Castrol 507.00 does not replace 505.01

Simca1204

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It was my understanding from what I have read on this forum, various oil manufacters web sites and other web forums that the VW 507.00 spec covered the 505.01 requirements.( including this one from Castrol http://www.tds.castrol.com.au/pdf/5032_SLX_Professional_LLIII_Powerflow_119390_2007_03.pdf which at least implies it is backward compatible ). After looking at the graphic on Lubrizols web site ( http://www.lubrizol.com/acea2008/rptooloverlay/RP/PC/index.html ) which clearly shows 507.00 completely covering and improving over the 505.01 spec I decided to switch to 507.00 with my last oilchange. I used the Castrol SLX Professional LLO3 5w-30 from my local dealer because it was convienent and cheaper than any of the other brands I could find. Stupidly, it was AFTER changing my oil that I read the fine print on the bottle.
“It has been manufactured specifically for VW engines built after 2007.“

This language worried me so I called VW and after being put on hold for long time I was told “ 507.00 is for the new 2009 TDI and 505.01 is for the 2004 to 2006 PD motor.” The gentleman I was talking to was clearly reading off a piece of paper and had no knowledge of his own so I just left it at that.

I then sent an e-mail to Castrol and this was the response:

INQUIRY DETAILS:
I have a 2005 VW Golf TDI and a 2006 VW Jetta TDI both of which require VW 505.01 spec oil. I can get Castrol SLX Professional LL03 (507.00) from my dealer, I would like to use this oil if the 507.00 spec also covers the VW 505.01 spec. In short; Does the new 507.00 spec cover the 505.01 spec also?

*
Thank you for contacting Castrol North Ameirca.
The SLX Professional LLO3 5w-30 meets VW 504 00 and 507 00 it does not meet the VW 505 01 specification. The 505.01 engine oil is specifically formulated to ensure protection of the cam lobes that drive the unit injectors. High loading requires the proper level of antiwear protection. In turn VW needs to ensure that 505.01 is utilized for this engine design. The cam shafts are mechanically driven and assist in the build up of fuel pressure in each injector.
Castrol 505 01 is only available in North America through VW dealerships.** It is branded as Castrol 505 01 or Castrol SLX professional oil and has a VW part number (ZVW-352-167-Q-DSP).
*
Castrol Consumer Relations

It would appear that according to VWOA and Castrol USA the 507.00 spec does not “automatically” cover the 505.01 spec and Castrol at least on their USA marketed product has decided to NOT consolidate the VW specs.
 

CsTDI

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Interesting reply from Castrol. I have a 2006 PD TDI engine that says it can use 505.01 or 507.00. My understanding was that 507.00 is designed the same as 505.01 except that 507.00 is a low SAP oil targeting the DPF and emissions, where the 505.01 doesn't. In saying that 507.00 doesn't meet the 505.01 specifications, I wonder if Castrol is focusing on that the 505.01 oil is a 5w-40 oil where the 507.00 is 5w-30?
 

BleachedBora

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Agreed, I'm watching this one and making some calls tomorrow. For now I'll take what Castrol says at face value, but I want to collaborate a few things before I accept it as binding...they could have just as well read off a sheet of paper themselves...

Then again, it could be what Cs just said in trying to keep the thicker oils out there for the PDs...

In any case, this should be interesting!
-BB
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
VW 507.00

This is the new low SAPS diesel engine spec made to meet todays ever increasing exhaust emission demands. It is backwards compatible with all the older diesel engine specs. There is no non-longlife variant of this oil. This oil is mandatory if your TDI engine has a DPF (Diesel Particle Filter), except certain DPF enabled touareg/phaeton/transporter engines.

Viscosity Ratings: 5W-30

Flexible Service Interval (longlife) capable: Yes
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
VW 507.00 oil

The oils in this section meet the VW 507.00 specification. These oils are suitable for almost all VAG diesel engines from 2000 onwards with extended service intervals, unitary injector pumps and also Pumpe-Düse ("PD") engines.

Excludes V10, R5 engines and VW Commercial vehicles without fitted DPF (diesel particulate filters) – these must use a 506 01 specification oil.
 

dieseldorf

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Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Gasoline and Diesel oil for EURO IV engines
100% Synthetic

MSRP: $12.60 / Liter
(12 - 1 Liter Bottles per case)


TYPE OF USE

Specifically designed for VAG Group recent cars (Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda, Seat) fitted with EURO IV engines that require lubricants with low Sulphur, low Phosphorus and low Sulphated Ashes rates.

VW Approvals

Back compatibility of Motul Specific 504 00-507 00 5W-30 over previous VW oil standards 502.00, 505.00, 505.01, 503.00, 503.01, 506.00 or 506.01

Attention :
- Touareg R5 and V10 Tdi must use Motul Specific 506 01-506 00-503 00.
- Drain intervals remain fixed at 15 000 km in Europe for any car calling for VW 502 00, 505 00 or 505 01 oils even if vehicles use Motul Specific 504 00-507 00.
- In case of doubt, refer to owner manual oil specification.

PERFORMANCES

APPROVALS Volkswagen 504 00 / 507 00
* Engines compliant with EURO IV emission regulation are fitted with sensitive systems for exhaust gas after treatment :
- Sulphur and Phosphorus inhibit catalytic convertors operation and can damage catalytic components : inefficient exhaust gas treatment.

- Sulphated Ashes clog diesel particulate filters : shorter regenerating cycle, higher fuel consumption and engine power loss.

Volkswagen developed VW 504 00 507 00 standard for lubricants with low Sulphur, Phosphorus and Sulphated Ashes content, compatible with after treatment systems. Those oils allow reaching extended drain intervals managed by computer on board.

RECOMMENDATION

Drain interval : refer to manufacturers’ recommendations and tune to your own use.
Do not mix with lubricants not VW 504 00 507 00 compliant.

PROPERTIES

Viscosity grade SAE J 300 5W-30
Density at 20°C (68°F) ASTM D1298 0.848
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 11.7 mm²/s
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 72.3 mm²/s
Viscosity index ASTM D2270 157
Pour point ASTM D97 -39°C / -38°F
Flash point ASTM D92 242°C / 467°F
TBN ASTM D 2896 7.2 mg KOH/g
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Q8 Formula V Long Life 5W-30Q8 Formula V Long Life 5W-30 is a fully synthetic passenger car engien oil for normal and extended drain intervals.

VW 504.00/507.00 Backwards compatible with 501.01/502.00/503.00/503.01/505.00/505.01/506.00 and diesel
 

dieseldorf

Top Post Dawg
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Location
MA
TDI
ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 meets or exceeds the
following industry specifications:
C2/C3, A3/B3/B4
ACEA
A5/B5
ACEA (Meets Engine Test Requirements)
SL / SM
API (Meets Engine Test Requirements)
CF
API
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following
builder approvals:
Longlife 04
BMW
229.31/229.51
Daimler Chrysler
504.00 / 507.00
Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel)

Also recommended for use in applications requiring
Longlife 01 and 01 FE
BMW
502 00 / 503 00 / 503 01
Volkswagen (Gasoline)
505 00 / 506 00
Volkswagen (Diesel)
505 01^ / 506 01^:)
Volkswagen (Diesel "Unit-Injector/Pumpe-Düse" -
exceptions pls see below)
^ except "Unit-Injector/Pumpe-Düse" R5/V10-TDi (VW
506 01) and 3/4-cylinder Diesel engines without
Longlife-Service/without Diesel-Particulate-Filter (VW
505 01)
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
5W-30
SAE Grade
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
72.8
cSt @ 40ºC
12.1
cSt @ 100ºC
164
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270
0.6
Sulphated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874
3.58
HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC, ASTM D4683
-45
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97
254
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92
0.850
Density @ 15ºC, kg/l, ASTM D 4052
Health and Safety
Based on available information, this product is not expected to produce adverse effects on health when used
for the applications referred to above and the recommendations provided in the Material Safety Data Sheet
(MSDS) are followed. MSDS's are available upon request through your sales contact office, or via the Internet. This
2 of 3
http://www.exxonmobil.com/pdssearch/search.asp?chooseLanguage=it
[FONT=arial,sans-serif]Page 3[/FONT]
product should not be used for purposes other than the applications referred to above. If disposing of used
product, take care to protect the environment.
The Mobil logotype, the Pegasus design and "Mobil 1" are trademarks of Exxon Mobil Corporation, or one of its
subsidiaries.
ExxonMobil Lubricants & Specialties
All products may not be available locally. For more information, contact your local sales office or visit www.exxonmobil.com.
ExxonMobil is comprised of numerous affiliates and subsidiaries, many with names that include Esso, Mobil, or ExxonMobil. Nothing in this document is intended to override or
supersede the corporate separateness of local entities. Responsibility for local action and accountability remains with the local ExxonMobil affiliate entities. Due to continual product
research and development, the information contained herein is subject to change without notification. Typical Properties may vary slightly.
 

Simca1204

Active member
Joined
Apr 29, 2008
Location
Richmond, Va
TDI
2005 Golf , 2006 Jetta
Obviously it is possible to make a 507.00 oil that meets 505.01, many companies make that claim. I actually thought Castrol was one of them. However, the wording of the reply I got from both VW and Castrol is that the 507.00 product they co-engineered and sell with a VW part# is specifically not backwards compatible with 505.01. Why they chose to do this baffles me but I have no option but to take their word for it. I have no way of knowing what ingredient they may have reduced or removed that is critical to my PD.

I have been using ELF DID 5w40 but when they changed to Total they also changed that oil to a 5w30 as did Castrol. I didn’t really like the idea of switching to a thinner oil but thought that if I had to I would use the better spec. In the future I will either use Mobil 1 ESP or find a good 505.01 that is still a 5w40.
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
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Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
^^^ Go with the M1 ESP stuff, it's a great oil and I think your TDI will do fine on it.

Having said that, a visual inspection of the innards under the valve cover wouldn't hurt. Look closely on the lifter surfaces for wear pattern as well the cam lobe and chamfer. Any gouges or scratches that are discernable or catch the fingernail should be addressed soon.

It's the only way you'll know if your PD is living a good life or not.

Also, if you are out of the warranty period why not just go to a full HD oil like the new Delvac? The additive levels are far higher than most 507 or 505.01 oils.
 

TooSlick

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Dec 2, 1999
Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
The mistake folks make is in thinking that each successive generation of VW "Uberlubes", is superior in every way to the specs that preceeded it - this is simply not true. The VW 507.00 oils CAN be used in place of VW 505.01 in the PD, but are they optimized for this application in terms of viscosity and additive chemistry???
 

Simca1204

Active member
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Apr 29, 2008
Location
Richmond, Va
TDI
2005 Golf , 2006 Jetta
TooSlick said:
The mistake folks make is in thinking that each successive generation of VW "Uberlubes", is superior in every way to the specs that preceeded it - this is simply not true. The VW 507.00 oils CAN be used in place of VW 505.01 in the PD, but are they optimized for this application in terms of viscosity and additive chemistry???
I understand your point completely and had made that very same assumption until I saw the graphic on Lubrizols site which clearly shows 507 meeting all the 505.01 points on the graph and exceeding some of them. Compare the M.Benz 229.51 to the 507 or 505.01 and you can see that some very different concerns are addressed by the different specs.

I believe the Castrol is a perfectly good oil designed for VW engines with backward compatibility built in that will protect my engine just fine and this is just a marketing department decision. However I don't have the facts to support that and am forced to take Castrol/VW at their very clear words.
 

TooSlick

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Location
Dixie
TDI
Audi 100S
Why would Castrol care if you use their VW 507.00 product in both your TDI's? If anything, their profit margin (@ $10.00+/qt), is greater on the new stuff than on the older, VW 505.01 oil. I suspect they simply think their 5w-40 will perform better, since it was formulated for this specific application.
 

Simca1204

Active member
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Apr 29, 2008
Location
Richmond, Va
TDI
2005 Golf , 2006 Jetta
The Castrol 507.00 & the 505.01 are both less than $7. at my dealer and they're both a 5w30.
Since the preponderance of information on this site and the web in general is that 507.00 supercedes 505.01 and some oil brands specifically say their 507.00 covers the 505.01 spec I thought it important to know that Castrol USA and VWOA ,for some reason, don't want to do that with their own product.
Apparently the 505.01 spec changed in mid-stream and maybe their thinking on this issue has changed also.
 

TooSlick

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Location
Dixie
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Audi 100S
If the Castrol VW 507.00 is < $7.00/qt, it's formulated with a less capable, average quality, Group III basestock.
I'd use one of the 507.00 oils that's clearly PAO/Ester based, like the Mobil 1/ESP. The Mobil product has excellent viscosity-temp properties and looks like a $10.00/qt synthetic.
 

Bob_Fout

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Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
TOTAL also has 507.00 oil that sells for around $10/L.
 

stefan_b

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TDI
Skoda Octavia, 1.9 TDI BXE 77KW, MY2008
Just my 2 cents... the tech seems to know what he's talking about - but makes a regrettable confusion - it is not the injector cam but rather the valve cams - especially the exhaust one - that suffer from increased pressure and temp.

So... I do doubt whether he really knows too much about the subject. Being an answer from the US center, I also doubt this is a hot topic on their side (being Diesel and VW) so maybe he is not remembering all the facts? Or maybe he knows stuff that we don't.

There are TSB's clearly stating that 507.00 superseeds 505.01. If I were the OP, I would nicely ask for escalation and for them to please provide more basis information supporting the conclusion.

I think HTHS for both 505.01 and 507.00 is set to 3.5 minimum...
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
stefan_b said:
Being an answer from the US center,

There are TSB's clearly stating that 507.00 superseeds 505.01.

I think HTHS for both 505.01 and 507.00 is set to 3.5 minimum...
Stefan, welcome aboard. I believe you are 100% correct with your comments. You've got to discount "technical" information offered by VWoA. We've never witnessed such a woefully inadequate organizaton :rolleyes:
 

SBAtdijetta

Top Post Dawg
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Apr 19, 2006
Location
Houston, TX
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'10 Jetta Cup 6spd, '02 Jetta Auto
stefan_b said:
Just my 2 cents... the tech seems to know what he's talking about - but makes a regrettable confusion - it is not the injector cam but rather the valve cams - especially the exhaust one - that suffer from increased pressure and temp.

So... I do doubt whether he really knows too much about the subject. Being an answer from the US center, I also doubt this is a hot topic on their side (being Diesel and VW) so maybe he is not remembering all the facts? Or maybe he knows stuff that we don't.
This seems to be accurate actually, I think he does know what he is talking about (but maybe confused?). Correct the lobes that have been failing have most often been the exhaust valve lobes, even while the intake lobes look fine or even untouched... the injector lobes are also normally fine until extreme wear has occured, but it does all indicate that it normally starts with the exhuast lobes.

Maybe he is right; maybe he does know more than we do on the subject as well. I wonder what else he knows about...
stefan_b said:
There are TSB's clearly stating that 507.00 superseeds 505.01. If I were the OP, I would nicely ask for escalation and for them to please provide more basis information supporting the conclusion.

I think HTHS for both 505.01 and 507.00 is set to 3.5 minimum...
Yes very true acording to VW 507 > 505.01.... again acording to VW...
 

TooSlick

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Audi 100S
The exhaust valves run much hotter; some of this heat is transferred to the tappets, hence reducing the oil film thickness on these parts that come in contact with the camshaft.

It makes perfect sense that you'd see more wear on the cam lobes that actuate the exhaust valves....
 

stefan_b

Active member
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Location
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Skoda Octavia, 1.9 TDI BXE 77KW, MY2008
Thank you all for the welcome!

dieseldorf said:
[...]
Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 has the following
builder approvals:
[...] 504.00 / 507.00 Volkswagen (Gasoline / Diesel)

Also recommended for use in applications requiring
[...]506 00 Volkswagen (Diesel)
505 01/506 01 Volkswagen (Diesel "Unit-Injector/Pumpe-Düse" -exceptions pls see below)

except "Unit-Injector/Pumpe-Düse" R5/V10-TDi (VW 506 01) and 3/4-cylinder Diesel engines without Longlife-Service/without Diesel-Particulate-Filter (VW 505 01)


Typical Properties Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30
[...]
3.58 HTHS Viscosity, mPa·s @ 150ºC, ASTM D4683

The above baffled me when I originally read it on the back of an M1 bottle. It is kind of contradicting itself, so [attempt at translating marketing speak] here is how I read it:

"M1 ESP 5W-30 should be chosen for vehicles set up with LL Service or equipped with DPF. If neither LL or DPF are required/installed, then it is not a recommended replacement for a 505.01 spec oil. It is also clearly not up to the 506.01 spec either - when the engine *really* requires 506.01 oil, even though we listed it at the top."

In other words - the primary concern here seems to be that the car should be - and remain - environmentally friendly, and that the oil should protect the expensive DPF. If these requirements are set aside, then I read the label as - look for another oil to protect your engine; this one protects the after-treatment system...

Baffling again is that the HTHS is listed at 3.58... which should normally be fine.

Is my translation terribly wrong?
 

TooSlick

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Audi 100S
Stefan,

Your interpretation is 100% correct....

VW 504.00/507.00 oils are optimized for use in the DPF equipped engines. Secondarily, they are also general purpose lubes that replace earlier VW/Audi specs. The 505.01 products are still the primary recommendation for PD's in North America.
 

dieseldorf

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stefan_b said:
then it is not a recommended replacement for a 505.01 spec oil.
Is this for a technical reason or is it VAG/oil mfr. trying to direct the owner to use a less expensive (505.01) oil?

The 507.00 oil is rated for LL making it "premium" with an expected higher cost.

Is 505.01 the absolute best solution for the PD engine? I don't know...we may have an answer years from now, Stefan.
 

TooSlick

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DD,

Care to make an educated guess why VW 506.01 is still the primary spec for the V-10, TDI's??? :)
 

dieseldorf

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TooSlick said:
DD,

Care to make an educated guess why VW 506.01 is still the primary spec for the V-10, TDI's??? :)
I have no idea but see that recommendation still exists for a certain production run. Nobody in the USA seems to be aware of it :rolleyes:
 

TooSlick

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Dixie
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I'd say it's two things:

1) VW is trying to maximize fuel efficiency by using a very low viscosity (SAE 0w-30), friction modified oil.

2) All things being equal, the more fuel you burn (as with a V-10 engine),, the more quickly you degrade the oil. The VW 506.01 products have a much higher additive "treat" rate to mitigate the effects of soot, NOx, fuel dilution, etc.
 

CsTDI

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this may be implied but not real clear. 506.01 is not an acceptable oil for all V10 TDIs. As DD said 506.01 is the choice for a specific production run of V10s. In fact for the V10 TDIs, the correct/acceptable oil for some is 506.01, 505.01 or 507.00, or 507.00
 
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