06 BRM headache

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
I wanted to say thank you for any help in advance.

I have a 2006 Jetta sedan with a newly gone through BRM motor that runs better then I could've hoped for but I'm having issues with the Injector implausible signals. Motor cranks almost instantly and will idle forever (hours and hours) without any issues. Soon as you take it out onto the road it will do fine sometimes for a minute or two then kick over into Limp mode I'm assuming. Sometimes it will not even make it to the roadway. I've had all my injectors tested by the local bocsh injector shop and they're all good according to them. Problem is I have a implausible signal on #1 an #3 injector After I got them back; I swapped spots with them and I still have the same fault codes which eliminated the bad injector theory because the issue didn't follow the injectors. I'm open to any suggestions because I'm going mad, I need my car back bad>>>>

Here's a list of the things I've gone through thus far:

Engine has new everything, rings, bearing timing stuff etc
Injectors certified ( VCDS shows good numbers on block 13)
All grounds in engine bay cleaned and serviced
New fuel filter
Ohm'd out internal harness and it checked good
New Turbo ( working in VCDS with pressures consistent to one another)
EGR deleted

Thanks again for any help
 

JETaah

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 18, 2001
Location
mi 48836
TDI
96 B4V, 1999.5 jettaIV,2005 BEW Beetle
Check the state of the wiring harness where it crosses the starter/transmission area under the air box.
Pull the sheath and tape off and really look for worn insulation.
 

James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
Just to be sure your saying you swap injectors 2 and 4 with 1 and 3 and you got implausible single to 1 and 3 as before?

Did you check the code caused problems on the VCDS vendors web site. What is the code.

Just helping to verify some of the basics and bump this thread.
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Thanks Jetaah and I'll do that soon as I get an off my long shift rotation to see if I can find the issue there. I did pull the battery tray out and clean and inspect the ground there because of all the talk about them causing issues. I'm no expert by any means but it just seems odd it'll run without issue for hours but then soon as you need to give it fuel to go there it is or shortly thereafter. Guess it could totally be the shifting of the trans / wire loom and a bad spot causing the implausible signal. Heck at this point I'll but a completely new one if needed. My crew cab diesel is killing me on fuel expenses.

James & Son I did move the injectors 1 & 3 to the 2 & 4 cylinder and vise versus to see if the issue followed my injectors but it didn't so I ruled them out at this point.

Thanks again for the help
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Check the state of the wiring harness where it crosses the starter/transmission area under the air box.
Pull the sheath and tape off and really look for worn insulation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^:cool:
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Further testing results

Ok sorry it's taken me so long but I had to work a long stretch to say the least.
So this morning I completely went through the wiring from the plug back to the firewall and slightly on the other side. I didn't find any insulation that concerned me. I taped it all back up and doubled up on the high wear locations as well.
So I cleaned the connection plug really well and made sure the prongs were in the best shape possible by hitting them a lick with a contact file. I also tested the harness to the inside injectors for continuity again and I got .7 all the way around except for the one pin where I only got .4 between it an all others. That pin is the one closest to the middle. Sorry i don't know pin layout but comparing the numbers I got seems like my harness isn't the issue. I let the car idle for 5 straight hours and I never got the Implausible signal on 1 & 3 injector. I did however get the signal fault when I raised the RPM level up past 2300. Anything below it and it never faulted out and anything higher and it faults out.
So with this knowledge, it leads me to believe I have some type of fuel problem on the supply side. I just changed the fuel filter after the rebuild so it should be fine but I'll pick another one up and change it anyway. I raised the back seat up and cycled the key an sure enough you can hear the pump come on and the fuel movement in the tank.
This leads me to one conclusion; it's the tandem pump but heck I'm by no means a TDI mechanic other then what I've done on my car. I've also watched the variations on my VCDS and they never jump around or do anything funny (block13). :confused:
I'd greatly appreciate any help I can get from you guys because my wife gonna shoot me if I don't stop spending my off time working on this car.
Thank you very much in advance.
Faults:
PD Unit injector: cylinder 1 (N240)
P1260 -ooo-Implausible signal RPM's were 2394 when it faulted
PD unit injector: cylinder 3 (N242)
P1266-000-implausible signal RPM's were 2304 when it faulted
I also have a EGR and flapper valve fault but they've been removed from the car for the time being.
 

narongc73

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
VA/OH
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
To relieve said headache:

1) go to your nearest honda dealer
2) trade your jetta in for a reliable honda
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
To relieve said headache:
1) go to your nearest honda dealer
2) trade your jetta in for a reliable honda
I can walk from Seattle to Pittsburgh in 822 hours, so what is your point?

I don't think the OP posted for advice about life style choices, he posted for advice on a specific car, as in his. So, back under the bridge with Ya now. :D
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Yea the Hondas out for me.

It's just a headache at this point.

Anybody know how to check the tandem pump before I have to spend another chunk of change on this now hole in my shop that has no bottom. :eek:
 

jjblbi

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2000
Location
lbi, nj
TDI
2014 Passat SEL TDI
I see you mentioned going through the wiring. Did you remove the battery and battery box and inspect the wiring harness near the frame rail? It has been a while since my issues and I do remember the harness takes a very sharp turn there and may also see a lot of vibration. Mine was chafed pretty well and a couple of inner wires had melted together. Good luck, John
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Thanks John n yes I pulled the entire harness out n unwrapped it then inspected each wire individually. Wish that was it but sadly they all looked good. I know vibration isn't making it happen now cause I've tried lots of things n really pretty sure it's fuel related somehow. Just always on 1&3
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
I have another question for the TDI guru's.


Anyone think that when the head was rebuilt, the rebuild shop possibly didn't re-install the fuel distribution tube and this is why I'm getting the implausible signal on 1 & 3 injector?

I'm going to pull the tandem pump off next week when I have a off day to see if this may be the case because I've studied this motor hard for weeks now and this seems to be a valid possibility at this point after checking the systems out like I have done.

Thanks in advance for the help
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Ok well after talking with a greatly knowledgeable Tdi guy in my book (Frank06) I did some more research an these are my findings.

I doubled checked wiring harness by continuity, an single wire inspection and wiggle test.

I double checked head wiring an it reads good.

I have .05 ohms per injector

Ecu puts 2.48 vdc constant to injectors

Ecu fires injectors best I can tell with my fluke meter

So ecu, complete wiring harness an injectors test good every way I can test them

I’m still getting an implausible signal on 1&3 injector even tho I moved them to different spots an the faults stayed in the same spot which this eliminated the injectors themselves as the issue

Now fuel supply checks:

I checked my lift pump. 15 psi at key on

Through new fuel filter an still 15 psi to tandem pump

Tandem pump has over 51 psi at idle using test port

Tandem pump has well over 100 psi at 2000rpm

Tandem pump return line key on shows no flow at all

ONLY ISSUE that doesn’t check out is my tandem pump flow. I only got at idle about 3/4 of a liter per minute an the Bentley says I should have 1.3-1.5 liters per minute


The QUESTION I have is could this cause the faults I’m getting when I get above 2200 rpm which kicks me into limp mode every time with the implausible signal on 1&3 injector?

It’s the only thing I have left that could possibly be the issue outside the ecu puking on me above 2200rpm.

I’m lost guys an need help. Any suggestions will be gladly taken and checked.

Thank you all an thank you Frank.


ALSO if anyone knows how to bypass limp mode for these injectors I’ll pay them to do it!!!! I need my car!!!
 
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James & Son

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Location
Maryhill, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta
Ok , I am going to give you a possible by pass. Disconnect the cam sensor. That will force the car to run off the crank position sensor. I am throwing darts here but it might make a difference. If that doesn't make any difference then disconnect the crank sensor and run off the cam sensor.

I say it has to do with these two sensors. We know the injectors are not the problem and the wiring and yet it still comes up with 1 and 3. Maybe the sensors are not picking 1 and 3 up and causing the fault.

google VW_TDI_with_PumpeDuse
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Well after getting called in to work my off days I’m still patiently waiting on a chance to try the work around possibly. I’ll get my finding posted soon but it’ll probably be Friday since I work nights till Friday morning.
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Ok so unhooking the cam sensor didn’t work but while I was watching these blocks I noticed the issue between 1 & 3 injectors. If anyone knows what could be causing this issue please let me know. Thank you again James n Son

Ok so the picture uploads aren't working for me but I'm still working on it. Sorry
 
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Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
well since I can’t get a pic on here I’ll explain

Block 13 group sets look great until it drops to limp mode.

Boost is only about 30-40 mg off from requested to actual so that seems good an the graph looks good but could use a small tweak if I get the limp mode gone

Turbo boost test starts at 989 n boost to 1150ish +/- @ 1400rpm during the test.

Block 23:

Switch time deviation for 1 & 3 injectors got up to 120-128 when I get up to around 2250 rpms am stays there. All the while injectors 2-4 run up but never go higher then -60 -70 +/-. The limp mode kicks in about the time I get to the 120 mark on 1 & 3 injectors switch deviation


I also ran clear lines from the fuel pumps just to see an they didn’t have not a single air bubble.

With the info I currently have I’m seriously leaning toward the ECU being my issue at this point. Anyone else think that could be the issue? Thanks again for everyone’s time
 
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Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Good morning James & Son. I checked all the rocker assembly when I swapped the injectors to a different location but I’ll double check them again later today when I pull the 1 & 3 injectors out to inspect the head again. Frank06 talked with me about the scoring of the bore an I remember seeing what I thought was tool chatter on bottom on the injector bore but not positive so I’m tearing into it just to see if the head rebuilder messed up possibly. I’ll go over the rocker assembly with a fine tooth comb just to be sure. I’ll post back my findings. After today I’m on 12-14hr shifts for the next two weeks so..... my frustration will slow down some for awhile. I’ll probably be buying another ecu (same number) soon tho since they’re not to terrible expensive.

I appreciate all the help an if we get this thing figured out I’ll owe everyone huge!! And my wife will love me not living in the shop every free minute I’ve got. Lol
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
So I just wanted to update the post with a no news status. I still haven't found one thing wrong with the injector issues/limp mode.

I did however find a issue that may be the sole issue to start with if anyone wants to give a shot at the cause.

My new battery died so I charged it back up and when I went to connect it this morning after the rain left, I got a big spark thus showing I have a current draw. I double checked all the lights etc an couldn't find the cause of this current draw. Does anyone know if VCDS has a way to single out whats pulling juice when everything's off?

I want to pull the ECU back out / unplug it then see if my current draw goes away which may indicate that it's the main issue all along but then again I'm almost blind of issues with the car at this point due to my complete waste of all my free time on it. Wife's gotten real unhappy at this point.


MY WIFE says sell it and I really been thinking about it if someone wants a new motor an tires with about 7k miles on em.

I don't know what to do with the thing at this point because I'm just beyond frustrated....
 

Ol'Rattler

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Location
PNA
TDI
2006 BRM Jetta
Do not expect your wife to have a solution that involves rational thinking. You said a new motor. Did this motor always have the problem you are referring to?
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
On the engine ECU harness, there have been incidents of harness chafe further up the harness in the area of the clamps that hold the harness to the block.
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
Am I correct in understanding that:
- The engine will idle for long periods with no codes or issues?
- When driven, may run OK for a few minutes or might not even make it to the road before throwing codes & entering limp mode?

Have you been able to correlate it to engine movement? Ie, when clutch is released or engine shifts on its' mounts from torque? Vibration or similar? If something like this, jiggle testing, pinch testing or spray bottle testing the harness at idle might identify that it is in the harness. Same for the harness connectors.
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Hey guys, OL'rattler the wife will always be negative when I commit my time to something for weeks on end.... The motor has all new parts in it and I rebuilt it myself which I grew up building dirt track motors and race motors so I feel like I have the proper skills for the job. The motor before the glo plug trashed it ran like a new one and I never had any real issues other then a turbo actuator that had to be adjusted. I never had it go into limp mode at all just a burst of power when the turbo surged. After replacing everything and starting the motor up the turbo was failing bad and when I took it apart it was trashed so I replaced it and set up the new one according to recommendations through the site here. It's doing well according to the numbers an may need a tweek but very minimal.

Bob S. I've completely had the harness out of the car and checked each wire by itself thoroughly. I also checked the Ohm's and everything with it. If it's the harness I'd be blown away after all I've done with it. The engine will sit an idle without throwing a code for hours on end. The only codes I will get are the EGR and flapper valve code because they've been removed from the car. Although I may need to hook them back up and try it out. Heck you never know.
Ok so if your sitting in the driveway with the engine warmed up and idling it does fine then you can slowly ease on the fuel peddle and it'll do just fine until you hit just over 2300 rpms at which point it'll kick out to limp mode giving you now power.
The 2nd question is a YES it may run fine for minute or not. I will say that you can ease out onto the main road (which is straight) an FLOOR it and it'll take off like a bat out of hell an run wide open till you let out of it then it'll kick over into limp mode again. I did have it run fine for like 4 miles one day without a issue but I never really got into it hard just normal driving but the revs were higher then the 2300 point multiple times.
I did do the giggle test on the harness as well as jerking and shaking and bending it all over the place when I had it down to individual wires but still couldn't get it to throw a code. We also took to it with a bottle of soapy water but that didn't make any difference either. I did have it one day while sitting idling to warm up throw dozens of codes at one time for no apparent reason but that was way back when I first got it running again. This is why I'm thinking it very well could be the ECU dying out on me.


I do appreciate you guys opinions and help highly because without y'all I would still be in the dark with my car. I've learned so much from everyone that I just have to say thank you....
 

Bob S.

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Location
Central MD.
TDI
A B4V, some ALHs & BRMs
How is the harness from the ECU harness end to the injectors?

Do you have access to a 2nd ECU to plug in & try?
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
Bob the plug looks great between the harness n head. I went over it with a fine tooth comb per say.

I don’t have access to anothe ecu but will be getting one purchased thru eBay later today when I get the numbers off the original one
Narongc..... yes a pain in the butt.
 

Cool4x4man

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Location
Columbus, Mississippi
TDI
06 Jetta 1.9l BRM
So I’m beating a dead horse an its rider at this point.

I put a new battery in the car an left it hooked up with wires running from the battery so I could measure voltage drop across a few days an the voltage was fine. During the time I had the battery out I pulled the pcm out an inspected it best I could as well as going over the wiring once again to verify it was ok.

Now I’m not sure what happened but with my new battery installed an the pcm reinstalled the car want even try to start. After all my reading I’m guessing the pcm has lost its flash possibly from sitting in the drivers seat while I worked for 3 weeks straight before putting it back in.

Any suggestions are welcome an I’m gonna sell the car if anyone’s interested. I have almost 3 grand in the motor since I started the rebuild but my wife is giving me to much crap about it so the first 2 grand can have it. Clear title in hand.
 
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