Has anyone returned a stripped TDI yet?

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 3, 2017

^^^^^^^^^

Agreed

peterdaniel · Jul 3, 2017

PacCoastFwy923 said:
Wrong-O. Show me where in the settlement it says that.

They're buying back a car they once sold, and has been owned / maintained / modified (within reason) / used.

Under your interpretation, lack of (dealer) maintenance would be a deduction, lack of any maintenance records whatsoever would be a huge deduction, just reading your signature leads to all kinds of questions how they might theoretically devalue your car.

Again, we're talking about a straight VW for VW seat swap in this case, not slapping in a bench seat from a 1975 Datsun pickup truck.

(EDIT) I was just thinking back to when I sold my TSX back to an Acura dealer, after 6 months of owning it. I bought it used with 8,000 miles on it, CPO. It had been a service loaner. Naturally, it had been maintained at the dealership while they had it, and it was in great condition. As it turned out, I really disliked that car. When I approached a local dealership to inquire about buying it from me, the CPO was very important to them. I had installed nice looking Enkei wheels on it, to get away from the traditional Acura 5-spoke look, with Bridgstone Driveguard run flat tires. Thankfully I had the stock wheels bagged up in the garage, because the dealer placed more value on stock wheels than aftermarket (so he could resell it as a CPO -- stock wheels is a requirement). I had my one oil change done at a local Honda dealership, so technically (to him) it was serviced within the Honda/Acura family. He didn't catch that the replacement windshield was OEE, and I wasn't purposely deceptive about this; it didn't cross my mind and he didn't check. Point being, this all factored in to the negotiations as to how much he would pay me for the car, and this is exactly NOT the situation with the VW settlement. I suppose the settlement could have included a checklist with standardized deductions for modifications, wear, lack of records, etc., but it doesn't. It's a straight buyback amount with certain criteria (some fuzzily defined) to be met, and nothing more should be read in to that agreement (by either side).

I full on agree that aftermarket windshield and wheels should be excluded.. but what we are seeing and talking about is something completely different. Different seats? Seriously? Thats not acceptable because the seat that was engineered for that car and its safety systems is not what is going back in there. Windshield and aftermarket wheels that are DOT approved are fine.. I wouldnt put it past any of the yahoos on this site or otherwise to put in some bench seat from a 75 Datsun.

And my car for that matter is perfectly stock looking. You cant tell I ever did anything and nothing I have done affects safety... But that doesnt really matter. I dont have to do anything emissions wise and VW isnt buying my car back nor is it for sale right now anyways. And yes, it has the stock seats

peterdaniel · Jul 3, 2017

and honestly, why are ANY of you still here after you sold your car back? If you hate VW so much, why not leave and stay away?
You wont really be missed.

PacCoastFwy923 · Jul 3, 2017

So if you can't see the mod, that makes it ok? Listen to you.

And who hates VW?

peterdaniel · Jul 3, 2017

I listen to me all the time and when I start talking like you guys that feel its perfectly ok to swap out something as safety oriented as a seat, I know Ive lost my mind.

And so many of you that bash VW, thats fine.. you can take the money but please, go away. Dont need to hear all the whining and complaining.

GoFaster · Jul 4, 2017

peterdaniel said:
Different seats? Seriously? Thats not acceptable because the seat that was engineered for that car and its safety systems is not what is going back in there.

Lots of seats are compatible between vehicles of the same manufacturer and can be freely interchanged without affecting crash compliance - because they're designed to be freely interchanged without affecting crash compliance. Seat rails and attachment points to the bodyshell are in the same places and the electrical connectors are all the same if this is the case. Want GTI seats in your base Golf of the same generation? No problem, swap away. Want leather seats in place of fabric? No problem, they're all designed to be compliant.

I just don't know whether that's the case between the Mk5-Mk6 Golf and the Mk6 Jetta sedan. I tend to suspect that it is, because these vehicles were concurrently manufactured, but verifying this requires measurements and inspections.

The manufacturers do it this way intentionally because it minimizes tooling changes at the supplier end.

One of my customers has more than 200 different part numbers for steering wheels that all go into "the same" vehicle. Different colours, different spoke patterns, some have switches for bluetooth etc and others don't depending on trim level, etc. They're all "compliant" as far as safety standards are concerned. They will all fit in any vehicle of this type. Might not work with the gizmos and gadgets if you put it in a vehicle of a non-matching trim level but there's no issue for airbags etc.

peterdaniel · Jul 5, 2017

Two wrongs dont make a right.. Funny how the biggest complainers and whiners about how "illegal" and "terrible" VW is for killing millions of people would have no problem with being unethical in returning the car.

Oh well... Karma is still alive and well.

PacCoastFwy923 · Jul 5, 2017

Funny how the only one currently whining and complaining is...

But I think it's an honest debate to be had -- what crosses the ethical line, what's ok within the framework of the settlement, what's an overreach by VW.

I also agree that "unethical" and "within the terms of the agreement" can unhappily coexist. I just happen to believe your interpretation of what's dishonest is far too strict and limiting to an owner. If this was about a lease return, I'd agree with you on the seat swap, but because of the contract, not the settlement.

An owner is entitled to treat the car as something they own, not something they're borrowing.

turbobrick240 · Jul 6, 2017

PacCoastFwy923 said:
Funny how the only one currently whining and complaining is...

But I think it's an honest debate to be had -- what crosses the ethical line, what's ok within the framework of the settlement, what's an overreach by VW.

I also agree that "unethical" and "within the terms of the agreement" can unhappily coexist. I just happen to believe your interpretation of what's dishonest is far too strict and limiting to an owner. If this was about a lease return, I'd agree with you on the seat swap, but because of the contract, not the settlement.

An owner is entitled to treat the car as something they own, not something they're borrowing.

I agree that right and wrong behavior is a little murky here. Yes, people have the right to do want they want with their cars, but VW also has the right to turn them away. Take the guy who completely stripped his car. Unethical, yes- illegal, no. Did he get his big payout? No. It is up to individuals if they want to behave ethically or only within the framework of the law.

maybe368 · Jul 6, 2017

peterdaniel said:
Two wrongs dont make a right.. Funny how the biggest complainers and whiners about how "illegal" and "terrible" VW is for killing millions of people would have no problem with being unethical in returning the car.

Oh well... Karma is still alive and well.

For a seemingly high and mighty moralist, sitting on the highest horse that I have ever seen, you don't seem to have a problem violating federal and state laws with the illegal modifications that you have done to the car in your sig.. Typical

...Mark

PacCoastFwy923 · Jul 6, 2017

turbobrick240 said:
I agree that right and wrong behavior is a little murky here. Yes, people have the right to do want they want with their cars, but VW also has the right to turn them away. Take the guy who completely stripped his car. Unethical, yes- illegal, no. Did he get his big payout? No. It is up to individuals if they want to behave ethically or only within the framework of the law.

You don't have an argument from me on that character -- he was clearly testing limits, and made his car inoperable. That wasn't an ethical dilemma, nor a legal one.

This particular dust-up that brought this long dormant thread back from the grave is "stripping out" a 2010 VW seat, and replacing it with a (much newer condition) 2015 VW seat (IF it fits). Very different scenario, very far from murky.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 6, 2017

maybe368 said:
For a seemingly high and mighty moralist, sitting on the highest horse that I have ever seen, ,,, snip... don't seem to have a problem violating federal and state laws with the illegal modifications .... snip..... .Mark

At the risk of .... whatever...

IMO

MODs might-could-may-can be illegal. I just do not understand the FED, State laws

All I know for sure is:

No MODs for my car, for fear I might loose my 11 year, 162,000 mile warranty

maybe368 · Jul 6, 2017

2015vwgolfdiesel said:
At the risk of .... whatever...

IMO

MODs might-could-may-can be illegal. I just do not understand the FED, State laws

All I know for sure is:

No MODs for my car, for fear I might loose my 11 year, 162,000 mile warranty

It is against federal and state law to alter, remove or change in any way the emission control equipment on a vehicle:

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clean-air-act-vehicle-and-engine-enforcement-case-resolutions

https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/mobilesource/vetech/tampering.html

The second is from Texas, but all or most states have similar laws. One cannot pick and chose which laws to obey, especially if one is going to take the moral high ground in such a strong fashion...Mark

2015vwgolfdiesel · Jul 6, 2017

maybe368 said:
It is against federal and state law to alter, remove or change in any way the emission control equipment on a vehicle:

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clean-air-act-vehicle-and-engine-enforcement-case-resolutions

https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airquality/mobilesource/vetech/tampering.html

The second is from Texas, but all or most states have similar laws. One cannot pick and chose which laws to obey, especially if one is going to take the moral high ground in such a strong fashion...Mark

You said it better than I.

turbobrick240 · Jul 6, 2017

PacCoastFwy923 said:
You don't have an argument from me on that character -- he was clearly testing limits, and made his car inoperable. That wasn't an ethical dilemma, nor a legal one.
This particular dust-up that brought this long dormant thread back from the grave is "stripping out" a 2010 VW seat, and replacing it with a (much newer condition) 2015 VW seat (IF it fits). Very different scenario, very far from murky.

I was just speaking about the broader subject of swapping and stripping- not this particular seat case. From my own viewpoint, swapping seats isn't a huge deal. The guy who completely stripped his car thought that because it met his defintion of operable, he was golden. Wrong. There is a line somewhere- before making the car legally inoperable , that is too far.

Has anyone returned a stripped TDI yet?

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