Brake pedal VERY spongy and dam near goes to the floor

Despite new discs and calipers all round and both nipples on the m/c bled...this was a mech I've used for the last 7-8 years. He used the bottle and tyre pressure method that he's used a million times, when I drive it the pedal's very spongy, the brakes are great when they bite though and if I pump it 2-3 times I feel pressure building but when braking the pedal still goes spongy.

When I took it back and said that's when he bled both nipples on the master but no air came out....could the seals in the master be buggered causing air or fluid to seep past it's all I can think of.

Have you bled all 4 calipers?

If he didn't have VCDS and got air into the ABS system (master ran low while bleeding) then you pretty much can't get it all out with that to cycle the pump.

He's not got it and said it wasn't needed and yes kept the master topped up he did them (all 4) 2-3 times each even he said it was very spongy that's when he bled the master but no air came out, well none I saw as I was watching.

Think I'll need to go back to the first mech I used

Yeah, well, spongy (not sinking slowly to the floor, but actually spongy) is something compressible (e.g. air) in the lines somewhere, or you have a line that has lost its integrity and is bulging (the latter is very dangerous as it can rupture and then you have NO brakes in a big hurry!)

But my money is on air.

Think you're right ie air, I spoke to him earlier he was in a cnut of a mood I said yes it passed (mot) he just said ok we'll get it in next week and look at it but I'm really reluctant to go back. Also the tester said whoever did it needs to do it again I felt like giving him the mech's number and let them "have a chat".

In all honesty though I feel because I'm taking old high milers to him he says fk this it's a banger it's only his . It might be but it's mine and it what I've got and not for him to cut corners or be slap dash with.

I'd thought about getting a mityvac 8500 and redoing it myself, it would do for future use too...but I seriously think I'll be visiting the mech I used to use he's further away but I know I'll get better job done.

Bleeding the master cylinder is not standard practice unless you're replacing it. If it ran low (below the cylinder) it will need the VCDS bleed procedure.
Internet guess it just needs all 4 wheels and clutch cylinder bled. I use a Motive and sometimes I have to do it twice. You can also use the 2 person pedal method. It's good practice to run enough fluid thru each bleed point to see fresh fluid (up to half L per).
I suppose a mityvac type device will work as well, but I like to pressurize vs. vaccum.

Yeah, I use a Motive power bleeder; it makes life MUCH easier. But if you let the master get too low while doing it and get air into the system it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE without VCDS to get the air out of the ABS pump, and if you don't you WILL have a spongy pedal.

Guys listen to what I'm saying please.....he DIDNT let the master go low also pressure bled it as a last resort thinking it might have helped.

I've never hear of this motive and probably don't get it here (uk) we get another make but I think I'd get a mityvac as it's pressure and vac

I was also told by 2 other garages I don't need vcds

You don’t need VCDS to bleed a system that has no air in it. For example, when you replace the fluid every two years as a routine maintenance procedure.

You do need VCDS to bleed a system that does have air in it. You said calipers were replaced, so obviously there would be air in the system.

The fact that your brakes don’t work properly should be evidence enough that these shops are giving you bad advice. What kind of mechanic sends a car out the door with malfunctioning brakes that you have to pump two or three times?

I replaced one caliper on my car and tried to bleed the brakes without VCDS. I bled them over and over again and they simply wouldn’t work properly. I was using a Motive Products pressure bleeder, and also tried without it. I have a VCDS so I finally looked up the ABS bleeding procedure, did it, and my brakes worked as well as the day the car was new.

"What kind of mechanic sends a car out the door with malfunctioning brakes that you have to pump two or three times?"

That says it all.

stucbr said:

I was also told by 2 other garages I don't need vcds

Click to expand...

Well then that settles it.

You were told by two garages that don't have a tool that they don't need to use what they don't have.

You've also been told by a bunch of people here who have owned these cars for a long time, myself included (look to the left) that you DO need it if air gets into the system.

The evidence that air got into the system is that your pedal is spongy.

You're free to ignore all of us who have been there and done that or you can find someone that has VCDS and get this taken care of in a few minutes. Never mind that I have to question the competence of any mechanic, professional or otherwise, who lets a car leave his garage that has malfunctioning brakes.