If there is a Buyback..What would it take for you get out of your TDI?

CraziFuzzy said:

'realistically', you have to look at the damages we've incurred to this point. Right now, the only damages any of us have incurred from this fiasco is Pride (from being lied to), and increased pollution (which is an assault on everyone, not just the TDi owners).

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I don't know about you but the damages I have incurred are not so much to my pride but that I have been defrauded.

jayemdaet said:

I don't know about you but the damages I have incurred are not so much to my pride but that I have been defrauded.

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Right - which did nothing but hurt your pride. Has the fraud, at this point in time, cost you a cent?

IndigoBlueWagon said:

KBB today shows your car worth $10,491 - $12,008 as a trade. Don't know where the dealer got that number. Maybe they were testing how desperate you were to sell.

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That's what I'm thinking.

nattyboh2027 said:

Someone please explain to me why can't VW do a buyback and issue a car voucher up to about $25,000!?? I bought a brand new 2013 Jetta TDI in 2014, I've been doubling up on my monthly payments and could possibly have it paid off by the end of the year. Why should all of the TDI owners have to suffer with degraded performance/mpg if the EPA/Feds enforce a mandatory recall? VW better issue me a dang car voucher for one of their gas cars!!!

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Well, I am half way through my payments. I owe about 16k on my 2013 Passat TDI still. I have 0% financing, so no incentive to pay a single cent back early. If they gave me $25k, that would leave about 9k to use towards a new car. What if I don't want a gas based VW, could I take my $9k elsewhere?.

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Lots of speculation to what VW would offer IF they offers a buyback. Some of the speculation in this post is very optimistic and likely some of those owners are going to be disappointed with any reasonably generous buyback that VW will offer.


VW is very likely weighing the costs of a voluntary buyback. While offering some goodwill to make them look good, it would curb and perhaps eliminate most of the legal expense with all the vulture lawyers lining up for class action suit. It will would make some profit on the new car and also move some 2015 & 2016 inventory especially since the expected demand is probably reduced. It will make a big difference on how much the costs to get the cars into compliance and the expectation of the future warranty repairs as a result. I am sure some department in VW is busy crunching the numbers.


VW isn't going to offer 150% of KBB retail like Toyota did on the Tacoma, Toyota knew that the Tacoma were very likely going to be 8+ years old and a buy back was applied to the sale of a new Toyota, which lessened the expense plus they didn't have to pay dealership labor rate to replace the frame. With the affected TDI being 0-6 years old, only the oldest models have gone the through the steepest portion of the depreciation curve.

CraziFuzzy said:

Right - which did nothing but hurt your pride. Has the fraud, at this point in time, cost you a cent?

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Yes, the price of the vehicle itself.

Since the car performed better in the past than it will after the fix (would it?), I'm not so sure they owe us anything for the past. So, a buy-back using current value would be the most I would think fair.

I think I want to see how bad the fix is before worrying too much about buybacks. If it makes the car less desireable, then yeah, now I'm out resale value, etc., but I don't understand how people would expect anything like a full refund. If there's harm to the environment, then let the government give them a penalty -- I don't want a NOx-tax. If they want to retrofit the car with a crummy patch, perhaps then they should give me a buyback option. I would entertain trading in for a GTI. Not sure what else they have that I would like. Beetle? CC? It would cost them a ton, but if they could convert into sales, seems like that might work out somewhat.... although, I could have traded the car in last year for a GTI -- what's the punishment? They need to sweeten the deal somehow to make it a buy-back and not just the same as if I took it to Carmax. Eh? I'm missing something...

Interesting article:

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagens-tdi-fix-will-probably-mean-worse-fuel-econo-1733778333

I for one love my TDI, but that being said, VW has sold us illegal vehicles and in doing so, defrauded us in the process. Even Bosch warned VW back in 2007 about this software, so they contrived to hide the problem even earlier than thought. Not only did we pay VW a $5,000 premium for the diesel option, VW received $50,000,000 from the Bush Administration through lobbying over clean air.
Right now I'm investigating my options. I still owe money on my car payments for a car I purchased in good faith, that VW is technically in breach of contract over.

Hey, I have a question. Everyone's been saying that to comply with emissions, the milage has to go down. For that to be true, it has to burn more fuel. What happens to the energy? Could it actually make the car perform better or is it wasted as heat? I'd be willing to live with a bit less milage if it's faster. :-D

Ok, trying to find something positive out of this....

If it does use more fuel after the fix, it'll be wasted as heat, either in the form of heat or fuel intentionally added for the emissions control systems, or less efficient modes of engine operation to reduce engine-out NOx.

jayemdaet said:

Yes, the price of the vehicle itself.

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you lost your car? I didn't see that part of the articles on the scandal. Seriously - you have the exact same car you had a month ago. The 'scandal' has not changed a single thing about your purchase to this date.

CraziFuzzy said:

you lost your car? I didn't see that part of the articles on the scandal. Seriously - you have the exact same car you had a month ago. The 'scandal' has not changed a single thing about your purchase to this date.

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But but but, some people feel entitled. Simple as that

CraziFuzzy said:

you lost your car? I didn't see that part of the articles on the scandal. Seriously - you have the exact same car you had a month ago. The 'scandal' has not changed a single thing about your purchase to this date.

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I think you missed his point. Sure nothing has changed about the car. But when we all bought oir cars it was under implicit agreement that it meet legal requirements. Therefore the purchase itself was conducted fraudulently

Maybe its my background but when a manufacturer/business lies about something i care. And like the person you are quoting i would not buy my car again knowing what i know now. You think its ridiculous fine. I call what VW did fraud. If i could id invalidate all sales contracts of all affected vehicles upon owner request and make VW return the purchase price


Oh and yes i know. But every car manufacturer lies who could i deal with. You know honestly none. But im forced more or less to be someonea customer. But a spade is a spade and if we called this what it is and held them truly accountable maybe we would be better off.

30Bones said:

But but but, some people feel entitled. Simple as that

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That word is popping it's ugly head again......"entitled". It's the new American slogan!!!

Donald

30Bones said:

But but but, some people feel entitled. Simple as that

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Exactly. Once the blood is in the water, all the sharks come around for a free lunch. None of the complainers took even a cursory glance at NOx emissions before their purchase.

CraziFuzzy said:

you lost your car? I didn't see that part of the articles on the scandal. Seriously - you have the exact same car you had a month ago. The 'scandal' has not changed a single thing about your purchase to this date.

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As I said before, they committed fraud. If they had advertised in the beginning that their vehicles were not legal to buy in the U.S. (cause they knew this from the beginning) and if they had said in the beginning, "even though we said they were 'clean', weeeeelllll they really aren't cause we have some software to fix emissions for you" I would not have bought the car and I would think you wouldn't have either. Though, I am sure there is a group of people who still may have. People buy illegal things daily.

turbobrick240 said:

Exactly. Once the blood is in the water, all the sharks come around for a free lunch. None of the complainers took even a cursory glance at NOx emissions before their purchase.

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Don't blame the consumer for not taking a "glance at NOx emissions". EPA didn't either. And I am sure if the common public tried, we probably would of hit the software fix.

turbobrick240 said:

…..
None of the complainers took even a cursory glance at NOx emissions before their purchase.

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I never owned or knew much about diesels before my TDI.

I just knew I wanted one that did not blow smoke and did not use AdBlue.

Boy was I wrong.

jayemdaet said:

As I said before, they committed fraud. If they had advertised in the beginning that their vehicles were not legal to buy in the U.S. (cause they knew this from the beginning) and if they had said in the beginning, "even though we said they were 'clean', weeeeelllll they really aren't cause we have some software to fix emissions for you" I would not have bought the car and I would think you wouldn't have either. Though, I am sure there is a group of people who still may have. People buy illegal things daily.

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I never once said they didn't commit fraud, and I never once said they weren't liable for any damages they've caused - but you are the one that said you were damaged to the amount of the entire purchase price of the vehicle, which is just factually wrong.

I drove about 300 miles yesterday across Massachusetts and back, and whenever I saw a new TDI I was tempted to honk and give the driver a thumbs up. I think TDI drivers in general are well-intentioned, and I also think the impact of the additional pollution caused by the "fraud" is insignificant. I've been thinking about buying a new car in the next six months, and it'll definitely be a diesel, most likely a TDI. And I have no qualms about driving the ones I have: getting 49+ MPG like I did yesterday has to be better than getting 15-18 in an SUV, even if it does emit a bit more NOx.

If you feel you've been harmed financially join a class action. Or create your own lawsuit. Or dump the car and don't buy another VW.

roostre said:

I never owned or knew much about diesels before my TDI.
I just knew I wanted one that did not blow smoke and did not use AdBlue.
Boy was I wrong.

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How were you wrong? Your car doesn't blow smoke(assuming intact dpf) or use urea.

CraziFuzzy said:

I never once said they didn't commit fraud, and I never once said they weren't liable for any damages they've caused - but you are the one that said you were damaged to the amount of the entire purchase price of the vehicle, which is just factually wrong.

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Just to be sure we are all getting our facts straight, I had posted:
"I don't know about you but the damages I have incurred are not so much to my pride but that I have been defrauded."
and
"Yes, the price of the vehicle itself."
Which doesn't have the word "entire" anywhere. What has happened is fraud, my pride is not feeling one way or the other cause of this VW mess and people paid money for a product that is not as advertised. The Merriam-Webster dictionary states the word 'fraud' as, "the crime of using dishonest methods to take something valuable from another person" My money is valuable, is it not? Weren't they trying to use dishonest methods to take my money? Is it not damaging consumers when they are defrauded?

jayemdaet said:

Just to be sure we are all getting our facts straight, I had posted:
"I don't know about you but the damages I have incurred are not so much to my pride but that I have been defrauded."
and
"Yes, the price of the vehicle itself."
Which doesn't have the word "entire" anywhere. What has happened is fraud, my pride is not feeling one way or the other cause of this VW mess and people paid money for a product that is not as advertised. The Merriam-Webster dictionary states the word 'fraud' as, "the crime of using dishonest methods to take something valuable from another person" My money is valuable, is it not? Weren't they trying to use dishonest methods to take my money? Is it not damaging consumers when they are defrauded?

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Yes, you were defrauded. Nothing a good cry won't fix.

I'm kinda leaning more towards the "throw me some $$$$ to make me happy (make up for fuel economy and resale value decrease) and I'll just keep it" camp at the moment. We'll see though. I just hate the thought of having to go car shopping again.

turbobrick240 said:

How were you wrong? Your car doesn't blow smoke(assuming intact dpf) or use urea.

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A relative and original owner of a 2003 TDI “upgraded” to a 2013 TDI.

I could have had that car for one tenth the price of my new 2012 Golf.

EDIT: and since I do have a DPF, knowing what I know now, I would have preferred to use urea also.

turbobrick240 said:

Yes, you were defrauded.

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I'm glad you agree..

turbobrick240 said:

Nothing a good cry won't fix.

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Mmm.. Not so much..

roostre said:

A relative and original owner of a 2003 TDI “upgraded” to a 2013 TDI.
I could have had that car for one tenth the price of my new 2012 Golf.

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Sure. Then you would have had a great car that does blow smoke.

turbobrick240 said:

Sure. Then you would have had a great car that does blow smoke.

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And I would have felt comfortable working on it by myself in my own garage.

roostre said:

And I would have felt comfortable working on it by myself in my own garage.

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Not to mention the money you'd have saved. You definitely screwed the pooch on that one. I'm a bit mystified by the fact that it wouldn't meet half of your prime prerequisites though.