2006 tdi no power black smoke under 2000 rpm

I stopped in to see my TDI guru this morning, he took the car for a quick test drive and quickly determined my issue to be injector related.

Going to try a couple of tanks with injector cleaner and see if it helps, if not, its on to replacing injectors.

Hey Dbdubb,
After quickly looking through your information, I don't think that you are having quite the same issue that I was having. If I performed the basic settings test for the egr or the output tests for the engine (same tests DanG144 is talking about), it would kill the engine every time. However, if I drove the car around and warmed it up, sometimes the tests would pass, but the engine would chug and puff black smoke. Just an idea, try the basic settings EGR 03 test when you first start your car for the day and see if it stays running or struggles at all.
Your pressure differences between on and off N75 cycles sound more normal as well. I tuned mine down so that it was about 80-90 differential, but when I started adjusting the screw I was originally around 250 or so differential. While adjusting the screw I had some results around your differential, and the engine was running very smooth, and probably just as smooth as the final adjustment that I ended up with. I just wanted to get as close to 80 delta P as possible. Another very quick test that you can do to see if it is turbo related is disconnect the vacuum line that hooks up to the turbo actuator. Then take it for a test drive and see if the symptoms are gone. My car was surging while in park while I revved it in the 2500 RPM range, so it was easy to see that the turbo was causing problems. After I disconnected the vacuum line from the turbo, the engine was completely smooth, although low on power. I'm curious to see what fixes your problem though, so post as you try new things. By the way, my Jetta is still running great since my adjustments and I haven't had a surge or puff of smoke since. The engine is strong yet smooth, and the boost is consistent. Can't say enough about the advice and help that's here on these forums.
Thanks again.

n2carz said:

Wow, great job sixamskier! A newbie providing this kind of info...sweet. This all makes perfect sense too.

Is there a situation where you would want the vanes closed off? Idle? Are these acting like a wastegate sometimes? If not, why didn't they design the vanes so they could not touch tip to tail and close off completely?

I was assuming this condition for me was due to the extreme hot and humid temps and running the A/C, and have noticed that around 1800 rpm in 1st gear, the boost just slams so much that the tires started sqealing, most noticable after cold start. Been like this for a couple of years, but worse this year. Was always thinking the vane position sensor is bad, but this adjustment sounds like the remedy.

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I'm not exactly sure about VW's logic with this turbo. I haven't noticed any lag at all since the adjustment and the spool up is smooth rather than erratic like you are explaining, and like mine used to be. One thing, now that I have the set screw adjusted and realize what was going on inside my turbo when it would surge, I realize now what kind of stress must have been induced into the turbo vanes when they would finally receive enough n75 vacuum drop to move the vanes from closed to open. Virtually as JSRmonster explains, the vanes slam open from all of the backpressure. I have to admit, these turbos must be very tough to withstand the amount of erratic pressure changes that many of us are experiencing.

What if you where to hang a ASV and EGR valve and remove the plugs from the intake ones and plug into them instead ?????

Are any of you going to be at the TDIFest? I would like to either ride in one your cars or have someone ride in mine to confirm I have the same problem before I start messing with the turbo adjustment.

2006 jetta tdi BRM

what is the turbo smart actuator setting and the stop screw setting, mine being a BRM engine unsure as to set mine the same as in this thread......my vcds basic setting channel 11 is 938mb at 9.9% and 1162mb at 90.3%

settings

My Jetta is also a BRM 06 Jetta TDI. The adjustments that I made above resulted in the screen shots that I posted above (80 psi spread). I would like to see if someone can get similar results by adjusting the actuator rod instead. Anyone played with that yet?

You will not get the same results adjusting the actuator rod. The rod should be adjusted to set the point at which the turbo starts moving (3 to 5" hg is the classic number), and at which it hits the stop set screw you adjusted, 'skier. It should hit the stop screw at about 18" hg vacuum.

The actuator rod should be checked as part of the set up of any turbo.

Just for giggles I ran basic settings 011 on 5 of my current BRM inventory vehicles and all were in the range of 959-979 mbar off and 1132 -1142 mbar on. Who came up with the 80 mbar spread range? Maybe the magic range would be 100 mbar to 200 mbar spread? 80 mbar may be optimal however, none of the 5 I did were even close to 80 mbar spread and were more like 150 to 170 mbar spread. I find it hard to believe that all 5 of my cars would be that far from the proper setting, wouldn't you agree? Later!

I agree, the 80 mbar is a minimum, not a target.

I would say that most well running BRMs that I have tested have more than 150 mbar spread.

I think a big part of the test is Basic Settings 003 test as well, as is of course if you have bogging symptoms or not.

It was good to hear that 'skier was able to get good performance, even when he adjusted for the minimum acceptable turbo response. But I would not try to shoot for the minimum.

DanG144 said:

I agree, the 80 mbar is a minimum, not a target.

I would say that most well running BRMs that I have tested have more than 150 mbar spread.

I think a big part of the test is Basic Settings 003 test as well, as is of course if you have bogging symptoms or not.

It was good to hear that 'skier was able to get good performance, even when he adjusted for the minimum acceptable turbo response. But I would not try to shoot for the minimum.

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Dan, Where or who says 80 mbar is a minimum? Later!

Not a definitive source, but the VCDS system has a bubble that comes up that says that for the BRM and PD. Going from memory here.

I have never had one come close to the 80 minimum, always well over it. I think 120 was about the least I have seen - except for those that had no response at all - usually bad vacuum system.

After 1 turn in of adjustment on the turbo stop screw my 06 jetta BRM is running better than ever before with smooth running through all rpms. Mine died during EGR test before and now runs the test after to adjustment.

On my car I had to take out the turbo drain pipe screws at turbo to slide over enough to get a 10 mm socket on it, there was no space between drain pipe and lock nut.

sandcroy said:

after 1 turn in of adjustment on the trubo stop screw my 06 jetta BRM is running better than ever before with smooth running threw all rpms, mine died during EGR test before and runs the test after to adjustment.

On my car I had to take out the turbo drain pipe screws at turbo to slide over enough to get a 10 mm socket on it, there was no space between drain pipe and lock nut.

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I didn't know that pipe would move over if you loosened the oil drain pipe. That would make the adjustments much easier. Just curious, could you do the basic settings test on channel 11 and post your differential in pressure between on and off cycles.

Also Dan is correct in that it states that the mbar difference is min. 80. I also found in another thread that I should adjust it as close to 80 as possible. I did notice that when I had around 150 or so mbar spread the car was running much better and I probably could have left the set screw alone at that point, I just though that I should be adjusting for 80 per previous threads and my search results. I would venture to say that as long as the mbar spread is less than 170 or so that the adjustment is correct. Before I started adjusting I was pushing around 250 -300 mbar spread and the turbo would spool up quite a bit as the pressure rose. Cool sounding, but I guess is not correct for these cars. All in all, I'm not sure that 80 mbar is the magical number, although it did work in my instance.

Here is a copy of a PM.

DanG144 said:

sandcroy said:

Hello Dan group 11 readings are 918mb at 9.9% with test off and 1030mb at 90.3%and the EGR test 390mg at 100.6% duty cycle and with test on 210MG at 80.5 %... the car runs great now after 1 turn adjustment on set screw on turbo, amazzing how 1 turn can make so much difference and now the EGR test runs without killing engine. Lets me know what you think of these new numbers after the adjustment

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The turbo numbers look fine.
It looks to me as if you have something wrong with air flow. It should be about 450 mg/str with the EGR off (100% DC). Either your MAF is reading low, or your EGR valve is not fully closing (which is not uncommon on BRM engines.) You are losing about 13% of your low rpm fueling (power), because you are 13% low on air flow.

If you have not posted this, would it be ok if I did?

Sharing information is important.

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My car was showing in group 11... 240 mb difference before adjustment and now it is 112mb after 1 turn adjustment. Running problems are now fixed and the EGR test runs and doesn't kill the engine.

Oh yea! I found the baloon label which specified 80mbar min. by placing cursor over the field. Later!

Harvieux said:

Oh yea! I found the baloon label which specified 80mbar min. by placing cursor over the field. Later!

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Hey Harvieux,
Thanks for doing that test on your VW's. After having so many of your tests come back in that range I think that maybe the range to shoot for if problems are experienced. Also, how is the boost performance on your VW's. Is it smooth all the time, or do they have any spikes or erratic boost at all?
Thanks,
Wade.

sixamskier said:

Hey Harvieux,
Thanks for doing that test on your VW's. After having so many of your tests come back in that range I think that maybe the range to shoot for if problems are experienced. Also, how is the boost performance on your VW's. Is it smooth all the time, or do they have any spikes or erratic boost at all?
Thanks,
Wade.

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Wade, I only ran basic settings on charge pressure reg. and EGR and couldn't spend any more time performing logs and graphs at this time. Later!

So this is what I have going on.

90.3 Duty 1152.6 mbar
9.9 Duty 958.8 mbar

Difference of 193.8 mbar

This doesn't seem to be a horrible spread. Other issue I've noticed for awhile is group 13 injection deviation cyl 4 hasn't been close to the other cylinders. I have yet to get a good log, but difference has been around .5 mg/str and the others have been -.02 or so. I've ran diesel purge through but hasn't resolved the difference, been thinking I need to swap a injector in as well.

Thoughts?

The =/- 0.5 mg/stroke is probably not an issue. This is at the outer edge of my personal "normal spread" range. When I cannot get it under 1.0 I would start to plan to do something about it.

How does your engine respond to Basic settings test 003?

Are you having operational issues? Hesitation, black smoke?

DanG144 said:

The =/- 0.5 mg/stroke is probably not an issue. This is at the outer edge of my personal "normal spread" range. When I cannot get it under 1.0 I would start to plan to do something about it.

How does your engine respond to Basic settings test 003?

Are you having operational issues? Hesitation, black smoke?

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I have a block off plate on the EGR and stage 1+ tune done. Black smoke big time, and hesitation has been getting worse.

Last fall when I had Frank put in my southbend clutch I had him take a look at why I was smoking so bad. So he found the EGR valve was sticking open, mechanical issue, and also that injection deviation difference. We ran some diesel purge then and cylinder 4 returned to inline with the others.

Nic, What is your air flow at idle? Group 003 actual.

425 to 435 mg/str

nic_a_bod said:

So this is what I have going on.

90.3 Duty 1152.6 mbar
9.9 Duty 958.8 mbar

Difference of 193.8 mbar

This doesn't seem to be a horrible spread. Other issue I've noticed for awhile is group 13 injection deviation cyl 4 hasn't been close to the other cylinders. I have yet to get a good log, but difference has been around .5 mg/str and the others have been -.02 or so. I've ran diesel purge through but hasn't resolved the difference, been thinking I need to swap a injector in as well.

Thoughts?

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I would say do a 3/4 to 1 full turn in on the stop screw and your issue should be resolved.

A word of caution which I have discovered the hard way is the ear where the threads are for the stop screw can be very brittle and could snap upon loosening or tightening the lock nut. I'm guessing that the heat produced by the turbo may weaken the metal or possibly the metal being a weak cast to begin with could be the culprit. This fiasco will require the replacement of the turbo and could possibly be even a bigger issue in inclement weather areas to where oxidation would be more prevalent. Later!

Yes, the ear breaking off recently happened to a friend of mine.

I would agree that if your cam is in good shape, then Harv is right on the money.

Harvieux said:

I would say do a 3/4 to 1 full turn in on the stop screw and your issue should be resolved.
A word of caution which I have discovered the hard way is the ear where the threads are for the stop screw can be very brittle and could snap upon loosening or tightening the lock nut. I'm guessing that the heat produced by the turbo may weaken the metal or possibly the metal being a weak cast to begin with could be the culprit. This fiasco will require the replacement of the turbo and could possibly be even a bigger issue in inclement weather areas to where oxidation would be more prevalent. Later!

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Thanks for the input so far. I was able to finally log some data today, skip the story on why I couldn't before, but injection deviation while driving wasn't so great from what I understand about it.

Worst reading I seen (cylinder 1 - 4) .16, -.92, -.38, 1.13

It seemed to hang around this area majority of the time: -.02, -.66, -.26, .96

So I should be replacing that one injector for what ever cylinder 4 represents in vagcom I'm guessing after this data right?

Also forgot to add that I changed the cam around 90,000 when I did the timing belt, and just checked the cam this past spring when I checked the injector lash and the cam looked good. 136,000 miles on it now.

I would try to clean the injectors with lubromoly dieselpurge.

That is not a good spread, but not terrible. If I could not keep mine under 1.0 mg/stroke maximum deviation, I would plan to do something about it, but feel no time pressure.

If it got over 1.5 mg/stroke, I would be looking to do something fairly quickly - with a month or so.

DanG144 said:

I would try to clean the injectors with lubromoly dieselpurge.
.

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I ran a can of that through in June and didn't help like it did last fall. I can try it one more time before I go dropping 300 some on an injector.