White smoke / oil out of the exhaust

Dear all,

I have a big headache because of my 1.9 TDI. I'm talking about a Audi 80 1z, fitted with bigger injectors (0.205 from AFN) and VNT 17.

It has started to smoke white from the exhaust. I was looking underneth the car and I saw oil coming out from exhaust assembly points. At that moment car was running great, lots of power and fuel economy, but the turbo had the "police car sound".

I said ok, this means time for a new turbo. Got it rebuilt, with Melett CHRA, but the smoke still persisted. White smoke was still present during idle, and on low accelerations after idle, on warm engine. When engine was at normal operating temp, smoke was less the initialy.******CHECK VIDEO

I swapped the injectors, same problem, meanwhile got my injectors tested, and the result was a PASS.

I did put back the tested injectors, swaped the CCV valve with a tested one, but still problem persisted.

Before the new turbo, I did a compression test on the car.
ENGINE was really cold (turbo was already off so I couldn't start it), temp was 6 degree celsius and I got the following values:

No.1
26 bar - 380 PSI

No.2
27 bar - 400 PSI

No.3
27 bar - 400 PSI

No.4
26 bar - 380 PSI

JUST TO MENTION AGAIN, engine was cold - car sitting over night / outside temp (where the test was performed was 6 degree celsius)


Can someone please help me with this problem?

I'm suspecting valve seals?????

P.S. I attached a youtube link with the smoke, until second 25 car is warm, after car is at normal operating temp.
https://youtu.be/KXs7w1q__7M

Regards,
Catalin

If you had visible oil dribbling out of your exhaust then it's a good chance that there's a bunch still pooled up. If you cleaned your IC (and there's no pooled oil in there) then you should be able to just go out and burn off all that oil that's in the exhaust.

So, to go over sequence:

1. Was working fine, no visible white smoke out the exhaust;
2. Started seeing white smoke out the exhaust, with traces of oil in exhaust piping AND the sounds of a failing turbo;
3. Replaced CHRA and still get white smoke out the exhaust.

Differences only with turbo and accumulated oil. If the Turbo is fine (new CHRA) then that only leaves the accumulated oil as the likely, current, culprit (of the white smoke).

What does the exhaust smell like? It should smell more oily if I'm correct here.

UhOh said:

If you had visible oil dribbling out of your exhaust then it's a good chance that there's a bunch still pooled up. If you cleaned your IC (and there's no pooled oil in there) then you should be able to just go out and burn off all that oil that's in the exhaust.

So, to go over sequence:

1. Was working fine, no visible white smoke out the exhaust;
2. Started seeing white smoke out the exhaust, with traces of oil in exhaust piping AND the sounds of a failing turbo;
3. Replaced CHRA and still get white smoke out the exhaust.

Differences only with turbo and accumulated oil. If the Turbo is fine (new CHRA) then that only leaves the accumulated oil as the likely, current, culprit (of the white smoke).

What does the exhaust smell like? It should smell more oily if I'm correct here.

Click to expand...

I was thinking the same, but where is the accumulated oil??? I already cleaned the IC and all the pipes. The smoke smells as regular TDI smoke, not as burning oil, but still, I can see oil dripping from the exhaust clamping points. I already drove the car about 100 km, without any change.

After a long idle, for example a few minutes, the first pufff of smoke is bigger then usual

Catalytic converter or muffler. Do a search and you'll run across a fair number of instances of people having this issue: resolution is to just got out an really burn it out- I'm hesitant to encourage really putting the throttle down in case there's some other problem (if non are known and you're confident things are OK then go ahead).

UhOh said:

Catalytic converter or muffler. Do a search and you'll run across a fair number of instances of people having this issue: resolution is to just got out an really burn it out- I'm hesitant to encourage really putting the throttle down in case there's some other problem (if non are known and you're confident things are OK then go ahead).

Click to expand...

I was trying to do that, I did put the foot down, car has really awsome power,
But still, there is no catalytic converter and it's almost straight piped ( just the mufler left).

I'm still thinking there are some more issues, like valve seals or even rings???

How many miles (km) on the car/engine? To wear out valve seals you have to pile up a lot of engine time.

Although, when valve seals and guides are worn, cold starts generally provide enough lost oil to give you the puff of smoke you see.

aja8888 said:

How many miles (km) on the car/engine? To wear out valve seals you have to pile up a lot of engine time.
Although, when valve seals and guides are worn, cold starts generally provide enough lost oil to give you the puff of smoke you see.

Click to expand...

Car has over 250k, I don't know if engine was rebuilt or not, but when I changed the headgasket ( 2 years ago) bore was looking really good, but the smoke is visible even with the engine at normal operating temp, check the video.
It started to smoke 1 month ago, until that didn't have any smoke at any RPM.

I can't imagine exhaust valve seals leaking that bad especially on a turbocharged engine. And not starting to leak all of a sudden.

I can imagine a rebuilt TC still leaking.

Since there's nothing in the exhaust system to collect a large puddle of oil it doesn't sound like residual.

KLXD said:

I can't imagine exhaust valve seals leaking that bad especially on a turbocharged engine. And not starting to leak all of a sudden.

I can imagine a rebuilt TC still leaking.

Since there's nothing in the exhaust system to collect a large puddle of oil it doesn't sound like residual.

Click to expand...

It was doing the same thing - smoke + oil before TC rebuild. A genuine new Melett CHRA was installed. The turbo had the "police car sound", that why I was thinking it's done, and this is the problem of smoke and oil.
With all of this I doub the it coud be the TC.
Could it be the rings ?
What do you think guys about the compression values?

How much oil is the engine consuming??
I have no faith in "rebuilt" small turbochargers or their parts.
250k km shouldn't have enough "wear" to attribute to oil useage unless there has been abuse or some "event" in past history.

I don't know how much oil is consuming, but it's doing exactly the same thing that it was doing without changing the turbocharger.

And as a update, I noticed today that under WOT smoke is turning bluish.

I don't think that is a good sign.

From what I researched, compression values should be OK, what does this mean? valve seals?????

I didn't catch that "Got it rebuilt, with Melett CHRA" meant a new TC.

Also missed that you still have a muffler so residual oil burning could still be an issue.

Again, valve seals on a turbocharged engine usually don't cause smoking nor do they normally start leaking a week ago. It would be a gradual thing.

When you had the TC out was there oil in the manifold before the turbine?

If you're loosing enough oil to see drips from the pipe I would expect to see the loss on the dipstick. When jettawreck asked about consumption I think it was also a suggestion that you determine how much you're using.

Hello again,

Just to clarify things:

1. Engine started smoking, 1st I noticed some white /very light blue smoke form the exhaust when driving hard. I noticed oil coming out from exhaust clamping points. Checked the timing + IQ with vcds, everything is ok. Timing is exactly like it was when I have changed the belt, on the middle line.

2. Got the turbo off, and after did a compression test. I was suspecting the turbo because of the "police car sound" it was making. Results of the compression test are above.

3. Got the turbo rebuilt with new Melett CHRA. Got the IC / pipes clean. There was just a small amount of oil in the IC.

4. Mounted the rebuilt turbo, and the smoke was the same. Checked the turbo pipes, and they were really clean.

5. Got the injectors pop-tested, and they were all good.

6. Swaped a tested (but used) ccv valve, there was no change.

I can't say much about oil consumption, because since the problem started I didn't drive the car very much, maybe 200 km around the city.
Car starts ok, and pulls really strong.

My guess at this time is worn rings. Comments?

But compression is not bad for a cold engine and why the sudden onset of smoking?

He didn't answer about oil in the exhaust system between head and TC.

I didn't notice any amout of oil between head and TC, so in the exhaust manifold. I took it out numerous times previous, so I could take that as a reference, and it was the same.
But again, after mounting the refurbished turbocharger, I did't take the exhaust or exhaust manifold out again, so I can't relate about that.

Could be a problem just with the oil rings? I just want to mention, since I owned the car it was serviced on time...

I'm not seeing how this can all of a sudden become an oil-ring problem (unless you know something that we don't).

No..no, don't understand me wrong.
That what I was asking too, if it's possible to have good compression and bad oil rings???
Car has been serviced by me, and always on time, with quality oil / filters ( I changed all the filters at each oil change).

I'm reading on the internet different problems, as injectors / maf...I don't know what to believe anymore.

Injectors were pop tested and they PASS.

Is it there any posibility to drop oil from headgasket directly to pistons? without having contaminated oil or coolant ?

I would suspect the "rebuilt" turbo is passing oil.
Monitor the consumption-always.
Not sure why messing with testing injectors when you are tracking an oil useage (leakage) issue. Just complicates/confuses the issue.

jettawreck said:

I would suspect the "rebuilt" turbo is passing oil.
Monitor the consumption-always.
Not sure why messing with testing injectors when you are tracking an oil useage (leakage) issue. Just complicates/confuses the issue.

Click to expand...

Please understand this, I drove the car for just about 200 KM since the problem started. I can't relate about oil consumption.

For me is confusing too, smoke doesn't smell like burning oil, it has the regual TDI smoke smell.

I will drive the car this weekend for few hundred of km,and I will watch the oil level.

Catalin_BN said:

No..no, don't understand me wrong.
That what I was asking too, if it's possible to have good compression and bad oil rings???
Car has been serviced by me, and always on time, with quality oil / filters ( I changed all the filters at each oil change).

I'm reading on the internet different problems, as injectors / maf...I don't know what to believe anymore.

Injectors were pop tested and they PASS.

Is it there any posibility to drop oil from headgasket directly to pistons? without having contaminated oil or coolant ?

Click to expand...

Yes, you can have good compression and bad oil rings. Oil ring problems tend to that they're stuck, usually a byproduct of running veggie oil or some other type of sludge, or so I've read.

You cannot have headgasket issues AND good compression (that I know of). Oil "dropping" into the cylinders would be from the valve seals. How one determine that one has bad valve seals is something that I'd like to know (I've got a car that goes through more oil than I like -I bought it with this issue- and I am not sure what its source of consumption is).

If you're not getting oil pooling up in your IC then I'd just recommend that you drive and monitor. Over time it'll become more apparent what the problem is. I'd hope that the new CHRA isn't bad, but at this point I wouldn't rule it out.

One "last" thing... any chance that it's coolant that you're losing? Maybe the EGR cooler?

It was doing the same thing with the old CHRA.
I will drive it and see what is happening. Maybe someone can give us an advice about how to check valve seals. My car didn't run any bio / veggie oil.There was a really small amount of oil in the IC before I changed the turbo.
After few days from installing the new turbo, I removed the pipe from turbo to IC and it was really clean, not only at all.

BTW, it's a 1z, egr is blocked, the oil cooler is a radiator, not that crappy box that is on the oil filter support. So the single chance to get coolant in the cylinder is the headgasket.

And if what you're telling it's true, that if headgasket has a problem I would have noticed it during compression test then I doub. It is less then 1 bar difference between cylinders.

Still, might be unburnt diesel??? and I made a mistake, what I see on the exhaust clamps is diesel? Is that even possible?

You don't seem sure of what you're seeing; that means your data inputs to us virtual folks is but shifting sands. You're going to have to do more sleuthing. You have physical access. You need to determine what liquid it is that you're seeing: feel, smell, taste!

I don't see how it could be diesel fuel out the exhaust if the car runs decent and isn't getting almost 10mpg or less.
As suggested, do some forensic work and figure out what liquid(s) are dripping.

You said this happens straight up with a cold idle... then I'd assume it's not the pipes or turbo as it's not hot enough yet.

I've been chasing a white smoke and it seems to have been over fueling and combustion. Depending on the volume of smoke, if there's more than a burn, then it's coming from the combustion chambers.

Check your blow by for excess oil and if you have diags, check your MAP/MAF readings and pressures. I'm dealing with a bad overfueling problem and it ceased after removing the intercooler and cleaning the MAP. It's still undetermined why...

I'm also waiting on a MITYVAC to ensure the vacuum systems and turbo actuators are set correctly. It's hard to tell the difference between unburnt diesel and oil smoke if your system is covered in oil.

EGR cleaned too?

MY 2 cents... just saying

I will come with more details asap regarding the fluid that is leaking from exhaust.

When you are saying "Check your blow by for excess oil" are you talking about ccv? If yes it was already swapped for a known woring one, there was no change.

Car has EGR off mode, and intake manifold is really clean, no carbon builtup.

What does that smoke look to you guys? Unburnt fuel or oil?

Smoke doesn't smell like oil at all.

You need to hook up to a VCDS program and see if it is throwing a code for injectors.

Hello all,

I just came home from a about 800 km trip.

But I have really good news. Anyway this blew my mind.One colleague mention above something about MAF. Didn't have the vcds + laptop near me, but I unpluged the MAF. Car started to act normal, no more white smoke and the power was 70% still there. Didn't even had time to check it with vcds because of the trip, just swapped it with a used one in good condition. All the power was there, no more smoke (I saw some tints of white / bluish smoke during WOT on the hills, it might be the IQ, because now is set at around 2.6 or 2.8 if I remember correctly).

BTW, regarding the IQ, I made 780 km, drove it really hard, over 100 km were "testing" so a lot of revving bla bla...and it used about 43 L of diesel.

I will still check the oil level tomorrow, hoping everything is ok with that.
Car feels really powerfull, no more white smoke, and with that IQ I could say good fuel economy.

Regarding the fact that you told me that I don't give you the correct input, before the trip I tasted the "liquid" that was coming out of the exhaust - no smell, no taste ( It didn't taste like diesel or oil at all), what I'm thinking it was just partially burnt diesel.

Hope this solved the problem, or at least a part of it, but I will come back with more updates.
Regarding the rebuilt turbo, I never had a turbo on that car to make boost soo fast, and I swapped a few turbocharges in the past.

So if I'm reading this right, replacing the MAF made the white smoke issue go away.
Outstanding!

BobnOH said:

So if I'm reading this right, replacing the MAF made the white smoke issue go away.
Outstanding!

Click to expand...

Exactly, just unpluging it made the smoke go away.

I have another question regarding MAF.

My car has a AFN ecu, VNT 17 turbo, and 71822101 pierburg MAF.
From what I understand there is a difference between 90 HP MAF (7.18221.01) and 110 HP MAF (7.18221.51.0).
Can you help me regarding this??
Should I go for a Audi A4 / passat 1.9 tdi AFN MAF?