ALH Power

See the mods I have in my sig. Just curious for others who have similar mods on how your power kicks in.
I pretty much need to get up to 20-25 lbs of boost before I get any kind of feel of power kicking in, and 2800-3000 RPM. And I don't really get that little burst of power that the VNT 15 used to put out. Maybe I'm getting too used to different way the power is delivered with my set up.
Another thing, when I try to get on the power ( let say at 2500 rpm...and at higher revs ) the turbo chirps and when the chirp goes away the power is more evident.
What's are your thoughts on this? I just feel like I need more fuel possibly with the tune. No smoke at all.

What's your exhaust pressure doing?

I've run a very similar setup and I'm guessing that your actuator is really loose which would cause a big exhaust pressure spike. You've got boost, however, no mass air flow until the vanes open up then the power comes on.

Has this setup ever worked for you? Are we diagnosing a known good setup that's run well before or is this a new assembly of parts that's never been run before?

Sounds like poor ECU tune. You need to have an custom tune for your setup.

Not sure on how I need to check the exhaust pressure. But it's 3" and about 5 months old and seems to be working with proper flow.
This system I have I would say has been working well from the time it's been installed. But I might need to check the actuator, it builds boost right up to 30 PSI right away, but it's like it takes about 4 seconds before you feel the power come in..
I have a MAFless tune and just wanted to try a cone filter in the last few weeks, which now I can really hear the intake sounds very well. So when I get on it WOT you can hear the turbo chirping and the lower the RPM the worse it is. I know the 17/22 doesn't like low RPM but starting to rev at 2800 shouldn't be too low I wouldn't think.
It's felt like the power has been good but yesterday I ran against a 2014 GTI with just a pipe and he pulled me without effort, and I thought hmm maybe I'm not putting down the numbers that I thought. I was hoping I would put down about 190 HP and 340 torque.
I put Turbinewines ECU in my car back when we installed everything because it felt like it was low on power down low, and it made a big difference ( RC 6...or X ) . But he has race 520's and a 12mm pump, that's the only difference.
Is the turbo issue pretty common with everybody?

I run about the same setup but with Mikes tune TDTUNING in my racecar.
Here is video of the car on the track if you look to the second to last gauge is boost it shoots to 25 LB likes it nothing.
https://youtu.be/ki2jzXK3v6A
We can lug it down to 2000 RPM in a turn and it pulls hard all the way to 5000 RPM with very little smoke.

Nice! Makes me jealous, I would love to do a track day with mine.

Am I close on what my HP/TQ expectations are? Guess I need to ride in a car with mods closer to what I have.

How about the turbo chirp?

I'm tuned for pretty much each upgrade I have.

terrydtdi - your setup should yield a very responsive, low smoke 170HP/300ft-lbf so something is definitely up with your setup.

I guess I'm still not clear on weather this setup has run well for you and you're now noticing a change in power delivery or if it's always run this way and you're wanting it to run better?

Exhaust pressures I'm referring to are between the engine and the turbo having nothing really to do with the exhaust system after the turbo. Just like reading boost pressure, but in a different location. If you use your boost gauge, be careful as exhaust pressures can easily be 2x boost pressures (especially if something's off in the system). Go easy on the throttle until you see what it's going to do. A 60 psi glycerin filled hydraulic pressure gauge is a good one to use for exhaust pressures.

That turbo should be more/less fully spooled up and power delivered at 1800 RPM and have less than 1 second of "lag" from off throttle and much less than 1 second if there's some load on the system when you get on the throttle.

Check the actuator and insure it starts to move at 3-5 inHg

I assume Jeff is aware of all your modifications and the tune is setup accordingly? I don't prefer maf-less tunes as they seem to be a bit more laggy than MAF based ones along with more transient smoke on tip in. This is not likely the cause of your issues though (the maf-less tunes are slightly slower, not drastically).

RC5 and RC6 are significantly different - 6 pulls much harder in the low RPM's than 5 does (I have both tunes).

Another thing to check is your injection pump case pressure relief valve to insure the ring is not sticking out. This will kill your low RPM power as well as it can't advance injection timing sufficiently. Easy to check wiith VCDS - is actual timing = requested timing or not? If so, your case relief is not likely the issue.

Some of the 17/22's chirp on spool up - Mine never did, but others do. Near as I know, it's not much of an issue except for the noise.

Yeah Jeff set up my tune specifically for my mods.

When we originally installed the turbo the actuator moved at between 3-5 inHg and felt like where it was we were good.

For your question on the history, I guess it's kind of run this way, that's why we tried the RC6 ECU and really liked the way it pulled down low. I still have the stock rods and Jeff was concerned about bending them. I plan to upgrade to IE rods next TB job and go with R520's, then RC6.

Tomorrow I'll try to check the actuator and check with VCDS the pump pressure.

The car does run well but I'm just feeling like it should be putting out a little more power especially down low. I thought it should be putting down more than 170/300. With Sprint 520's, RC3 Euro, VNT15, stock size open exhaust pipe, pd150 intake/race pipe, I dyno'd it at 140/280. Jeff thought I should be closer to 185-190/320-340 with my current set up.

Mine dos chirp some times.
Below is my last dyno test the blue line is on diesel the red is with 20% CNG added


We keep the tune a bit on the safe side we run Chump 4 to 7 HR races. And get 15 MPG from this setup

terrydtdi said:

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This system I have I would say has been working well from the time it's been installed. But I might need to check the actuator, it builds boost right up to 30 PSI right away, but it's like it takes about 15 seconds before the pressure builds in the system before the power finally comes in.
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Emphasis mine above - can you clarify this please? Do you get 30 psi right away or does it take 15 seconds to build (boost?) pressure?

If this is really 15 seconds, there's a big glaring issue somewhere that should be easy to find/fix.

What RPM and driving conditions are you having this issue?

You can run RC6 with stock bottom end parts, but that low end power is due to some pretty significant peak cylinder pressures (no way around that) which can put a kink in your rods.

To be clear, you can't directly check the pump case pressure with VCDS. You can check requested vs actual timing during a 3rd gear WOT run and if they agree, you're case relief is likely fine. If not, it could need to be re-seated or your static timing could be quite retarded.

Power and torque numbers depend a lot on the dyno you're using. The numbers you're looking for are typical numbers you'd get from a DynoJet (which have a reputation for reading high). Regardless of what the numbers are/are not - what matters is if you're happy with how the car performs.

In my experience, a 17/22, R520's, 11mm and RC6 should be as responsive as your VNT15, Sprint 520's and RC3, below ~2200 RPM but have much more mid range and top end power for the same smoke level.

I apologize on the amount of time. It will boost to 30 psi instantly ( on the gauge) but the power you feel from that high boost seems to take about 3-4 seconds or so after the boost is applied.

As far as driving conditions this is typical when initially getting on high boost, and I usually try to keep the RPM's a little higher at around 2600-2800, it will pull all the way past 5000.

I hope to get it on a Dyno soon to see where it's at.

I'm going to run some test tomorrow and see what I can come up with.

I appreciate the help, thank you

I went back with the VR6 airbox and MAF tonight and it actually run better. So trying to go MAFless it didn't run as well.

Hi Terry,
It should run the same with or without maf. Running without will be in open loop and may smoke more and be slightly stronger off the line (without smoke attenuation).

Do you have neutered injector bodies from DBW? They should be popping at 220/300 bar (not 240/260).

Sounds like you don't have the fuel normally given with those tips. What is your IQ idling hot? Try running it at 1.5 and let me know if it smokes. Send me logs of 001, 004, and 011, and 001, 008, and 011 for a strong 3rd gear pull.

I have seen #3 injector throwing off the timing. Make sure your cam-to-crank timing is spot on. If it is advance it will run hot and dial back fueling at 95-100 degC. I'll see this in your logs.
Jeff

185/315 at the wheels with a very similar setup and RC6. Big issue is EGTs with that much fuel, especially on the track. But it was quick, powerful enough to break the tires loose in 4th on a damp road.

jsrmonster said:

Hi Terry,
It should run the same with or without maf. Running without will be in open loop and may smoke more and be slightly stronger off the line (without smoke attenuation).

Do you have neutered injector bodies from DBW? They should be popping at 220/300 bar (not 240/260).

Sounds like you don't have the fuel normally given with those tips. What is your IQ idling hot? Try running it at 1.5 and let me know if it smokes. Send me logs of 001, 004, and 011, and 001, 008, and 011 for a strong 3rd gear pull.

I have seen #3 injector throwing off the timing. Make sure your cam-to-crank timing is spot on. If it is advance it will run hot and dial back fueling at 95-100 degC. I'll see this in your logs.
Jeff

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Hi Jeff, I'm out of town right and my car is at home. There was actually a very noticeable power difference with the airbox back in, and MAF connected...much stronger all the way through. With the airbox back on you can't hear any chirping it does quite everything down.

Landon and I just installed the PP764's in my old bodies. We had a little trouble with the #1 injector popping and ended up using an extra body Landon had on hand. Possibly I should send them off to DBW with some other extra bodies I have to get them dialed in better.

Last time I checked my timing it was spot on, and with the 11mm IP being a fresh factory rebuild there is no cloud at all.

I'll check the IQ and adjust to what you're recommending, and try to get some logs sent to you. It will probably be next Tuesday or so before I get a chance to.

Thanks for chiming in.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

185/315 at the wheels with a very similar setup and RC6. Big issue is EGTs with that much fuel, especially on the track. But it was quick, powerful enough to break the tires loose in 4th on a damp road.

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Peter, if my numbers are close to there I guess I can't complain, that's not to shabby.

If you have mafless tune and egr removed, attaching or deattaching maf will not affect ANYthing.