2.0L TDI engine ideas

OK Volks a new project begins...

This winter when it is too cold to do anything outside, I want to start on my “other” Golf Country. I will be adding air conditioning to it, a gear box from a 1990 Rallye Golf and a TDI engine.

The big thing I want to concentrate on is the engine. The VNT-20 ALH in my Syncro Westfalia is a total riot to drive – no dyno tests yet, but when you can drive a 2800kg 4x4 camper up a long steep 8% hill hauling two ATVs on a trailer and still maintain the speed limit, you know there is something happening back there!

What I want to do for my Wife’s Golf (it's really her Country, not mine) is have what have what the Rolls Royce sales brochures list for engine output… simply “adequate” I want to have more than enough power in this car. If you push the skinny pedal down, I want it to go forward, if you push it down a lot, I want to go forward…. A lot! I want something better than my VNT-20 ALH. So, I am thinking 2.0L displacement and a large turbo with some high flow nozzles. This is what I am thinking of:

-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]1.9L AHU block bored out to accept 2.5L pistons for a displacement of 2.0L
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]VNT-22 or similar turbo (MB Sprinter?)
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]R520 nozzles
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]ALH engine code ECU with custom software
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]11mm injector pump
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Large front mounted intercooler
-[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]Fuel and oil coolers

So, basically for all your gear heads out there… what sort of things would you do to ensure that this combo would work really well? Nothing is built at this moment. I don’t have any turbo sitting here for it yet nor do I have pistons. Just a Golf Country with a blown transmission and a few stock TDI engines to pick from.

What turbo out there is a size larger than the VNT-20 that is available in North America from a non-specialty dealer? I have heard that the MB / Dodge Sprinter uses a VNT-22 – is this true? Is this turbo from the Sprinter desirable for my configuration? Or the proven VNT-20 more than enough turbo for a setup like this?

Pistons… exactly which 2.5L pistons are compatible with AHU connecting rods? Does anyone have a part number they can share with the group? Has anyone out there actually made a 2.0L from a 1.9L?

Clutch… what 02A based clutch should I consider using? Even though there is a monster brewing, I don't want an OFF / ON and no where inbetween clutch.

Finally, is all of this work going to give me significantly better results than just building up a good 1.9L VNT-20?

Hmm.. You might want to reconsider the MB VNT22. The exhaust side might be about right but the compressor dosnt want to make that much of boost. 1.5-1.7 bar max before the EMPs start to rise... If you would make a hybrid then that might be good starting point. Or the GT22 found in Transpointer van. Then find a better compressor wheel (and of course tell me about it ) for it, and get them mated together. My next turbo might well be that Transpoiter turbo + better compressor. Or VNT20 with the turbine wheel and the VNT vanes from GT2259V and a better compressor. BMW 3l TD should have a bit better compressor, but even it might be limited to 1.7bar...

Depending on how crazy you want to go I would shoot for a vnt-25, you would want properly tuned pulsed tubular manifolds to help spool up though. Get a custom cam, a 12mm pump with a large lift pump and fuel cooler, some of marks custom mapping and for a clutch on an o2a I would go with a Spec stage 3, It holds 444ft/lbs of torque, its the same clutch I have on my twin turbo tdi.

Fast_Forward said:

Pistons… exactly which 2.5L pistons are compatible with AHU connecting rods? Does anyone have a part number they can share with the group? Has anyone out there actually made a 2.0L from a 1.9L?

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IIRC that is what "tdi rs" from England has done with previous iterations of his monster, quite possibly still running like that, he doesn't post here all that much anymore. I think he had custom rods made as well to lower compression, not sure if that was mandatory due to potentiall piston height differences, or he just wanted lower than stock comp numbers. 230-240 whp out of a VE TDI I think, easily dusts anything on this continent. Mojo knows most of the details of his ride.

Well, because you want items that are avalible in NA, here is my sugestion as for the turbo. GT-2554 Compressor, mated to MB VNT22 Turbine. Yup it will be expensive, but by the looks of what you want to get out of this, so will the whole build.

As far as the rest of the motor:

- ARP head studs, mainstuds rod bolts
- Custom rods: Pauter, Eagle, Carrlillo ect...
- The 2.5 pistons, with the valve reliefs cut a 1mm deeper (there is a discution on ths somewhere)
- Custom cam, Iirc TDI-RS, ran a modified 8V GTI cam, the cam was modified to fit the diesel pully, but it was a stock spec 8V GTI cam. This is one of the reason's that he cut the valve relifs deeper, not just for lower CR, but to clear the cam as well.
- Kerma's super duper race nozzles (I here through the grapevine that they are in the works)
- 12mm pump I don't think the 11mm will get you everything you want.
- Try a South Bend clutch, I have talked to a couple people runing them, in TDI's with 375ftlbs+ and say they are very streetable, and have enormous ratings like 560ftlbs in there FE street series. http://www.dxdracingclutches.com/home.html

That should be a good start.

If you are inclined to listen to the peanut gallery, I think you need some nitrous after you get it running. Even with a huge turbo I'm betting with all that fuel there may be a slight haze out the rear window that begs for the potential clean up of nitrous and the few extra hp you can squeeze out of that.

Whateve you do I'm sure we will all be highly entertained with the pics of the build up.

The more that I look into this, the more I think a VNT-20 is going to be what I am looking for - just 'cause I don't want to go into the huge expence of a custom built turbo for this applicaton. VNT-20s are going to be priced right if Charlie gets a good supply of them - also there are lots of low km one on ebay.de should I choose to go really cheap.

The big question still unanswered is the part number of the 2.5L pistons that will be compatible with the AHU / ALH connecting rods... someone must know this one.

Funds are an issue with this build - the motor I want to get rebuilt, so boring out the cylinders isn't a big deal on the over all price of a rebuild - just a couple of more dollars. Nozzles and pump again no big deal but custom turbos and cams is where I start seeing blood on the floor - I have both a 12mm AHU and 11mm ALH pump here. Unless someone knows for a fact that the VNT-20 will be too small for this engine with an 11mm pump and R520s I think I will stick with using that.

Some reading for you I found,

These guys could get you the part numbers you want.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=16470&highlight=2.5+piston

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=69636&highlight=2.5+piston

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12627&highlight=2.5+piston

All is relative. If you want good low end torque and decent power then the VNT20 or even the transpointer VNT22 vill be what you want. That 22 might even be a better choise. My GT2259V starts to realy kick in when reaching 3000rpm so I dont recomend it to a daily driver. Plus it cant deliver that much more boost over VNT20. A car wiht VNT20 would feel faster even tough on the track the difference would be smaler.

hatemi said:

All is relative. If you want good low end torque and decent power then the VNT20 or even the transpointer VNT22 vill be what you want. That 22 might even be a better choise. My GT2259V starts to realy kick in when reaching 3000rpm so I dont recomend it to a daily driver. Plus it cant deliver that much more boost over VNT20. A car wiht VNT20 would feel faster even tough on the track the difference would be smaler.

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It's not a track car that is for sure. It will be my wife's daily driver to and from work and making her yearly 3000km round trip to Saskatchewan and back. However, every time I see an ad with "lady driven" I think of my wife - she likes and can drive fast very well - so what does that say about women driven cars! So it really looks like a VNT-20 is the turbo to use on this vehicle - that's good as there are lots of them around.

jackbombay said:

Some reading for you I found,

These guys could get you the part numbers you want.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=16470&highlight=2.5+piston

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=69636&highlight=2.5+piston

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12627&highlight=2.5+piston

Click to expand...

Reading that information, it really seems that increasing displacement by 72cc is really a waste of time unless there is some damage to the existing cylinder wall. Perhaps I should save my bux and stick with a 1.9L displacement - seeing how I am on my 2nd gearbox with the VNT-20 ALH in my camper - I should use an ounce of caution with the Rallye Golf gearbox and keep is a conservative 180 to 200 HP!

sorry i will. just thought it was kinda nifty. dont know where else to put it.

arvina said:

sorry i will. just thought it was kinda nifty. dont know where else to put it.

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Well, what's your purpose of posting it? If it's an advertisment for nozzles that you're selling, try the "For Sale" section. If it's just a good deal you found, create a new topic.

Mike

I would talk to: Diesel Des, Tdi Meister, and Diesel Dazzler, before you commit to running a VNT-20. As Des has tried like every combonation of vnt 20 / 22 there is, and some that there aren't. Diesel Dazzler is currently running an MB VNT-22 and Tdi Meister is iirc "heavily involved with that project "

dvst8r said:

I would talk to: Diesel Des, Tdi Meister, and Diesel Dazzler, before you commit to running a VNT-20. As Des has tried like every combonation of vnt 20 / 22 there is, and some that there aren't. Diesel Dazzler is currently running an MB VNT-22 and Tdi Meister is iirc "heavily involved with that project "

Click to expand...

Oppps - should have done that before installing a VNT-20 on the ALH in my Syncro Westfalia eh?

Jackbombay.......Quote [I here through the grapevine that they are in the works] They shaw as hell are in the in the works........they've been balanced and the pressures re-set.

I will report what i/we find with the new super dooopers which i call ( stage 1.2 R520's ) , they may go some way in not needing to use a 12mm pump.

Just going slightly off topic for a mo , who here with heavy modded cars i.e hybrid vnt17/20 or 20's and using 26psi + , fmic , etc etc and the 11mm pump...what have been your findings when you hammered the pump on + for more fuel in the way of power against how much more smoke output.

after all the money you'd spend on increasing displacement (I realize you're going away from that now) and changing to a big turbo and bigger nozzles, you could probably not spend too much more and get a 16v 2.0L PD from Europe....

http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-VW-Passat-2-0-Tdi-140-PS-Motorcode-BKP_W0QQitemZ110000947324QQihZ001QQcategoryZ61283QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/Motor-VW-Passat-...3QQihZ007QQcategoryZ61283QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/MOTOR-VW-AUDI-2-...8QQihZ018QQcategoryZ61291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-Motor-1-9-TDI...7QQihZ003QQcategoryZ61276QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-Bus-T5-Multiv...5QQihZ006QQcategoryZ61291QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-V10-TDI-Toure...8QQihZ007QQcategoryZ61283QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I wouldn't bother with the expense and trouble of boring out a 1.9 VE.

TDIMeister said:

http://cgi.ebay.de/VW-V10-TDI-Toureg-Motor-AYH-230KW-Motoren-Gebrauchte-AT_W0QQitemZ170025976228QQihZ007QQcategoryZ61283QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I wouldn't bother with the expense and trouble of boring out a 1.9 VE.

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Me either.

Fast_Forward said:

Oppps - should have done that before installing a VNT-20 on the ALH in my Syncro Westfalia eh?

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Differn't goals...

Another option would be doing twin in-line turbos. I just saw a 2002 stripped down to do just that at a shop outside of Indianapolis... all that, and a Subaru scoop for a top-mounted intercooler, a 6sp conversion, rods&pistons... the works!!!

Talk to user csusott for more info, his mechanic is incredible!!! He showed me a cummings with a similar setup running 750 bhp/1,500 ft/lb!!!

TDIMeister said:

I wouldn't bother with the expense and trouble of boring out a 1.9 VE.

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I had been so busy lately, that I have kind of forgotten just how much good stuff we don't get. Now I am miserable. Thanks.

Here is a related question. Say you have a jetta 1.9 PD (American). Can you put a European PD engine in it without the harness? I realize that you would have to remap the computer, but, that would be in the plan anyway. What about putting in an American Pasat 2.0 PD engine in it? As I understand it, the European PD130/150 and the American 2.0PD have stronger bottom ends than the American 1.9PD. So, for making reliabile power in the 200HP/350TQ range, it seems that this would be the better option. What am I missing?

Bob