Discussion: Cbea head upgrade

I have been searching everywhere for info on upgrading the head on my CBEA motor and there is very little out there i can find.. the most i have found is from TDIsyncro build that is very hard to understand after you read all 48 pages unless your a gear monkey. I am wanting to get help on what i can do to improve my head try to keep it documented so others can have an easy to go to article on how to upgrade there CR engine...

FYI.... I KNOW VERY LITTLE WHEN IT COMES TO CYLINDER HEAD LANGUAGE SO I AM GOING TO TRY AND BREAK IT DOWN BARNY STYLE FOR MORE TO UNDERSTAND...

Not one response? Bummer.
Im also interested in upgrading the head on my CR but I have a CJAA. Dont know if there is a difference that will stop me from being able to do this but I would like to because my factory head cracked so I might as well upgrade.

From your sig , it appears you currently have a stage 2 tune. Do you have future plans for a stage 4 setup? If not, I don't see the need for headwork. My understanding is that headwork is pretty tough on these heads due to the 4 valve design and central fuel injector. IE not much room to hog out around the valve seats. I'm not sure if the european gtd head is any different than ours, but that might be an option. Or there might be a more aggressive camshaft available somewhere. Ryan at Darkside developments would probably be a good person to ask.

Get more fuel....worry about air later. Most of these cars even modified are lackluster at best in comparison to the old cars. Once the fuel issue is resolved...then there will be need for more air. There are lots of options for headwork...but most wont pay what it cost.

lackluster?!

A stage 5 PD or VE barely puts you in range of a stage 2 or 3 CR.

Depends on who builds it. And tell me...how is it that one can use an ALH to make 300 hp no problem with 11,000 psi fuel pressure and 5 holes...but cant do the same or better with more than double the fuel pressure and 8 holes? Couple that with a better breathing engine as well as better cylinder pressure characteristics..... The old cars are old...but its easy to make good useable power...even useless power is easy. The new ones...not so much...yet, despite their superiority in so many areas.

It's true that there are currently a lot more 300+ hp alh and pd tdi's than cr. A lot more. But there are also a lot more of them, and the aftermarket performance parts sector has had a lot more time to develop and roll out those parts. It won't be long before the modified cr tdi's are eclipsing the older cars in power and efficiency.

gloaming said:

lackluster?!

A stage 5 PD or VE barely puts you in range of a stage 2 or 3 CR.

Click to expand...

People really need to stop using 'stages' as a measure of power. It makes no sense at all.

Yay! I started a meaningful conversation. Lol.
Turbobrick240- I would like to go with the stage 4 setup sooner or later but right now, I'm looking at the stage 3+ cr170 turbo with the cp3 fuel pump. The main reason Im looking into getting a big port head is because my factory head cracked for some unknown reason. No, it didn't over heat. All I can figure is that is was a bad casting. Along with the turbo and fuel pump upgrade, I'll be getting a Wagner tuning FMIC. Not that those upgrades merit a big port head, but again, mine factory head cracked so why not upgrade now?
If not bigger valves then just bigger ports. If anything, I was hoping another head had steeper ports for better flow characteristics.
I was also considering a more aggressive cam(s) but hadnt found much. If and we head isn't benificial in any of the above mention ways, Im just going to get a replacement from the dealer and that will come with cams so I wont be getting aftermarket cams.
LNXGUY- I'll second that.

Has anyone put one of these heads on a flow bench and looked at flow and swirl?

On the 8v heads, it's really difficult to improve flow without killing swirl at low/medium valve lifts.

See this thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=307098

A stage 3+ malone tune won't really benefit from a ported head imo. But it wouldn't be hard for you to gasket match the ports with a die grinder if you really wanted to. Stuff rags in if you do to keep debris out of the head. The point about swirl is a good one. I would just slap a new/used head on there.

Maddness:

There was someone selling a CBEA head a month or so ago in the private for sale items. You can check that out and maybe you can get a better deal than from the dealer. Or you can pick up an extra and port it (see how that goes).

EDIT: NVMD. It sold and was apparently warped

Somebody is trying to sell me a ported head.
This is his sales pitch.

" he head is the only thing used. It had 35k on it before someone crashed the car and cracked the block. Prices I'm just looking to break even. These parts are very rare there was only 5 cams made, three sets of valves, and cam springs.

Ported head $1000
Os valves $450
Dual vs $350
Pp foreground cam $780

Assembly is at cost, ill throw in a discount of 300 and free USA shipping if bought all together. I also have rods, a 2060vklr turbo kit I build (20k mi) and a whole bunch of other goodies to support it. Car was hitting 250whp and really needed the fueling for more. I think 350 is possible for this build.

I dont know him or hardly anything about CRs. I sure dont recognize any of those vendors.

Any assistance here? Does it sound legit?

CJAA.

The cams were regrouped by colt cams. The valves were custom done by him and another forum member. Valve springs were custom done by a company in Hungary and he did the porting himself.

I think im going to pass on it.

LNXGUY said:

People really need to stop using 'stages' as a measure of power. It makes no sense at all.

Click to expand...

Ok fair enough. My point was that the highest non custom tune for a CR is already surpasses that of the highest non custom tuned VE or PD.

Apologies for getting off topic, but to hear the CR called "lackluster" is a bit insulting. The engine has only been in the NA market 5 or 6 years and we only just started having affordable turbo options recently (not to mention the recent breakthrough on the CP3 fuel pump kit from 2micron). People port the heads, throw compounds and other crazy stuff on the older cars. The CR is starting to catch up and the R&D is being done by some great people and Tuners out there, so it's only a matter of time until the newer cars are well over 300 hp.
FYI for the EA288 engine the base tune is 177whp (200bhp) / 303lb-ft (342lb-ft crank) and those cars are only a year old.

ok mini-rant over

Which pump on a alh pd? Engine is capable of 11,000 psi?

I have no doubt that the cr cars will be better. I said that. What I said is that porting, while beneficial, isnt necessary as yet since these cars dont even fuel enough for big power. Once the fuel issue is addressed...then air mods are the way to go. And yes...the numbers are lackluster for the design. They really are. I'm sure there will be improvements soon...but for now, they arent impressive given the design of the engine and fuel system. The brand new engine? Even better design. Thats why it starts out with higher numbers both power and MPG. And 6 years is plenty of time to work out how to wring more power out of a design...lets face it...the design is so old, its been replaced. Thats the way of the modern world it seems......

gloaming said:

Ok fair enough. My point was that the highest non custom tune for a CR is already surpasses that of the highest non custom tuned VE or PD.

Click to expand...

Well yeah, you're starting with 140hp out of the box, a PD is starting with 100hp so that really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. However you make way bigger gains on a PD with just a tune compared to a CR.

The "custom" head that I was offered came from shortysclimbin. Despite having been til to skip his offer, I was considering it for its price and I could have gone through PayPal if anything went amiss.
I hadn't been on for a few days so when he saw my previous post he sent a very snobby pm.
"Well, odd to read in the forums your passing on it... but that is fine. You do realize I'm the guy that designed and was first to offer valve upgrades for the tdis right? Also some of the big build alh cars run my parts back when I used to own a diesel tuning business and machineshop ... Anyways, It's ok. I'm going to post a big for sale thread up here over the weekend. I suspect I will not have any issues selling the parts! Best of luck getting the car fixed, and let me know how that cp3 kit works out for you!"
Anybody ever dealt with the guy?

Sorry If it came off wrong, that wasn't the intention at all. In all honesty I am getting out of the tdi world as I have moved into more public transportation means and transport. I really did mean best of luck with the cp3 kit and getting your engine issues resolved.

^this man is legit from way back