Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Well, the springs are 2 1/2 " shorter uncompressed. They ride about 1 1/2 " lower with the weight on them.
I bought the Shine springs without knowing they were so much shorter than stock.
After all, I thought Shine's philosophy was not to lower suspension excessively.
These are way lower than is compatible with my driveway!
Hopefully the spacers will bring it up enough.
I can post some pics if anyone is interested.
 
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flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
I'm asking in a curious, interested manner here. Why put in springs that drop the car 2.5 inches and then put in spacers that raise it back up and inch?
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of the drop and what happens to handling with the drop and then the spacers? I guess its the geometry of the drop that is confusing me.
I have to admit that I was surprised by how short the Shine springs are. I almost wonder if they sent the right ones.
I am looking to improve handling and Shine RealStreet have a good rep for that.

People that have installed them say they raised the suspension; maybe they are referring to the front springs. I'm just talking about the rears here.

I'm just trying to give the springs a fair test by gaining back some ride height.
 

Rechtsverdreher

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2006
Location
South Carolina
TDI
1997 Passat (met its end), 2000 Jetta
Honestly, I think the Moog springs that this posting talks about are the best way to go. Handling is not that bad with them but not great.

These cars are never going to handle great and I've read many of the handling posts to determine what the issues are. Realize the limitations, they are people movers. That's their function in life.

I've got a couple of sports cars and I would suggest buying a Miata. Doesn't have to be expensive, but they are barrels of fun if handling is your desire. Its an amazing difference. My son got into the Jetta first time tonight and tried to drive it like his Miata around a curve. I think the doorhandles were scraping ;)
 

flee

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2011
Location
Chatsworth, CA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Honestly, (snip)...
These cars are never going to handle great and I've read many of the handling posts to determine what the issues are. Realize the limitations, they are people movers. That's their function in life.
I've got a couple of sports cars and I would suggest buying a Miata. (snip)
Honestly, maybe the post above needs a new forum of it's own titled "Ordinary Non-upgrades"

Seriously, if the goal is to feel sporty on the road then ride a motorcycle!

TDI-ers can upgrade their suspensions to near-'great' handling and then pass the Miatas on the straights while sharing the joke with the other 4 passengers. ;)
 

SuperChicken

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Location
Chilliwack, BC
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI
Moving to Yellowknife, NWT and this thread inspired me to keep the car instead of purchasing a gas guzzler F150.

Just purchased VR6 front springs and Wagon rears, in addition to an Evolution 1" lift kit.

Hoping to install everything this week, I'll take pics as I go along. I'll be completing the setup with some 215/75R15 Geolanders in the spring.
 

Geordi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Location
Somewhere between Heaven and Hell. But it is reall
TDI
14 JSW DSG, 03 Wagon 01M, 400k and IPT performance auto!
What if you already have wagon springs... Because you have a wagon? That is my situation, I'd like to raise it up some, maybe stiffen it up... But all the options seem to suggest using the parts that I already have?

As it is, it want to replace the front springs and struts, and all I seem to be able to locate in Autozone or Advance are Monroe QuickStruts, with no information on the spring rates so I can compare. The rear springs they list are only termed "constant rate" with no information on WHAT rate they are.

I'm not a rich man by any means, so I'm certainly looking for the "on a budget" solution that could raise my wagon by at least an inch above stock... Which probably would translate to 2 inches or more over where it sits now on 250k mile springs.

Help?

2003 Wagon, stock (or dealer replaced) components, decent ride so I don't think they are all original parts.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

TDI4evah

Veteran Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Location
Maine
TDI
2002 Jetta
The moog springs are supposed to be wagon springs *for towing*. IE, a heavier duty set than stock. The front springs are stiffer to handle the extra weight of the V6.

Your current springs being 10 years old will sag some - height is probably lower than stock because of it.
 

SuperChicken

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Location
Chilliwack, BC
TDI
2010 Touareg TDI
Installed the VR6 / Wagon springs tonight, in addition to the 1" Evolution Imports spacer kit. Install was fairly painless. Rides pretty nice on the Koni STR.T's that I opted to re-use from my H&R Sport lowering springs that I just pulled out.

Before:

H&R Sport Springs + Koni STR.T Shocks:



After:
OEM VR6 Front Springs, OEM Wagon Rear Springs + Evo Import 1" Lift Kit + STR.T Shocks:
 
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nokivasara

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Location
Sweden @ Lat 61N
TDI
Tiguan 4-motion, Golf mk7
I had both of our TDIs standing next to each other and noticed that the Skoda was sitting higher even though the strut mounts are completely shot, so I looked up the ground clearence stated in the owners manuals and got a surprice!
The manual states the ground clearence with the car fully laden, ie driver + 4 passangers and luggage.
Golf = 102mm
Octavia = 137mm
35mm difference, which is IMO just what the Golf needs, 2" lift is too tall and 1" is just on the low side :D

This is quite interesting since the Octavia is based on a A4 Golf, struts, control arms etc should be identical. Maybe they just have different springs?
I'll update this now, a year later...:eek:
I'm in the process of lifting the Skoda about 20mm, it'll end up having 155-160mm of ground clearance which should be enough even for rough gravel roads.
Anyway, I looked up the springs on Golf IV vs Octavia and to my surprice the Golf springs are much longer! 370mm vs 347mm for Octavia springs, the diameters are identical but the VW spring has one more coil on it. The struts, mounts and lower control arms are also identical and the strut towers seems to be at the same height on both so I don't know where the 35mm of extra ground clearence came from.
Could the shorter spring be that much stiffer that it gives a 35mm lift?

The rear springs are different and wont fit between Skoda/VW. I'm going with 20mm Weitec lift kit (poly spring distance) for the rear and a home made 20mm bushing for the struts on my Skoda.
 

wakes306

Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Location
saskatoon, sk
TDI
01 Golf TDI
just ordered the moog springs and BlauParts VR6 strut/shock kit. and im wondering how long it should take me to install into my 01 golf?
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Something I did with mine, not that it will help with time, but assembly, I did the rears first. Then I took the rear shocks and cut the end of the shaft of the shock off. I then threaded the nut back onto the end I cut off and had it welded on. This worked for my special spreader tool. No need to go buy a special too. Some people do not have the time to be able to do this though as they are doing both the front and the rear at the same time.
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
I was trying to follow along but I am not sure what you mean by a special spreader tool there?

Here is my strut spreader tool. I took the 7mm allen wrench that you need to counter hold the strut and I ground the end into an oval shape that looked like the picture of the famous and more expensive tool that you can find online. Works perfectly, it gets inserted in the gap and turned 90 degrees to spread the strut clamp on the spindle.

 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
At the bottom of the strut you need to be able to spread the mount that clamps the strut in place. Some buy the metalnerd tool to do so, I used the tip of my old rear shock rod.

What you have pictured there is the tool to remove the nut on the top of the strut.
 

mhettotdi

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Location
vt
TDI
2000 golf TDi
vr6 all the way around?

has any one put vr6 springs all the way around a golf, instead of using the wagon springs in the back? i am going with the evolution 1" lift kit, and billies or koni (have not decided) but do not want a rake at all.
 

mhettotdi

Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Location
vt
TDI
2000 golf TDi
any rake? i figure the lift kit would be even all the way around so the rake is in the springs
 

1.9glstdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Location
J-vill,FL
TDI
2005 passat waggon BHW PD
sorry for the revivail but vr6 all the way around rake or no rake? Should i add poly strut bushings? add audi tt LCA. and delet front swaybar? Are the poly rear bushings worth a **** or just get some all thread and a ball joint kit and put stockers back in?

Thanks
Robert
 

rspring

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Location
Florida
TDI
09 Jetta CR; 2011 BMW 335D
threadjack - I have a set of .:R32 VR6 front struts and springs for sale. I'm told they provide a nice lift. The LCAs are already sold. The rear springs are also for sale but they wont work on a MKIV FWD.
 

buttonfly

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Texas Corners, MI
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
Well that plan fell on its face. Rock Auto wants $139 shipping for the Monroe SP2070 springs!!! I might as well get the VW 5-green springs thru idParts.
I figured I'd post my results here, so others can learn from my experience.

Baseline was a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon, 5speed, stock other than a Panzer Plate skidplate. 250,000+ miles. I decided to refresh the suspension, so in December I replaced all four wheel bearings, front control arm bushings (with TT bushings), rear axle bushings (TT), ball joints, tie rods (inner & outer), struts & shocks (Koni Red, for Wagon), strut bearings, and springs. I also had the wheels aligned as soon as everything was put together.


I chose the MOOG VR6 springs for front and rear. The MOOGs were exactly the same height as the stock, but thicker diameter and one more coil each.


After install, I had gained just under an inch on all four corners. Now that I’ve driven for a couple of months, ride height has settled in at exactly the same as before. The ride is nice, definitely firmer but not bone-rattling. On the positive side, the skid plate no longer scrapes on steep driveway-to-road transitions. On the negative side, the rear springs don’t handle a load as well as the old ones. When fully loaded in back, it’s definitely lower than I like.


Front to back (think washboard) ride is good, even on Michigan’s rotten winter-damaged roads. But there’s a surprise: where the road is uneven side-to-side, I definitely feel my head snap back and forth (left and right) more than I used to. Not sure which change is causing that – the springs & dampers, or the TT bushings?


If I were to do it all again, I would probably choose a different rear spring.
 

NarfBLAST

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 3, 2002
Location
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2001 Golf 5MT
Buttonfly, you probably need some real wagon springs since you have a wagon, maybe swap in the old ones if you kept them. A set of new OEM wagon springs from idparts really improved the load carrying capacity of my Golf and raised it a couple of inches in the back.
 

buttonfly

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Texas Corners, MI
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI GLS Wagon
yeah

Rock Auto lists the MOOGs for a wagon, so I trusted it. The old springs were sold to another TDI club member for his Golf. I am keeping my eye open for options. If you see anything, let me know.
 
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