External oil cooler need ?

My Ranger swap is working great, but I am noticing that now that the temperatures are getting summer like, when I "go hard" up long British Columbia hills my water temperature gauge is going up a little. Indication that things are working hard and more than likely oil temps are sky rocketing.

I remember from my Vanagon conversions that I have seen oil temps on the same hills approach 130C to 140C if I pushed it hard. I added an external oil cooler, which consisted of a thermostatically controlled sandwich adapter and a cast aluminium air cooled oil cooler to maintain temperatures closer to 100C. No oil temp gauge on the ranger, but I can only guess that I am correct that things are getting hot there too.

This is what I have fitted to my TriStar - only with braided lines - works very well! : http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-9217

I pretty much exclusively use 5W40 Rotella T6 "Full Synthetic". The ALH VNT17/R520/Stage 4 Ranger is what I am thinking of doing the upgrade to as I want to be able to do some towing this summer as well. Next project is my 1989 TriStar Syncro with a 2009 CBAA engine going into it - oil cooler is there.

Any "must haves" for the sandwich adapter or is what I have been using the way to go? No, I won't get rid of the "oil temperature regulator" that is there from the factory.

I've always got braided lines made up in the past - is this totally necessary or is there some decent hose out there that doesn't have the braid that cuts into everything? I am using split hydraulic loom around my hose now.

Oil cooler - I've always used the cast aluminum ones, like this in the EMPI kit. Is there an advantage / disadvantage to this style?

I've been thinking of just using a automatic transmission fluid radiator which is more like a conventional radiator, mainly because there are 100s of them at the wrecking yard for cheap. Both will be mounted in the direct air flow in front of my radiator on my Ranger.

I welcome your thoughts on this hot topic!

are you running the ranger rad ?.... never had an issue with my taco maintaining rock solid temps even on the hottest days here in NC... what t stat are you running ? also what are your iat's during the long uphill climbs ?

jimbote said:

are you running the ranger rad ?.... never had an issue with my taco maintaining rock solid temps even on the hottest days here in NC... what t stat are you running ? also what are your iat's during the long uphill climbs ?

Click to expand...

I am using a MK3 TDI radiator. The temperature needle isn't pegging, but you can see it go up just ever so slightly and according to logs on my CAN2DASH it gets around around 97C from a normal 91 to 93C. Also, British Columbia has some LONG steep hills, so I'm talking a three or four minute BURN where the turbo is getting in the region of you should consider slacking off! 6 and 8% grades on the highway is the norm around here! I've never had it hot enough for the radiator fans to kick in [MK2 rad fan switch] - driving or parked.

I don't know what the IATs on my Ranger - not monitoring of that at this moment. I know on the ATJ that was in my TriStar with the same power as my Ranger I was getting in to the 50C range on long hard pulls like that. Never got into the region where the software would want to do something about it though.

I think what is driving my oil temperatures up is the turbo that is working hard, not so much the engine that is working hard. I would be interesting if one could run the oil output of a turbo thru an oil cooler before it got back into the pan.

I'd just fit a larger oil to coolant exchanger, like the ones fitted to the V6 gas engines. I have one on my 99.5 TDI and was able to use the factory coolant lines.

-J

David, i'm running a stock tacoma V6 rad and a BHW oil cooler... even on my trip out west last year up and down steep grades i never saw the temps climb... maybe the mk3 rad is not up to the task ?....rad in good shape?.... just had a friend go through heating issues with his 22r powered yota and the last thing he replaced (the rad) was the issue although he had tried flushing it

Sounds like maybe your radiator is lacking in capacity from being older? I had an issue with my tractor overheating. I checked with everything and cleaned out the radiator, still overheating. Finally rolled the dice and put a new radiator on it, never had a problem since. The original looked ok, but it wasn't doing much for cooling.

I would think a mk3 radiator in good shape would cool it.

jimbote said:

David, i'm running a stock tacoma V6 rad and a BHW oil cooler... even on my trip out west last year up and down steep grades i never saw the temps climb... maybe the mk3 rad is not up to the task ?....rad in good shape?.... just had a friend go through heating issues with his 22r powered yota and the last thing he replaced (the rad) was the issue although he had tried flushing it

Click to expand...

I'm not having water temperature issues. I know from previous experience my oil temperatures are going into the 135C plus range which is starting to get out of spec. I want to be able to sink excess oil heat to the atmosphere as opposed to the engine cooling system as evident to the slight increase in water temperatures as the factory "cooler" does it's job. My ALH engine has 250.000+km on it, so I want to keep it in as good condition as possible, especially when I start towing things - keeping oil temperatures in the 100 to 110C range is going to help ensure that.

I've had good luck with universal coolers from places like summit.

I've had this one on my big turbo audi 90, and its oil temps always ran very cool, when the non-turbo version of my car that was stock ran much hotter. This particular cooler was robust.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70266

I think there are kits out there to run an external cooler on a TDI right?

I'm having similar experiences in my TDI Ranger David, mainly when I'm towing something heavy. Have you considered simply installing the factory Ranger, external oil cooler? Mount on the passenger side behind the grille. I've seen tons of them in the junk yards in pristine shape. I think between this and upgrading to the larger water cooled job like Jim is using and temps should be in check. Probably one of my next projects on my Ranger.

greengeeker said:

I'm having similar experiences in my TDI Ranger David, mainly when I'm towing something heavy. Have you considered simply installing the factory Ranger, external oil cooler? Mount on the passenger side behind the grille. I've seen tons of them in the junk yards in pristine shape. I think between this and upgrading to the larger water cooled job like Jim is using and temps should be in check. Probably one of my next projects on my Ranger.

Click to expand...

You must be referring to the ATF cooler? My 3.0L V6 didn't have anything like that. My former 4.0L V6 automatic didn't have an external engine cooler either. The ATF radiator is exactly what I was thinking doing - get the thermostatically controlled sandwich adapter and run it into the ATF radiator - just wondering if it is large / efficient enough or not?

your rising coolant temps on long climbs would seem to indicate your cooling system does not have enough reserve capacity to deal with your rising oil temps if that is indeed what is happening .... in that case increasing the size of the oil cooler may do nothing to alleviate the issue.... i can see the addition of an oil to air t stat controlled cooling loop helping out but a simpler solution may be to increase your cooling system's capacity and adding an extra large oil > coolant cooler such as the BHW unit or the V6 passat/audi unit

OK... still having some issues with things getting hot... or at least I think they are getting hot.

I replaced my radiator with a new one (old was 300TKM+) - MK3 TDI radiator, new 87C T-stat, new rad fan switch, new water pump (metal) no obstructions in my hoses, new coolant 50/50 mix, readline water wetter - 5.5L is the coolant capacity of the system and there are not air pockets.

Normal driving the ECU is reporting 93 to 95C, if I give it the beans and drive it HARD the temperatures will climb to 105 to 108C. 1749VB / R520 / Malone Stage 4 and will recover to about 95C after a minute or so. So the same as it was before I starting replacing things.

I even took a motorcycle inner tube, opened it and made it so there is a complete seal between the grill and the radiator - no air can bypass the rad.

The radiator is getting hot, hot enough I won't keep my hand on it for very long, the return hose is hot, yet the rad fan has never kicked in.

After getting the truck pulled over and idling for a few seconds the IR thermometer shows 85 to 95C on the cylinder head and upper 70s on the block. Hose right out of the head is 90C or there about. Radiator at the input is high 80s.

Still haven't got my oil cooler installed, but I noticed something interesting as I was setting up Torque on my new 7" 2DIN Android radio. The truck was sitting for about 4h, manifold temp was 20C and water temp was 30C . . . I know the sensor has two circuits, one for the ECU and one for the gauge, both do read higher when the engine is working hard, but... seems a bit of a discrepancy. Am I worrying over nothing and I just happen to have a sender that is reading warm?

I am having a hard time believing that the MK3 rad can't keep up as the MK3 can drive all day on the autobahn in the middle of the summer which is as much load as I am putting on it. I am sure my tune is a bit hot, but, this means that it is putting heat where? Oil from cooling the pistons and a hot turbo or does the water system take most of it?

I have a 650km trip to Vancouver on the 1st that I have to get the wife to her surgery appointment - needless to say, I want to focus on her and not the Ranger.

Suggestions here? I am thinking adding the oil cooler this weekend - can't hurt, but what else am I missing?

Intercooler sizing have anything to do with over-all temps. I am running only the stock intercooler at this moment...

To be honest, our Passat will get that hot pulling up a mountain too...

How long at high load does it take for the temps to climb? How fast is the engine turning at that point? Can you use VCDS to compare the cluster temp to the ecu temp?

Perhaps an oil temp gauge would help you figure out if that's where your heat is coming from. I think ones which screw into the oil drain plug are available. That would be better than measuring the temp at the oil filter housing since that's after the cooler. The pan should be the hottest point in the system.

-J

Hasenwerk said:

Intercooler sizing have anything to do with over-all temps.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Can you log your IMT during one of your blasts?

What are you hitting as far as EGTs are concerned?

Did a bit more running around yesterday afternoon. Ambient was low 20s. Constant 110km/h for about 5km resulted in 94C to 96C water temperatures - a tad high in my experience. IAT was 45 to 55C and if I pushed on it to make in the neighborhood of 1.5 bar of boost about 65 to 75C, which I admit isn't perfect.

I think at this point, the only thing I can do aside from installing to original Ranger radiator back in is to install the oil cooler and remove that heat from the equation.

BTW, bought a 2 DIN 7" Android 5.1.1 head unit from Hong Kong - http://www.carjoying.com - using Torque Pro on it, pretty slick! Too bad that OBD-2 is so slow! CAN bus monitoring is way better!

And your EGTs?

I need to haul some feed (around 1000lb) later today. I'll do a log of my water temp and IAT to see how it behaves.

No pyrometer installed as of yet. I have the TC in the manifold and the cable run... I suppose I should get off my ass and to that too!

Might be a little premature on this as I haven't gone for a significant drive yet, but I am sure the oil cooler had made the necessary difference to keep the temperatures in check!

What is installed is a 72 plate mesa oil cooler with a thermostatically controlled sandwich adapter. This has increased my oil capacity by 1 liter, which is always good in my opinion! Going for a hard run I can get my water up to 94C for all but a very brief time. The rest of the hard run, the water is in the 92 to 93C range which is perfectly fine. This same run would have resulted in 97 to 98C oil temperatures that would have stayed around for a while.

The only issue is, and I am quite disappointed about it, the sandwich adapter is leaking oil where the brass fittings screw in. These are f'ing tight, but a small seep is happening, so it will have to come off this weekend and I need to install some thread sealing compound. Photos will be taken at this time as well.

Been over the kootany pass and similar with the ahu rad in my swap without much issue. Thats maintaining 90-100km on 34" tires too. Big thing is keeping the revs higher and keep that water moving.

I have an oil temp gauge in mine and did notice it climb but nothing crazy. Maybe worth investing in a oil temp gauge to see whats really going on.

65c iat at relatively low 20 c ambient seems too high and could be the cause of your extra heat loading, maybe look into ditching that stock ic setup for a larger front mount ?

Can bus monitor

So what is the procedure to hook up torque pro to the canbus?

Just drive to Vancouver today. Drove it to keep up with everyone else, so 110 to 120 most of the way including the guild. 96C is the highest the water temperature for to on two occasions and only for a few moments, the the oil cooler definitely made a huge difference. Ambient was mid 20s, highest ITA was 60 with the average being 40 to 50, so that's the next thing to work on. What made the largest difference for water temp was the engine rpm. If I can keep the engine at 2500rpm then the temperature never gets above 93, only when I bill climb at 2000 rpm is when things get warm, so the larger tires is somewhat to blame here... 4.10 would make a difference!

7.6l/100km was my average today!

I have a similar issue with my audi AHU swap. I drive over a mountain every day, and when it is hot outside and I drive the car very hard my temps start climbing. I do have an oil temp gauge, and when oil temps start to climb, so do the coolant temps. I am going to add an external oil cooler and see if that helps.

Looking forward to the results.

Just going to post a reply on this to say that I am 95% sure I have the issue resolved. I hate it myself when I see threads like this and then nothing... was it fixed and they didn't share or ???

The only thing that was left was to replace the head gasket as I was starting to go thru coolant. I replaced the head gasket and also head the head rebuilt at the same time. Besides valve guides being a little worn, all was good with the head with 272.000km on it.

When the head was off, I noticed that the front of the engine is about 3 to 6cm higher than the back of the engine and that by filling it with just pouring the coolant in, there would be no way of displacing that air - thus creating a void that wouldn't sync heat very well. So I bought a Robinair vacuum coolant filler.

I have had the truck out several times and drove hard with no issues, but unfortunately three things have changed, so it's hard to say what was the actual "fix" for the over heating I was experiencing.

- New head gasket
- Ambient temperature between 0C and 10C
- Vacuum cooling system filler

Now, I am going to start to put my money on the vacuum cooling system filler. For those who don't have one, it's one of those devices like a shop compressor - you can do everything without it, and once you buy one, you can't imagine life without it. That tool is bloody awesome! I would say this was the fix because besides standing the truck up on it's nose, there is no way you can get all the air out of it to fill it with coolant and I am sure those voids were what was causing the issues. Also, filling the system is SO much quicker and you don't spill a drop.

Let's see if this is my last post on this thread or not!