Mobil 1 ESP Formula

Derrel H Green

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Where can a person buy this special oil at a reasonable price?

Is it available in 5W-40 as well as 5W-30?

All the Mobiloil site says is that it is available at Chysler dealers.

Some others places must carry it, but where?
 
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JSWTDI09

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Good news! Any PepBoys store. $6.99/liter last time I bought some.

There is a 5w-40 version. It's called Mobil 1 ESP -M. It is the Mercedes spec (not VW) version. Both are available at PepBoys. The accepted (by many) logic is to use the 5-30 until the warranty is up (it's the VW approved one) and then use the 5-40 after that. You don't want to void your warranty.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=264559

Have Fun!

Don
 
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Derrel H Green

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An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Good Reply

Thanks Don.

Just got off the AVLube site and with shipping, a case of 12 bottles comes to almost $130.

Now the question is . .
Do I change it out now at 3K miles to get some of that break-in debris out or wait like I'm supposed
to 'till 10K and try not to think about all those metal particles being circulated about.

I guess perhaps I'm worrying about nothing?
 

JSWTDI09

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Derrel H Green said:
Do I change it out now at 3K miles to get some of that break-in debris out or wait like I'm supposed
to 'till 10K and try not to think about all those metal particles being circulated about.

I guess perhaps I'm worrying about nothing?
There are a few threads about this (and I'm no expert), but what has been said is that early oil changes are not necessary and might actually increase wear. The oil filter should catch any particles and the oil actually becomes a better lubricant with time. All the experts recommend waiting 'till 10,000 miles. Many people have done used oil analysis at 5,000 and 10,000 and they see no significant differences. Modern synthetic motor oils are very different from what we used to have. They are designed for long life. The only reason VWoA recommend 10,000 OCIs is to make a little money in the service departments. These same engines have a much longer oil change interval in Europe. Life has many other more worthy things to worry about, if you must worry.

Have Fun!

Don
 

Derrel H Green

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An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
Thanks and I Agree

It's just that I ran an analysis at a little over 3k miles on my then new Hyundai Azera
back in October '07 when I had changed it and the report from Blackstone
Laboratories came back that the original factory fill oil was indeed filthy.
I've read here how some of the gurus were saying to not change the CR TDI until 10K,
one of them even saying that the factory 'original fill' had a special break-in oil.
I will simply 'tough it out' and wait 'til 10K and draw a sample before I go to the dealer for my first change.
Thanks again.
 

ruking

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I am sure there are a host of reasons why in the US market VW recommends very short 10,000 miles OCI's, but if you read the specifications on the VW 507.00, VW recommends up to 50,000 KM (31,068 miles) even oil vendors like Total are in "STRICT" compliance with the VW 507.00 specifications. http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/FichePDF/lang_1/5833.pdf

Mobil meets the same "STRICT" compliance with the VW 507.00 specifications. It probably advertises its 50,000 (31,068 miles) in Europe. In the US market that is almost totally downplayed in favor of "meets/exceeds oem interval guidelines"

To cut to the chase M1 ESP 5w40 MB 229.51 specification (especially) @ 6.99 per L is turning out to be one of the best bang for the bux oils for our low saps TDI's.

For VW warranty purposes (as remote as a VW engine failure is, due to a PROVE ABLE oil cause is), sure you want to stay with the VW 507.00 version: Mobil One 5w30 ESP VW 507.00.

I got a load of Total INEO 5w30 VW 507.00 before the Mobil One ESP products were commonly available (one distributor in the NATION and that was IF they could get it) . The plan is to go through that first, before going to the Mobil One 5w40.

I have been running Delvac One 5w40 (aka Mobil One 5w40 TDT) in an 03 ALH TDI. In hind sight, bang for the buck is good here @ 4.88 per qt. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy, I ONLY run 25,000 miles OCI's !!! :) What a light weight eh?
 
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T_D_I_POWER

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silverbox said:
TDIPower are the VOA's the same but for viscosity on the 2 M1esp products?
I haven't done the VOA of the M1 ESP FM 5W-40.

But the spec for this oil is higher than the M1 ESP 5W-30


Typical Properties
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30

HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC, ASTM D4683 3.58

Typical Properties
Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40
HTHS Viscosity, mPas @ 150ºC, ASTM D4683 3.80
 

ruking

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I am sure some one has done the "consumer side" real world testing. It is normally documented on bobistheoilguy.com, most likely in the VOA section. For absolutely sure you can find the Mobil One documentation on their web site. https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30

SAE Grade5W-30Viscosity, ASTM D 445 cSt @ 40ºC 72.8cSt @ 100ºC 12.1Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 164Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.6HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC, ASTM D46833.58Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 254Density @ 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.850

Typical Properties

Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5W-40

SAE Grade 5W-40Viscosity, ASTM D 445 cSt @ 40ºC 81.1cSt @ 100ºC 13.35Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 167Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 0.63HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, ASTM D46833,8Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -39Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 236Density @ 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.85
 
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Kier

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Stick with the recommended oil at least throughout your warranty period. I have been using Mobil-1 ESP 5W-30 504.00/507.00 for the past 4 oil changes. You can purchase this product at Pep Boys for $6.99 per liter. I did buy from AV Lubricants for a much higher price until Pep Boys began to carry this oil. I may switch to the 5W-40 offering which is MB 229.3 approved after my warranty expires. You will never win against VW if you elect to run a non-approved oil and have an engine related failure. Even if the non-approved oils are better.
 

Drivbiwire

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Considering that it's $26K for the motor alone, I stuck with the 10K interval (actually 9193 since the service indicator triggered) on the first change (just like the manual recomends) and did not short change it. I want my motors to break in as intended and as designed.

Here is the post change oil sample:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/ML_9193_Engine_Oil_cr.pdf

I have been getting my oil at the MB dealer (Mobil 1 5w40 ESP Formula M). I bring in my cleaned and empty AdBlue jugs and they fill them
up for me. They have been selling the oil to me for $4.50 a liter...Of course that's buying 5 gallons at a time.
 
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Derrel H Green

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An '05 MBZ E-320 CDI (W-211) replaced the '10 TDI JSW
No Longer for $6.99

Kier said:
I have been using Mobil-1 ESP [Formula M] 5W-30 504.00/507.00 for the past 4 oil changes.
You can purchase this product at Pep Boys for $6.99 per liter. I did buy from AV Lubricants
for a much higher price until Pep Boys began to carry this oil. I may switch to
the 5W-40 offering which is MB 229.3 approved after my warranty expires.
Went to the Temecula Pep Boys this morning, and their price for Mobil 1 ESP Formula M is now $7.99.
Mobil 1 Oil Filters have gone up also. What has happened to the good deals Pep Boys used to have?
They have a special offering five quarts of regular Mobil 1 including a Mobil 1 Oil filter for $29,
but when I asked, the Mobil-1 ESP Formula M oil we need to use is not included. Of course!
Pep Boys does stock Mobil-1 ESP Formula M in both 5W-30 and 5W-40.

Does anyone know where a person can buy Mobil-1 ESP Formula M for a more reasonable price? Thanks.
 

Derrel H Green

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AdBlue Fluid

Drivbiwire said:
I bring in my cleaned and empty AdBlue jugs and they fill them up for me. They have
been selling the oil to me for $4.50 a liter...Of course that's buying 5 gallons at a time.
I'm wondering how much you are having to pay for your 'AdBlue' fluid?
 

Drivbiwire

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$13.00 for 2.5 gallons (including Tax).

The ML is using about 5 gallons every 10K, the GL is about the same.

I use the VW fluid, truck stops are now starting to sell it and they are about the same price as VW.

My MB dealer is getting a bulk dispenser, and they think that they can refill my jugs for a bit less than what I am getting it at VW for. FYI, the Adblue requires a special plastic to prevent fluid contamination, I recomend keeping the Adblue jugs and reuse them after flushing with distilled or RO filtered water.

The Adblue has been a COMPLETE non-issue, easy to fill, cheap and easily justified with the vast improvement in fuel economy over any gasser option. The other aspect is that the system has two catalysts vs the VW's 3 so fewer components to wear out over time. The Adblue injection system is very simple and easily access via Xentry (MB diagnostics) and records the full operation history that can be downloaded at each service interval. They also have a heating system to prevent the fluid from freezing.

I would not hesitate buying another Adblue vehicle given how easy and inexpensive it has been for us to maintain. Honestly, windshield washer is about as hard to service...seriously.

The only technical spec that has to be observed is that the solution is not allowed to drop below 31.5%, below this the solution is not effective. MB sells a test kit that can be used to check the concentration, kit costs about $300....Or you can just run the system down near empty, purge the system of the remaining old fluid (every 20K) and start fresh with 32.5% new fluid and pass on the test kit.
 

Cool Breeze

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Derrel H Green said:
Where can a person buy this special oil at a reasonable price?

Is it available in 5W-40 as well as 5W-30?

All the Mobiloil site says is that it is availabe at Chysler dealers.

Some others places must carry it, but where?
I've been thinking about the 5w-40, and noticed that there isn't that large of a difference in viscosity between the 30 and 40 @ 100C, but the 5w-40 is noticably thicker @40C. Something to keep in mind.
 
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ruking

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The key points have been:

1. the 5w40 has shown itself to get a good % less wear metals than the 5w30 in UOA testing.

2. There is of course a usual % loss in mpg, which of course can/does vary.
 
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dieselpower04

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ruking said:
The key points have been:

1. the 5w40 has shown itself to get a good % less wear metals than the 5w30 in UOA testing.

2. There is of course a usual % loss in mpg, which of course can/does vary.
And this applies to PD's too? :eek:
 

ruking

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Direct answer to the quote: YES.

PD's have grown and evolved to be an "interesting" group. ( MY 2004 to 2006.5?) My op/ed is while the ESP products are in fact according to VW 507.00 specifications BACK WARD compatible VW 507.00, the PD really does not need/require the low saps portion/specification. So personally, the PC advice would be to go with the oil specification @ that time, listed in the oem owner's manual.

However, I along with a few intrepid souls came out in favor of using the Mobil One 5w40 TDT. We were of course and probably predictably, roundly vilified. :eek: :p I might add, I do not/nor never have had a PD, (but an 03 ALH, 133,000 miles). So as you can see, I have no skin in the PD game. However, a few intrepid AND pioneering souls actually started using Mobil One 5w40 TDT (CI-4/+ and there is a CJ version), conducting UOA's and publishing it on threads like these on this web site. It shows much less wear percentage wise than the RECOMMENDED VW specification oil.

So for example, if the low saps specification cost 6.99 to 7.99 and if Mobil One 5w40 TDT costs 4.88 (not sure of the current prices), given the oem specifications at the time and variables: I know what I would do. Ah, $4.88 if you know what I mean ! :D

So having said all that, the overwhelming percentage of folks who have EXPERIENCED "excessive" PD cam wear were in FULL compliance, using the CORRECT and recommended specification oils @ the time!!!. Indeed USE of Mobil One 5w40 TDT will at worst starve off the wear and it will NOT prevent it, IF that example is going down that path. Even Mobil One oil as good as it is, is no cure for ...poor camshaft design and less than optimum execution. To present the other side of the discussion VW would completely deny poor camshaft design and less than optimum execution.
 
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dieselpower04

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ruking said:
Direct answer to the quote: YES.

PD's have grown and evolved to be an "interesting" group. ( MY 2004 to 2006.5?) My op/ed is while the ESP products are in fact according to VW 507.00 specifications BACK WARD compatible VW 507.00, the PD really does not need/require the low saps portion. So personally, the PC advice would be to go with the oil specification @ that time, listed in the oem owner's manual. However, I along with a few intrepid souls came out in favor of using the Mobil One 5w40 TDT. We were of course and probably predictably, roundly vilified. :eek: :p I might add, I do not/nor never have a PD but an 03 ALH (133,000 miles). However a few intrepid AND pioneering souls actually started using Mobil One 5w40 TDT, conducting UOA's and publishing it on threads like these on this web site. It show less much less wear percentage wise than the RECOMMENDED VW specification oil.

So for example if the low saps cost 6.99 to 7.99 and if Mobil One 5w40 costs 4.88 (not sure of the current prices) Given the specifications and variables I know what I would do. Ah, $4.88 if you know what I mean ! :D

So having said all that, the overwhelming percentage of folks who have EXPERIENCE excessive PD cam wear were in full compliance using the CORRECT and recommended specification oils !!!. Indeed USE of Mobil One 5w40 TDT will at best starve off the wear and it will NOT prevent it, IF that example is going down that path.
Yeah its very confusing to me. I have always used ELF/Total 505.01 5w30 and last time my VC was off...I didn't like what I saw. Just checking because when I replace my cam (Colts Stage II) I will switch to the 5w40 TDT Mobile stuff. :eek:
 

tditom

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Derrel H Green said:
Went to the Temecula Pep Boys this morning, and their price for Mobil 1 ESP Formula M is now $7.99.
Mobil 1 Oil Filters have gone up also. What has happened to the good deals Pep Boys used to have?
They have a special offering five quarts of regular Mobil 1 including a Mobil 1 Oil filter for $29,
but when I asked, the Mobil-1 ESP Formula M oil we need to use is not included. Of course!
Pep Boys does stock Mobil-1 ESP Formula M in both 5W-30 and 5W-40.

Does anyone know where a person can buy Mobil-1 ESP Formula M for a more reasonable price? Thanks.
I'd guess $8/L is about the best you'll find.

You are sticking with the 5W30 until out of warranty, right?
 

Derrel H Green

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Yes Indeed

tditom said:
I'd guess $8/L is about the best you'll find.
You are sticking with the 5W30 until out of warranty, right?
I think the containers at Pep Boys were quarts, not liters.
Don't want to risk any problems with warranty coverage, so will stick with 5W-30 as recommended by VW.
 

roy1

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ruking said:
I am sure there are a host of reasons why in the US market VW recommends very short 10,000 miles OCI's, but if you read the specifications on the VW 507.00, VW recommends up to 50,000 KM (31,068 miles) even oil vendors like Total are in "STRICT" compliance with the VW 507.00 specifications. http://www.lubadmin.com/upload/produit/FichePDF/lang_1/5833.pdf

Mobil meets the same "STRICT" compliance with the VW 507.00 specifications. It probably advertises its 50,000 (31,068 miles) in Europe.
50,000 meilen oel wechseln ? Das ist wahnsinn!!! Total wahnsinn!!!!
 

ruking

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I take it you have read the product data sheets.:p
 

roy1

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ruking said:
I take it you have read the product data sheets.:p
Yes I have , but VAG does not recommend 50,000 km oil changes in Europe at least not in the owner manuals I have seen for TDI's. If you have something to the contrary that is empirical , by all means push it out .
 

tditom

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roy1 said:
50,000 meilen oel wechseln ? Das ist wahnsinn!!! Total wahnsinn!!!!
nein- 50.000 KM (nur 31K meilen). Und nur im Europa wo der kraftstoff ist viel besser als hier.
 

willafb

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OK well i am an american living here in Germany... Here is the deal with OCI with VW here...

older vehicals without oil sensors is 15,000 KM
newer vehicles 2 years or 30,000KM
 
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