Timing belt change interval for PD engines (BEW at least)?

Seems to be some confusion. There is a email list for some of us Diesel boys for all of the years of VW diesels. I mentioned that I read that the BEW engine has the timing belt interval changed to 80K from 100K. Some one went to the dealer and they didn't see any changes in the interval and I can't find much for references. idparts.com and the blog for that website references that and a few members have referenced a change but I don't see VW documentation stating the change. Just trying to get my facts. correct. The other parts suppliers mention 80-100K change interval but noting hard on the 80K. Can someone help clear this up. Don't need a "just be safe" answer as well because if that was the case one would change it every oil change if you really wanted to "be safe".

Ooohh.....a BEW timing belt is a sore subject with me.

The BEW's TB change interval was 100k miles from day one. My 05 PD JWagen's TB change interval is 100k miles. IIRC, VW recently issued a TSB (anybody on here have it? I don't) recommending the BEW TB change interval be shortened from 100k down to 80k miles. With my 05 PD JWagen it adds insult to injury because my BEW's TB failed (!) early at 76k miles before the TSB was supposedly issued. The failure happened in July 2009.

Given the rest of the car was in pristine shape at the time and upgrades were planned for it (still bone stock hardware at the time), I had mrchill do an engine swap and all upgrades we could do while everything was apart (RC tune, stronger clutch, bigger turbo, 3bar MAP, opened up exhaust). My 05 PD JWagen now has a factory new ATD PD crate engine as a replacement for my BEW. The ATD (aka PD100 in Europe) is what the BEW was derived from for the USA, so it was a plug and play swap. A few BEW-specific parts had to be swapped over to the ATD to make it work with my BEW ECU and not throw any CEL codes. The whole job was expensive but the car is sooooo much better than new now.

I'm coming up on 60k miles on the ATD PD engine and I'm going to have mrchill change it at 60k miles. I'm rather gun-shy about going any farther than that on the TB given the TB in my BEW didn't make it to 80k miles. I really don't want to deal with a second TB failure if I can help it.

To add some confusion, 2 years ago a VW dealer service manager told me they shortened the TB interval to 90K miles. 80, 90, 100, who knows.....given the stresses on the belt by the high pressure PD units and the high cost of replacing the PD head, I'll be going with 80K miles.

Based on the condition of all the components that come off at 100k ( save a weeping wp every now and then) I have no qualms with advising a 100k interval.

I knew you were going to post a conservative interval David! I certainly don't blame you.

Coalminer,

The way I dealt with that was to change out at 80K because I was at 7 years. I think that there also is a time element that can sway you to either 80 or 100 depending on how long it's been in there. So if it's at 80K but over only three years, I'd be more comfortable going 100K than I would if it was getting to 80K after 8 years. Does that make sense? If I was in the middle, I'd (sorry!) opt for safety.

Cheers Bud.

greengeeker said:

I knew you were going to post a conservative interval David! I certainly don't blame you.

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I think I was also bumping up against the age limit (4 or 5 years) on the TB in my BEW. These cars are meant to be driven regularly instead of sitting around. The car wasn't my daily driver and there was evidence of dry-rot setting in due to non-use. That's why the miles were still low after 5 years. Lately I've been using my '10 JSW for my commute during the week and driving the 05 ATD PD JWagen on the weekends to give it some regular use.

I had mine done at 5 1/2 years and 100,000 miles on the nose. There was nothing mentioned about it looked too weak, or I should have done it before. Are there other factors, like the climate you drive in? I lived in Washington state until the end of August. Is it going to be shorter down here? Or, is it a matter of how hard you drive your engine? Mine almost never exceeds 3,000 rpm. So, maybe my next tb change should be at 180,000 instead of 200,000. Or, at some point I should call my guru.

I asked one of the idparts guys. They are going to look it up if they can find the letter from VW for me/us. What worries me with just inspecting at 80K is what are you inspecting. You can't see your water pump very well nor can you turn the pump and/or the tensioner pulley without taking the belt off to see if it is starting to fail.

As for the conditions I would say if you didn't have your side shields/belly pan on you should change earlier from the water/salt that could get in the belt area. Extreme heat or cold climates and dry would also be worse I would think. Chemicals would be bad. Town driving would also be bad (more RPM per mile-to get technical belts have a Rev limit but only way to measure is miles/Km which there is 5/6 gears that can change that depending on what is used).

If there was a common problem with 100K, I believe that we would hearing about way more failures in the 80K or so range. IOW, its not like these things work great right up to the service interval and then fall apart. Plus, I don't think you can easily see potential problems with the belt or other components all the time, maybe some of the time. So it's a matter of comfort, I guess.

What I heard from the VW guy was that VW was getting sick of replacing engines under warranty in the 90-100K mile range, when the powertrain warranty ran out at 100K and they're off the hook. So they changed the interval to 90K more-or-less as a way of getting out of expensive warranty service. How accurate any of this is I have no idea, just passing on what the guy told me.

I tell everyone 100k on all the PDs, unless they are just not racking up the miles that quickly.

I've never seen one fail before that, never seen any component even look close to failure when I do them at 100k, and n1das is the ONLY one I've ever even heard of failing before that, and his even failed before 80k.

I googled this and found the maintenance schedule from Bentley, which shows 80K for inspection and replacement at 100K. I'll keep looking for the schedule from VW, as I recall it said replace at 80K.

However, I think the 80K recommendation is actually a way to get the dealer or shop to look for cam wear. I honestly don't see why you couldn't go 100K if it's within the 5 year time period, give or take.

My owners manual for my 2005 (BEW) say to change it at 100,000 miles. It also says that all services must be performed at the scheduled mileage or 12 months AFTER the LAST service, whichever comes FIRST. So based on that, the TB should be changed ANNUALLY.

If the timing belts are changed at 80,000 miles, instead of 100,000 miles, and the dealer does it, they get 20% more business!

For someone who has not a clue about how to inspect the timing belt, or does not know what noises are associated with wear of timing belt components, I could possibly see an 80,000 mile change interval. But for folks who are TDI maintenance savy and who know what to look and listen for I think 100,000 miles is adequate, provided the previous timing belt and related parts were replaced correctly.

--Nate

I guess the final, but useless, answer would be "100K miles is fine as long as it doesn't break before."

It would be interesting to have a 1000 PDs with new, properly replaced belts, let 'em all go until the belt fails and graph what mileage it took. I'm not volunteering mine!

Not volunteering mine either. Thanks for the info everyone. I think I might replace mine at 90 just becuase a fair share of my driving is in town. I just had hear a few people mention the 80K mark and I wanted to set it straight so no one has extra cost either way (early belt/engine change).

When I bought "Cranberry" this past July it had 71,000 miles on it. They did the belt as part of the prep for sale.

While reading up on TB procedure for other cars, i found a Honda note that "sever" service was if the car was driven extensively in over 120 F or under -20 F. So according to that, the Honda would be fine to 105,000 for most people.

I'm interested in hearing other opinions on this.

Getting mine done by a guru Thursday. The car has just 80,000 miles. Based on what I read in this forum and the guru's advice, I am getting it changed at 80,000 mile mark - o.k., less than 81,000 miles. All of this talk about premature cam wear and the horrors of timing belt breakage has gotten me to be a bit more prudent about the timing belt.

The guru is charging $850. This includes new TB, new tensioner, new idler, new water pump, new drive belts, new engine mount bolts, and new coolant. Hope I'm not getting shafted. All of the other guru's within a 300 mile distance want over $1300 for the same job.

Is there something I should make sure to include (or not to include) in this job? I am bringing my new fuel filter. I think they remove the FF when doing the job, so hopefully they will put the new one in for free "while they are there."

I looked at Bentley for an '05 TDI, it says replace at 80K, no inspection. Looked at an '06, and it shows no change interval at all. Go figure.

I think I need another source. I'll keep looking.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I looked at Bentley for an '05 TDI, it says replace at 80K, no inspection. Looked at an '06, and it shows no change interval at all. Go figure.

I think I need another source. I'll keep looking.

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Interesting! IIRC, my Owner's Manual for my 05 (ATD) PD JWagen says 100k miles. I'll check it again.

My OM also says check at 80K, replace at 100K.

Replaced mine at 103K.

Yeah, I live dangerously

Remember, however, that your owners manuals were printed when your car was produced. The TB change interval was updated a couple years ago.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Remember, however, that your owners manuals were printed when your car was produced. The TB change interval was updated a couple years ago.

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Beat me to it.

BUG4XTC said:

Getting mine done by a guru Thursday. The car has just 80,000 miles. Based on what I read in this forum and the guru's advice, I am getting it changed at 80,000 mile mark - o.k., less than 81,000 miles. All of this talk about premature cam wear and the horrors of timing belt breakage has gotten me to be a bit more prudent about the timing belt.

The guru is charging $850. This includes new TB, new tensioner, new idler, new water pump, new drive belts, new engine mount bolts, and new coolant. Hope I'm not getting shafted. All of the other guru's within a 300 mile distance want over $1300 for the same job.

Is there something I should make sure to include (or not to include) in this job? I am bringing my new fuel filter. I think they remove the FF when doing the job, so hopefully they will put the new one in for free "while they are there."

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The fuel filter is not normally removed (the fuel lines from it to the engine are disconnected at the filter), but it should not be much more to swap it out.

I would ask the guru to check the tosion setting (cam timing) with a VCDS when done and adjust to 0-0.5 degrees KW if its not at that.

--Nate

I looked at my Bentley which stated the 80 inspection 100 change and I think it was printed in 07. I bought it fall of 08 not long after buying the car. Either way for those of you with the PD engines-you are likely out of time as it is commonly agreed that 5 years in the time mark and seeing as the BRM last sold in 06 and it is 2011 that is 5 years to me.

It also depends on where you live. For example, Mazda says to change the TB on my Miata at 60K miles. However, for cars sold in California, the CPR required the interval to be 100K miles. Perhaps, rather then printing different manuals for different states, VW put their preferred change interval at 80K as an "inspection" and made 100K as the "change" point. It would be interesting to see how many VW dealers actually changed the TB at the 80K point after an inspection was done.

Waking up an old thread I know, but any readers of this should be fully aware...

I'm in the camp that believes the interval was shortened to 80K due to an increase of belt failures. Mine started to lose teeth before 70K and the belt stretched enough to knock the torsion out of whack enough to affect the fueling and stall the engine (between 1-2 teeth off). I was VERY lucky that's ALL that happened to me -- in many cases it causes valve/piston collision.

I strongly recommend inspecting your belt EVERY oil change (10K) and consider replacement between 60-80K if you have any doubts whatsoever. It only takes a minute or so to remove the belt cover, inspect, and put it back on.

always replaced mine at 80-90K. it is the water pump that worries me more than the belt

Yes, 75K for me on interval. Why screw with it? Also good opportunity to go over the whole engine including a cam/lifter eval.

Are there are any signs which indicate a water-pump is going bad?

I do understand the potential nightmare scenario of a broken timing belt but, after reading a good bit, it seems the much more common scenario is timing belts, and associated parts, are replaced when they are still in very good condition.

My car is housed & driven in Arizona. No snow, no salt, no freezing temps, negligible rain, and I have, after 2 years, not seen a single pothole. I drive very conservatively (to maximize mpg). All told, I just don't see the timing belt going bad, even after 100k miles.