Done With Volkswagen

I've really enjoyed my 2013 Beetle Convertible TDi (manual) when the weather's been nice, really, I have. The deep, deep reserves of torque have always been a rush when driving, too. However, as we're nearing the end of my second summer with the car, the thought of going through another winter with the door windows freezing up continually really isn't that palatable, especially since it's inherent in the design of the car and can't be "fixed."

I've also noticed that the "warmup stumble" seems to be getting more pronounced, and after having the VW Service folks tell me "diesels just run that way when they're warming up," I decided I'm tired of the finicky, high-maintenance relationship (and spotty Service quality) and am ending my 25+ year run of owning and driving Volkswagens as my DDs.

So I traded the Beetle in on a new Honda Fit EX today. It's a completely different class of car, of course, but after test driving a half-dozen different options, it's what seemed to be the best match to my criteria for what should hopefully be a long-term, reasonably stress-free relationship. It's a match for fuel economy, too, only with much cheaper gasoline. We had a '90 Civic back when our kids were little, and it was an excellent, 40+ mpg, reliable car (we put 165K on it and my brother ran it up to 220K before selling it again).

Don't mean this to be a plug for the Honda, tho - it's just what seemed to "fit" best at the moment without having to put more money into the kitty (and yep, I am taking a bit of a bath in depreciation on the Beetle, but so be it).

I had my previous New Beetle TDI for almost 13 years (219K miles and got a premium on my selling price because it was in excellent condition for its age). That, too, was a high-maintenence (and high cost) relationship, but at least the car driving dynamics and overall character helped make up for a lot of it.

The '13 Beetle has turned out to be competent, but is still numb by comparison. Other than enjoying the top-down days (which in reality weren't that many here in the Middle West), I never really warmed up to the car - it simply lacks the character the NB had (IMO).

I do miss it a bit already, but come winter when my doors open without fear of breaking something, I think I'll get over it.

The Honda is pretty much an appliance on wheels, of course, but I still have my '62 sunroof and '63 sedan project cars and look forward to driving them on nice days.

It's unlikely another new VW will ever grace our driveway at this point. Our '12 Routan, on the other hand, is shaping up to be the most reliable VW we've ever owned (ba-dum!).

I'm always surprised to read and hear here on the Forum how much money some people have to spent to keep a VW rolling down the roads?! To me each and every one of my 23 VW's just cost Service and Maintenance for normal wear items. Never a blown engine, no Clutch replacement etc. Each car drove lots of miles year round in Germany, Texas and West Canada.

You bought a convertible and expect to drive it through the winter without issues?

Paulinski said:

You bought a convertible and expect to drive it through the winter without issues?

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My thoughts exactly.

Why didnt you get a winter beater? It would have been cheaper than the hit you took on the trade in.

^^^ That's what I should have added too. Never had a convertible, because I lived in Alberta most the time of my life. At 30 F below it was just not the right car. I needed cars that madeit through Winter, with me being alive.

Just my two cents here. I have had 6 VWs (3 TDis), 3 Audis, 2 MBs,as well as a mix of Honda,Toyotas etc.
Currently I have a 05 Jetta TDi (230K miles), a 13 Bettle TDi (18K miles), and an 09 Honda Fit (45K miles).
I expected the Beetle to require more attention then the Honda but that hasn't been how it's worked out so far.
The Honda Fit is a good short trip car. I love how much stuff you can get into it. The combination of regular fuel,decent mileage and high resale puts it in the same league as a TDi for cost per mile.
I have problems with the seat on longer drives but I have been told the new design Fit is improved.
Long story short, I like the Fit much more then the Toyota Prius, but my torque addiction is strong and gotta say I would miss that if my only car was the Honda.

Paulinski said:

You bought a convertible and expect to drive it through the winter without issues?

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The issue affects both the sedan and convertible. I had a TDI New Beetle for nearly thirteen years and drove it twelve of those in the same winters. The '13 Beetle did great with the cold - never gelled (the '00 did several times), started without hesitation down to -22°F. *That* wasn't the issue.

The fact the window design is such that the glass freezes in place and can't drop down is the problem. VW Service acknowledged numerous cars (sedans and 'verts) are having the problem, and that nothing can be done about it.

On top of that, the poor intercooler design led to me having several no-start problems due to water collecting and freezing in the intake plumbing. That required the installation of the intercooler cold weather kit (essentially a poppet valve that's supposed to let the [frozen?] water drain out). At least I didn't have the no-start happen again, but now the stumble on warmup problem is getting more and more noticeable.

I went through this whole cycle with my New Beetle. I thought perhaps VW quality would have been somewhat improved from its late 1990s-early 2000s low, but apparently not.

I hate the hit I took in depreciation, but the more I thought about fighting through another winter with the doors and who knows what else, the less I liked the car.

As they say, YMMV. Mine came up short.

marcoforehand said:

…my torque addiction is strong and gotta say I would miss that if my only car was the Honda.

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Note in my signature I have a 7.3l PowerStroke F-250. Talk about a torque RUSH!

I was done with VW too after my 2010 TDI double failure, HPFP and DSG. After test driving a variety of cars I knew that I would miss the torque every time I hit the gas. So I bought a new 2014 TDI wagon with the 7/100,000 warranty. I could have bought an Allroad, but Audi's are expensive to maintain and of course they cost more.
If a GTI wagon existed, I would buy that.
I will sell the wagon at 99,000 miles of 6yrs and 11months. I love VW TDI, I just don't trust it.

sad stories. Just cant fathom why car companies cant fix such basic and well known issues that recur and recur. Curious why the Fit instead of the Mazda 3 Sport? The fit looks so small to me on the road compared to my Mazda...

stembridge said:

The fact the window design is such that the glass freezes in place and can't drop down is the problem. VW Service acknowledged numerous cars (sedans and 'verts) are having the problem, and that nothing can be done about it.

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So neither silicone nor paraffin/bees wax helped?

stembridge said:

On top of that, the poor intercooler design led to me having several no-start problems due to water collecting and freezing in the intake plumbing. That required the installation of the intercooler cold weather kit (essentially a poppet valve that's supposed to let the [frozen?] water drain out). At least I didn't have the no-start happen again, but now the stumble on warmup problem is getting more and more noticeable.

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It must be a bit more humid where you are than here in Chicago. I've had neither of the two problems so far (knock on wood). The intercooler problem could also be related to short distance driving?

I agree on the Honda Fit being a car that despite the smaller size can fit a similar need profile (good fuel mileage and versatile loading capacity). Just less 'nice' and a bit less fun to drive, but also quite a bit cheaper.

Paulinski said:

You bought a convertible and expect to drive it through the winter without issues?

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I was thinking the exact same thing. If I was wanting a convertible, I'd have a spot in the garage that it sat on every day besides the days I wanted to drive around in a roofless car. Which thanks to my wife, would probably be very few (I've owned several Cabbies... she never liked having the top down, so what's the point?)

FWIW, I'm Volkswagen's biggest fan, yet I'd never own a New Beetle convertible, a Beetle convertible, an Eos, or anything else that says "VW" and has a top that comes down.

oilhammer said:

I was thinking the exact same thing. If I was wanting a convertible, I'd have a spot in the garage that it sat on every day besides the days I wanted to drive around in a roofless car. Which thanks to my wife, would probably be very few (I've owned several Cabbies... she never liked having the top down, so what's the point?)
FWIW, I'm Volkswagen's biggest fan, yet I'd never own a New Beetle convertible, a Beetle convertible, an Eos, or anything else that says "VW" and has a top that comes down.

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So no Thing? Lol

No, probably not again... although they really are more my style, and the top is just a crude tent.

The Fit is an awesome car. Tons of room in a small package!

I think you were spoiled by the NB. When I had my 2000, it seemed everything was broken - suspension shot, door panels falling off, radio fried, no A/C...left over "smell" from PO. I DIDN'T CARE! That remains the most fun to drive car I've ever had. (the JSW surprisingly is my 2nd favorite!)

I'm sure your Honda days will be very easy. But, we'll be here waiting for you when you come back...

Diesl said:

So neither silicone nor paraffin/bees wax helped?

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The dealer did try silicone after I complained several times, but the window stuck again within two days. I kept a bottle of de-icer handy, and it really didn't work well, either. The windows were freezing up *inside* the door, not at the sill seal.

Diesl said:

It must be a bit more humid where you are than here in Chicago. I've had neither of the two problems so far (knock on wood). The intercooler problem could also be related to short distance driving?

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I'm in rural Central IL - out on the prairie. Don't have a garage, and couldn't leave the 'vert in the machine shed because of bird droppings, etc. Honestly, if the window seals didn't wrap over the glass, they would work fine (since the window wouldn't have to drop to open).

My commute is about 35 miles, so it's not a short-distance thing as far as the intercooler goes – the car gets thoroughly warmed up by the time I get to work. Like the windows, it's an ill-thought-out design that makes me wonder what kind of extended cold-weather testing they did on the car when in development.

Oilhammer said:

I was thinking the exact same thing. If I was wanting a convertible, I'd have a spot in the garage that it sat on every day besides the days I wanted to drive around in a roofless car.

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Unfortunately that wasn't an option for my budget! I suppose I could have used the F-250 as my winter DD, but at ~15mpg, it would have been pretty expensive. Buying another car for a winter beater really wasn't an option, either - the wife has her van, and I have two tractors and a half-dozen other small engines to maintain. Adding a beater (with attendant insurance, repairs and maintenance) wasn't an option.

What you all are missing is that the car *could* have worked out just fine as a year-round DD for me, had it not had so many designed-in defects, not to mention dropping hints of future repair expenses to come (whether burned out window motors from the freezing problem, or the stumble issue growing into something expensive to repair). Not to mention the horrid service experiences.
I thought pretty long and hard about this (two months at least), and decided I didn't want to take the chance / put up with the winter hassles again.

I still have my vintage Bugs, and love 'em. But for now, VW has lost me as a "new car" customer.

OK, sounds like I was lucky so far then (also parking outside, only slightly longer commute). I'll take this as a heads-up; good luck with the new car! You'll probably come out ahead in total cost of ownership!

stembridge,

I think that you would be happier with a MK3 or MK4!
I changed from a Powerstroke to an 03 wagon to a B4v and I love them both. Sold the 97 7.3 and picked up a 03 Tacoma 4cyl, not happy about it!

We just bought a 2015 Honda Fit EX L, with leather seats (and loving it) My wife first drove the Passat TDI and she did not like it one bit!

If Honda Fit ever came out with a variant that will be my next work wagon. There is a Fit Shuttle...

powerstrokeless said:

stembridge,

I think that you would be happier with a MK3 or MK4!

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I love the MK4s, but I can't carry 40 bales of hay in one and pull a trailer with another 110 bales! Thus the Powerstroke...

es

tdi90hp said:

sad stories. Just cant fathom why car companies cant fix such basic and well known issues that recur and recur. Curious why the Fit instead of the Mazda 3 Sport? The fit looks so small to me on the road compared to my Mazda...

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I did a Pugh Matrix to decide on the replacement car, and the Mazda 3 made it to the next-to-final cut. Optioned with similar features as the Fit EX and Scion tC, it was about $4K more expensive, and I was shooting for as close to break even as possible. I liked the driving dynamics and styling of the tC better, but it was almost $2K more, and the dealer offered $1500 less for my Beetle.

I included my Beetle in the matrix I did, and it came in below the Fit and tC (when the issues were factored in).

es

Well, sorry to hear that.. I live in Florida so if it freezes here it is very dangerous to drive around... Too many idiots that have not a clue how to drive on ice.

At some point I my wife will make me move back north and we will probably not bring the bug... Between the window freezing thing and it being white (snow plow might think it is a pile of snow) I will leave it in the south... But for now I am good.

I like the new Fit. I looked at one and thought it was great, except the interior materials are lacking. And I think the manual transmission is available only on the base version.

I'd echo others here with the convertible being seasonal. I love my Miata on the right days, but there honestly aren't a lot of them. And on longer drives an open car is just too tiring, IMO. And I strongly believe every car should be garaged if you want it to last.

I had lots of days, the VW had to stay outside, because the MB Diesel had that place rented for life... and the Rabbit was in the other stall. The new one just had to stay out, even at 30 below.

I have too many to keep them all covered anymore.

oilhammer said:

I have too many to keep them all covered anymore.

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and you know, how to keep them running and running!

I do my best. Lately I've been challenged, because some foreigner ass-clown in a semi backed into my wife while she was in our 2004 Passat sedan, so I had to replace the broken lock carrier, and had to have the bumper cover fixed and refinished. Then, last week when she got home from the grocery store, someone smacked the LF fender while she was inside.

Everytime I drive my bosses NA miata I want one more and more. So damn fun. If I were to pick one up I would get a hard top for winter though.

I don't think you want to drive a Miata in winger regardless of soft or hard top. First, it would be interesting in the snow. Second, it'll rust out in no time. Mine sits in the corner of the garage in winter.

My boss drove his slammed NA through winter on snow tires here in chicago didnt have any issues other than being a snow plow in the deeper stuff

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I like the new Fit. I looked at one and thought it was great, except the interior materials are lacking. And I think the manual transmission is available only on the base version.

...And I strongly believe every car should be garaged if you want it to last.

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The manual is available on the LX (base) and EX trims, but not the higher levels (which only add leather and then navigation). Although I'm a staunch manual guy, I ended up getting the CVT after learning the manual is geared very low (3,100 RPM at 65 MPH - a bit dron-ey for a long trip; the CVT is at 2,100 RPM at 65 MPH). That just gives me another good reason to finish restoring my vintage Bugs!

Agree about garaging a car, but my '00 New Beetle made it through 11 Central IL winters (salt belt) with virtually no rust issues other than the welds in the exhaust system finally rusting through after about ten years. It almost always sat outside. I hit the touchless car wash with undercarriage sprayers as often as possible during winter months, which I think helps a lot. When I sold the car, I got a premium price based on the condition it was in, despite it having high miles (219K).

es