy with the results so as the old saying goes ( fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame one me) Keeping you posted

Oh It's a Opel engine? Opel was bought by PSA-group recently, I wonder if it could even be a PSA Hdi engine in it?
Maybe it shares more than just the engine with Opel?
It's hard to keep track of the mix/match of parts across different manufacturers nowadays...
I don't think we get the Cruze here anymore, they probably sold too few of them. I don't even know who sells Chevrolet over here, maybe a Opel dealer?
Anyway, I actually liked the looks of the first generation Cruze (I guess they have a new gen by now) but haven't really looked closely at one.

I hope you'll get many good years with your new car, I'm glad you chose a diesel

gearheadgrrrl · Oct 25, 2017

But for a new '15 TDI, I'd be in a Cruze...

Had I not lucked upon a new Golf TDI for $19K I'd be price shopping for a new diesel Cruze now. And the Cruze (un)reliability reputation is somewhat undeserved- The Cruze and previous little Chevies were often kid's first new car, and it showed. I've seen truck drivers with long commutes get 200,000+ miles with no major repairs on the Cavaliers, etc.!

Ol'Rattler · Oct 25, 2017

Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw. On our Cav the R/F strut was completely out of oil by 25K miles. It would have been O.K. except the warranty was only 12.5K miles.

Can't forget the amazing cooling system. from about 30 k miles or so, it would use coolant. Replaced the radiator, heater core water pump all of which were leaking. I was at the Chevy dealers and the parts guy turned me on to these stop leak pellets that he said they put in all of the new cars. https://www.ebay.com/i/282462477975?chn=ps&dispItem=1

They did actually work though. Why bother to make a leak free cooling system when you can just stop leak the engine? Just amazing................

To be fair, it is a world car so not much of the engineering is General Motors, but with Lordstown converting to SUV's, how long will it be before we will be getting the assembled in China cars?

IndigoBlueWagon · Oct 25, 2017

Here you go:

Buick Envision. Assembled in China.

turbobrick240 · Oct 25, 2017

nokivasara said:
Oh It's a Opel engine? Opel was bought by PSA-group recently, I wonder if it could even be a PSA Hdi engine in it?
Maybe it shares more than just the engine with Opel?

I believe the hatchback is basically an Opel Astra with some minor cosmetic differences.

Jetta SS · Oct 27, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
I had to drive most of the way across MA to find a manual Cruze to drive. When I returned to the dealer from the test drive the salesman asked if I was trading in my '02 Wagon. I laughed, because I think if he'd taken a look at the odometer (356K now) I doubt he'd want it. And I wonder what the Cruze would drive like at 15 years old with 350K on it. Or even at half that age or mileage, for that matter.

Back when I bought my 14 tdi, they offered me $1000 for my '98 with 400k on the odo. Salesman said he would do it as a courtesy. Which was descent of him, but I passed.

MichaelB · Oct 27, 2017

I laughed said:
15 years later and with all the maintenance repairs you have made to IBW it might be just as good. Don't speak like you bought your car new and didn't do these things and if the cruse was bought new and you did the same maint it would be a pile of junk. You do not know

Ol'Rattler · Oct 28, 2017

Huh? Actually, a Chevy is a pile of junk when it's new, it just hasn't broke down yet. Ask the man that's owned one.

I understand his point about the high mileage thing. I traded an A3 Jetta gasser with only 86K miles and the dealer ended up wholesaling it because potential buyer must have been use to Chevy's and thought that was extremely high miles.

IndigoBlueWagon · Oct 28, 2017

MichaelB said:
15 years later and with all the maintenance repairs you have made to IBW it might be just as good. Don't speak like you bought your car new and didn't do these things and if the cruse was bought new and you did the same maint it would be a pile of junk. You do not know

That's why I wrote "and I wonder". I did buy IBW new, and I've done a lot to it over the years, no doubt. I said the other day that it was the car that won't die, and a co-worker said "you won't let it die." True enough. But even with the maintenance and repairs I've done over the years, I think it's fair to say the durability and reliability of that MKIV ALH is legendary. My son's '02 Golf has had only routine maintenance and repairs, has 345K on it, and is doing fine. Not sure you can say that about many other cars, even a Chevrolet.

Gemrod · Nov 1, 2017

I sorta think I should not make this post. But....$20,000 for a car to get good mpg?
I have a '98 super beetle 5spd stick 1.9 getting me 50 mpg in town. Power windows, power mirrors, power door locks and alarm system. AM FM radio with audio cassette player, and a 6cd factory installed cd changer in the trunk. Cruise control works sooooo good. I guess I will jinx it and say I love it to death. Will probably never ever part with it. I am out $3,400 for this car and it has 144,000 miles on it. Back in the early '90's I had rabbit hatchback, 2 jettas, a rabbit pick up....etc. Never paid over $2,500 for one of them. I got 47 mpg out of them and the insurance was cheap...plates cheap...and the air conditioner would freeze you out...in the Phoenix valley. I figured if one got totalled I would just shop for and buy another one. I just think the volkswagons are awesome vehicles.

Steve-o · Nov 4, 2017

Gemrod said:
I sorta think I should not make this post. But....$20,000 for a car to get good mpg?

Good mileage and modern features and current car-control/safety systems and a warranty and a car that can be serviced in the outer suburbs of Frostbite Falls. Two more doors and (likely) more room in the back seat and a newer infotainment system, too, if we want to get to some lesser attributes.

The average ticket for a new car in 2017 is north of $30K. The Cruze probably has more high-mpg competition than your 98 Beetle did back in the day, so it's possible somewhat similar mpg could be available new for less money from another manufacturer. People in this thread also have hashed out whether it makes sense to spend that much on a Cruze, though I think you can debate that in terms of other small diesel sedans out there (*crickets*) and that didn't stop people from buying more recent high-line Golf and Jetta models that hid the cost of the TDI option.

20-year-old cars bring issues that not everyone is able to or cares to address. Buying one saves some money up front but there will be expenses that don't exist for a new car. We pays our moneys, we takes our choice...

jason0423 · Nov 5, 2017

I wanted one of these when I got my gsw. Dealership I work at wouldn’t order me one, because “they don’t sell”, even after I told them I wanted it ordered for me. Made the decision easier for me, although the 0% didn’t hurt.
Four months into ownership, I’m happy with the gsw. My 36k bumper to bumper is half over, and I’ve had precisely zero issues to note. Not bad for a car that sat for two years.

gmcjetpilot · Nov 10, 2017

The Curze D is a car, not a religion. No need to be emotional, bash or laud it. It's a car, and by all accounts a nice diesel. I rented a gas Cruze for a month, put the better part of 2K miles on it. Things I like, style, comfortable. Things I disliked handling, scary when pushed hard, and the sheet metal was very thin (to save weight/cost?) in places.

I had a 10 yr old 69' Camaro in high school, and later another very nice '68 Camaro. USA iron is back and competitive. The new Camaro and Mustangs are desirable cars, as are all the popular trucks. After 25 years of Japan made cars (Subaru, Acura) I went with VW about 5 years ago. I do like the German design, torque and utility of my 2010 JSW TDI. I don't like the lack of reliability. After 25 years of almost no issue Japanese cars the VW became a hobby, not just transportation. In a way I like it, like the Camaro I could work on it. The VW, I HAVE TO WORK ON IT... or go broke paying someone to work on it. It is fun to learn new things.

Well I am back to a Japanese car, kind of. I still have my VW TDI and plan on keeping it, but have until Sept 2018 to decide. I just bought a nice clean low mile Nissan LEAF SV. Love this thing. It is very quick off the line (tons of torque like the VW). It has way more Tech than the VW, good usable Tech. Of course has the japan design aesthetics and sensibility. Not bad just different. More plush than the VW, it handles great (with all the weight in the floor), but the steering feel is over boosted and lacks feel and feedback. Again it just a car, but it gets 100 miles per gallon (or 100 miles per 24 Kwh). It takes me about 4 to 4.5 hours to charge it with my LEVEL 2 cable.

I looked at a Tesla, used too expensive still. One salvage titled Tesla seemed like a great deal. However Tesla will not touch a salvage or rebuilt, you and your car are persona non grata, zero support of any kind. Telsa's I found are totaled for very little because Tesla does not want them to be fixed. Tesla is a total control think like Apple. There are no dealers, it is direct with Tesla only. They don't have dealers all over, but have mobile repair to come to you, OR they drive a flat bed out and pick it up, after dropping off a loaner. I am sure this is fine under warranty. Outside of warranty can you imagine what that cost. The Nissan LEAF is supported by a well established company and dealer network, and it is made in USA, Tennessee to be precise.

rocketeer928 · Nov 22, 2017

Seems much too expensive for a compact Chevy. Besides, I would never hear the end of it from my Ford-loving father.

El Dobro · Nov 25, 2017

Going on 44,000 trouble free miles with the Chevy Volt, which is something I couldn't say about the last two VWs I owned. I had to measure trouble free in feet with them. As for the VW dealers, the absolute worst I've had to deal with. If I bought another diesel, I'd go with a Chevy.

akjdouglass · Nov 25, 2017

El Dobro said:
Going on 44,000 trouble free miles with the Chevy Volt, which is something I couldn't say about the last two VWs I owned. I had to measure trouble free in feet with them. As for the VW dealers, the absolute worst I've had to deal with. If I bought another diesel, I'd go with a Chevy.

I'm going on 135,000 trouble-free miles with VW... still nothing to brag about.
Check back when you have 244,000 trouble-free miles on the Volt or a Chevy diesel.
My brother's Chevy is in the shop with major engine problems with under 40k miles.

El Dobro · Nov 25, 2017

akjdouglass said:
I'm going on 135,000 trouble-free miles with VW... still nothing to brag about.
Check back when you have 244,000 trouble-free miles on the Volt or a Chevy diesel.
My brother's Chevy is in the shop with major engine problems with under 40k miles.

Went through three MUs on my 2009 TDI and that was only part of it. The 2006 was wiping out the camshaft and that was only part of the problems with that one. Oh, and both were in the 40,000mi. range when I had enough of them.

Steve-o · Dec 2, 2017

Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, but, really, so what? What difference does it make if anyone else likes or doesn't like the Cruze diesel? It's not like a person could buy a 2017 diesel VW if they wanted to. Or like no one on this board has ever complained about how complex VW TDIs have become.

What's next? Pictures of Calvin wearing a VW T-shirt and peeing on a Chevy logo? People can buy what they want and live with the consequences. Nothing personal.

El Dobro · Dec 2, 2017

Steve-o said:
Maybe I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning, but, really, so what? What difference does it make if anyone else likes or doesn't like the Cruze diesel? It's not like a person could buy a 2017 diesel VW if they wanted to. Or like no one on this board has ever complained about how complex VW TDIs have become.

What's next? Pictures of Calvin wearing a VW T-shirt and peeing on a Chevy logo? People can buy what they want and live with the consequences. Nothing personal.

Pretty much. If you still want a new diesel, be glad that someone's still offering them.

bye bye TDI hello Cruze TD

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