Rotella 0w40 or chevron delo 400 synth. ?

I finally, in Montreal, found two sources of oil for my TDI. The chevron delo 400 synthetic is available for 6.90$cdn/liter and you have to buy a case of 16 liters. I also found the rotella t sb full synthetic 0w40 for 4.90$cdn/liter and I have to buy a 12 liters case. So which one is the best oil and which one shoul I buy??

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I can't say which one is better, but I can help further confuse the situation by giving you some points to ponder on each oil.

Chevron delo synthetic pro's...

* The 5w40 is a more stable viscousity, ditto with the 0w30 it also comes in.
* Its been on the market longer, so it has a longer proven track record.

Shell rotella SB 0w40 pro's

* Its a PAO/ester blend, which is better, since the chevron is a full PAO, but others have mentioned that when the chevron reformulates the oil for CH-4, it will then use a blend of PAO/ester. You can always talk to the tech line for chevron (1 800 582 3835) to see if this is going to happen, or perhaps has already happened.
* Shell has made effective additive packages in their conventional rotella, and tech support insists that they use the same additive package in this oil.
* The price is very attractive.

Hmmm...I'm kinda leaning toward the Shell SB personally.
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My Project GTD and diesel page http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject


[This message has been edited by Dominique Cormann (edited March 18, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dominique Cormann (edited March 18, 2000).]

Salut Vitesse!
Welcome to the forum. Dominique I thought there was a petrocanada and also a Canadian tire synthetic that you mentioned were very good and met spec.

When I had my old gas jetta, my mechanic told me I shoudn't go lower than 5w30 if I wanted to prevent leaks. So I used 10w30 mobil 1 in winter and 15w50 in summer. Do I have to be concerned to use a 0w40 in my new TDI?

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The SB isn't full synthic. It's a blend. (Hence "SB": Synthetic Blend.) The synthetic portion of it might be a mix of PAO and Ester, but the rest of it is dino oil.

-mickey

On the canadian wedsite they clearly say that the rotella t sb 0w40 is 100% synthetic(the 10w40 in a synth. blend). The distributor here in Québec said the same thing.

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Mickey,
Dominique rightly pointed out to me that the Shell formulations in Canada are different than in the states, the SB there is a full synthetic.

I believe the Rotella SB may in fact be a blend - perhaps of PAO/Ester/Hydroisomerized petroleum oil - I don't see how they can sell it for $3.00 US (approx) and make a profit. The best basestock and additive technology is quite expensive ....I would tend to lean towards the Delo 400 synthetic, as others on the Forum have had good results with it.

If Dominique could post spec sheets on both products, I could make an educated guess as to which oil would hold up better .... I just took a look at Dominiques oil site (excellent ,BTW) ...the flash point of the Rotella SB is only 437F, vs 460F for the Delo 400 synthetic. Both oils have TBN's of 9.0 ...I happen to like the Delo 400 petroleum oil over the Rotella T product, so I'd say go with the Delo 400.

Synthetic oils are like any other manufactured product - you get what you pay for. Mobil can produce the same product for a slightly lower cost, as they have invested lots of money towards large scale production of PAO's and Esters - I don't know if this is true to the same extend for other oil companies. Additive packages run about same, as many companies buy from these from Lubrizol ....

2S

[This message has been edited by Ted (edited March 18, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ted (edited March 18, 2000).]

Ted, Dominique is a young man and is doing better things on Saturday night than discussing oil with us. Check out his website I think everything is listed there. Let us know.

Vitesse,

No the 0w40 will work fine. Once the oil is warm, the viscousity is going to be thinner then when the oil is cold, so what your mechanic is saying isn't correct. From a leak standpoint you have nothing to worry about.

Mickey,

In the US, Shell makes a different SB line of oils then we get in canada. Our SB line includes a full synthetic 0w40 oi. See my web page, and you can see the links to the US and Canadian web sites...you can see the differences.

Ted,

Ya I REALLY wondered this myself to....so I emailed them. On my page in the shell section is the letter I got back. I specifically asked what the 'full synthetic' was. I asked if contained any group III or II oils. They were thankfully pretty specific back. No group III oils are used in any of the rotella products. The 0w40 is a blend of mostly PAO, with some Diester base oils. No other base oils.

Valois,

Petrocanada makes a fine group II ( Duron ) based product, an amazing for the price (IMHO) group III based oil (Duron XL), and a synth blend (group III/PAO - Duron XL synthblend), but no full synthetics.

Canadian tire has a full synthetic, which at one time was a rebadge of Esso's synthetic oil. Today I'm not totally sure. Actually before it was Essos oil, it was mobil 1 in a rebadge bottle. But this is the SJ/CF oil they make. They don't have a full synthetic diesel house brand. They have a synthetic blend diesel oil in the house brand - which is Esso's 0w30 synthetic blend (CH-4).

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I want to learn some more about this new oil from shell, since after all these boys ( at the US shell ) have been preaching about how much of a waste synthetic engine oils are for diesels for a long while now. I wanna get somebody from Shell to say it outload, or even better in an email that I can post, that synthetics are:

1. More stable - better HTHS
2. Do not promote deposits
3. By adding esters, you overcome the solubility issue with some synthetics ( the pure PAO based products ).
4. Offer better fuel economy
5. Save money because of extended drain times.
6. Offer much better soot suspension ability.

They allude to some of this in that terrible FAQ they have on the US web page, but they try very hard to make it sound like synthetics have little to no benefits. They admit partially to a few, but try to discount the value of the few benefits they admit too...so I wanna have somebody their comment of the Canadian full synthetic product. I think tomorrow night I'll start emailing away and see what happens.

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My Project GTD and diesel page
http://kozmik.guelph.on.ca/gtdproject

Go get em. By the way how old are you Dominique, and are you Quebecois?

I did want to add, Shell makes a point of stating that the Rotella SB, 0w-40 is only CG-4 rated; while their other Rotella SB products are CH-4 rated - probably not a big deal, but this contributes somewhat to the low price, since they're using older additive chemistry.

Dom,

Shell wants it both ways ...they want you to buy more expensive synthetics and still change them as often as petroleum oils

Ted

[This message has been edited by Ted (edited March 18, 2000).]

Shell does an about face again on their european website, offering clearly different oils than what is availible in North America. Ted, I am still of the opinion that CH-4 requires reformulation of synthetics to meet minimum viscosity. If Chevron has to reformulate Delo 400 which is a 5W-40, imagine what VI would have to be added to rate a 0W-40. I wish you would contact Amsoil on this and pin them down, I believe they would be much more apt to speak to you than someone that does not deal their products. Getting the reformulation info from Mobil and Chevron was like pulling teeth, manufacturers do not want an informed customer. It was only after several contacts, and asking specific questions that I could tell made them uncomfortable to discuss. After seeing what Dominique posted concerning PC-9 I am begining to wonder if a synthetic that is CG-4 is not actually better than one that is API certified CH-4.

Valois, have you tried to contact Valvoline? I think I read somewhere that their new Synpower 5w-40 is an oil that meets the VW TDI spec.

This may be an alternative for you if you don't want to use, or can't find, Delvac-1.

Valois,

You have posted this several times and I still don't understand the point you are trying to make ....What do you mean by minimum viscosity? At what test temperature? Most of the differences between CG-4 and CH-4 that I've seen relate to the oils' ability to suspend/disperse soot without a severe increase in viscosity, or an increase in the wear rate ....I agree that a really wide range synthetic is not desirable in a diesel, due to the excessive amount of polymer needed.

KO,

The synpower 5w-40 is SJ/CF rated, but does meet the ACEA A3/B3 requirements for minimum HT/HS viscosity @ 150C (302F) - sort of like the Castrol Syntec that VW stocks ....

Ted

[This message has been edited by Ted (edited March 19, 2000).]

Ted,
When I finally got someone at Mobil that was willing to discuss it(outside the party line marketing) They ststed that Delvac 1 had to be reformulated to meet CH-4, that in fact the reformulation was due to the viscosity range being to wide with the original product and that they had to reduce the lower range to meet specifications outlined by CH-4 certification. The other manufacturers that I spoke with or visited their website indicated that their synthetic although not CH-4 rated was expected to "exceed" the rating. Visiting the API site and doing a search of CH-4 oils returned a list of mainly 15W-40 mineral oils or Blends, There are very few full synthetics listed. Amsoils refusal to certify for CH-4 with the series 3000, and Dominiques post concerning PC-9 all add up to give me the impression that CH-4 may be scewered to promote mineral oils and that certifying a synthetic may actually reduce it's advantages. This is one of the reasons why I am willing to give the series 3000 a try. I am begining to believe the possibility exists that CG-4 synthetics already contain soot dispersal and deposit control inherent in the CH-4 specs, but other aspects of the spec require a reduction in viscosity which requires reformulation simply to reduce the range. Look at the specs Turbo Steve posted on Delvac vs Amsoil, I had thought that these products were esentially the same base but the numbers belie differences. I defer to you on this question, you certainly know more than I do about oil. It is speculation on my part, but it seems to add up.

KO,
Thanks for the lead. I checked out Valvolines website the 5W-40 does meet VW's spec, it is A CF-4 rated oil made from Ester basestock, looks very similar to Mobil 1.