2013 passat tdi owners I need some advice

jsm172 · Aug 1, 2016

So if you look at the buyback numbers, The 2013 passat for whatever reason is valued about 5k less than the 2014. Ever year model except the 2013 model has about a 2k depreciation between year to year. Why is this?

I am struggling with my decision on the buyback or the fix. Owe about 13k on the car and would get about 22k back. we have about 70k miles on it and we really like the car. I do my own maintenance and we are due for new tires here very soon but I was going to use the volkswagen dealer gift card for the tires. We bought this car planning to own it for a long time. We could go get a new Mazda 6 for about the same price as the buyback but it would be almost a 10mpg difference than our tdi. I am leaning toward the fix. Opinions?

laminated · Aug 1, 2016

I wonder the same,, there was very little difference between the 13 and 14;s.. when we looked.unless they counted sport accessories? or the onstar type system as a plus...

roni024 · Aug 1, 2016

They're probably trying to push owners toward a fix instead of buy-back for that particular year. Whatever the reason, be sure that it's not done for your well-being.

aliasbane · Aug 1, 2016

I have a 2013 TDI SEL, and still owe 17.7k on it with about 38000miles on it. I am rather peeved with this whole thing as this was my first car purchase ever and now now pretty screwed out of grands of money and will be carless if i go with the buyback, if I wait till the end I could get 5 years out of it and get the full 28k back on it. but thats another 2 years of maintenance and paying the car loan on it.

purduecrew · Aug 1, 2016

aliasbane said:
I have a 2013 TDI SEL, and still owe 17.7k on it with about 38000miles on it. I am rather peeved with this whole thing as this was my first car purchase ever and now now pretty screwed out of grands of money and will be carless if i go with the buyback, if I wait till the end I could get 5 years out of it and get the full 28k back on it. but thats another 2 years of maintenance and paying the car loan on it.

Keep it and take the restitution??? The car is still a good car. Why shouldn't you have to pay the payments and do the upkeep? I don't get it. You are getting to use the car? They aren't grenades.

aliasbane · Aug 1, 2016

purduecrew said:
Keep it and take the restitution??? The car is still a good car. Why shouldn't you have to pay the payments and do the upkeep? I don't get it. You are getting to use the car? They aren't grenades.

No I am well aware of that, but the fix is whats bothering.

The 2 big things in the buyback that bother me are the sales tax and lack of reimbursement for extended warranties through VW.

The fact all this info was released with out a specific fix bothers the hell out of me.

DanB36 · Aug 1, 2016

aliasbane said:
The 2 big things in the buyback that bother me are the sales tax and lack of reimbursement for extended warranties through VW.

Cancel the warranty, get a pro-rated refund. Second problem solved. As to the first, yeah, it's an issue.

The fact all this info was released with out a specific fix bothers the hell out of me.

So they should have waited another year (or whatever--nobody knows for sure, which is part of the issue) for the fix to be approved before offering the buyback?

aliasbane · Aug 1, 2016

DanB36 said:
Cancel the warranty, get a pro-rated refund. Second problem solved. As to the first, yeah, it's an issue.

So they should have waited another year (or whatever--nobody knows for sure, which is part of the issue) for the fix to be approved before offering the buyback?

canceling the extended warrenty would not net me much if anything. As they are prorated from the bought car mileage...

RandomGuy · Aug 1, 2016

purduecrew said:
Keep it and take the restitution??? The car is still a good car. Why shouldn't you have to pay the payments and do the upkeep? I don't get it. You are getting to use the car? They aren't grenades.

+1 to this - I've got a '14, but same general idea. As far as I'm concerned, VW is giving me ~$6.5K and an extended warranty to let them re-flash my ECU and possibly futz with my emissions equipment (which I'm pretty certain I'll "unfix" as soon as the warranty is up, which I'd planned to do before Dieselgate hit).

I bought the car expecting to put 200K+ miles on it, and nothing about that idea has changed.

BTW, on a related note - does anyone know with reasonable certainty what is/would be covered under the 4 year/48 month warranty associated with the fix? The consensus seems to be all emissions equipment, but I've seen differing views of the turbo and/or HPFP being covered.

grawk · Aug 1, 2016

turbo wouldn't, it's not emissions.

DanB36 · Aug 1, 2016

RandomGuy said:
BTW, on a related note - does anyone know with reasonable certainty what is/would be covered under the 4 year/48 month warranty associated with the fix?

It starts on page 25 of the FTC Consent Order. Turbo and HPFP are included. As to other things, it's a long list.

RandomGuy · Aug 1, 2016

DanB36 said:
It starts on page 25 of the FTC Consent Order. Turbo and HPFP are included. As to other things, it's a long list.

Thank you very much, sir.

purduecrew · Aug 1, 2016

DanB36 said:
It starts on page 25 of the FTC Consent Order. Turbo and HPFP are included. As to other things, it's a long list.

Is there a thank you button? That's twice now I've seen you clear up something with supporting evidence.

Rico567 · Aug 1, 2016

My opinion is that we're doing the buyback. We bought our '13 TDI
SEL in July of '13 for $29,198. The buyback figure for this car, generated by all available calculators (including the "official" one), is roughly $27,500. My present intention is to turn the car back in next Summer, because that's about the time it will go off the powertrain warranty. So I will have driven a brand new car for 4 years for less than $2K*, and that's not a good deal? If I turn it in on 12/31/18 and drive a virtually depreciation-proof car for 5 1/2 years, how is that not a good deal?

*The above being said, I'm well aware that others look at all this somewhat differently, to wit:

1. Some people have a strange way of looking at loans, in that the money they owe on it is somehow treated as a separate issue. I wouldn't know, because we paid cash. I can't see that anyone with a loan is being badly treated, since VW will cover their loan up to 30% ABOVE the settlement amount. But, whatever.

2. Then there is the issue of sales tax, which evidently falls under the rubric of "irreconcilable differences" among people on this forum. While I must pay sales tax in order to buy a car, I don't regard it as any concern of the legal action now taking place re: Dieselgate. What happens is controlled by the laws of the state in which one resides (in my case, Illinois). Should I get another 6.25% on top of my buyback amount, so that I can pay the IL tax? I happen to live in a "base tax" county, but if I lived in DuPage, should I get 9.5%, which is the sales tax there? Should a person in Delaware (where there is no sales tax) therefore get nothing more? Judge Breyer wouldn't even allow arguments on this, I think, and Judge Judy would make an impolite noise.

3. Some people want to act as if they don't have the option of just doing nothing and driving the car they already own, citing fears of the HPFP grenading, the AdBlue system crapping out, or etc. This is the world we would live in if there had never been a Dieselgate, and so these arguments are pretty moot.

GetMore · Aug 1, 2016

If the extended warranty is prorated then you are paying for what you used. You will get back the unused portion, so why complain. Sure, you don't plan on things breaking early in the warranty's life, but you can't buy a 75,000 through 120,000 mile warranty, and if something did go wrong you were covered.
Sales tax I agree with you on. I am assuming it was too complicated an issue for them to bother with, since you'd probably have to produce the receipt, and who has that?

My car has a greater than average depreciation as well. '10 to '11 is a decent jump, especially since the '10 cost more to buy.

I admit the loan really complicates the calculations. You could figure out how much of the loan VW will pay (30% of the value) and keep the car until that is what is left to maximize your return.
Other than that, your depreciation would then be the car payment minus whatever mileage over 1,042/month that you are driving.

If you like the car, wait until others have had their cars fixed, and see what the general consensus is. If people are happy with the result then take the restitution money and be happy with your car. (I would save that money, in case something breaks after that warranty is up. Do a delete and tune if the failures are bad enough, and thank VW as you do it, since they will have paid for it.)

RandomGuy · Aug 1, 2016

GetMore said:
If the extended warranty is prorated then you are paying for what you used. You will get back the unused portion, so why complain. Sure, you don't plan on things breaking early in the warranty's life, but you can't buy a 75,000 through 120,000 mile warranty, and if something did go wrong you were covered.
Sales tax I agree with you on. I am assuming it was too complicated an issue for them to bother with, since you'd probably have to produce the receipt, and who has that?

My car has a greater than average depreciation as well. '10 to '11 is a decent jump, especially since the '10 cost more to buy.

I admit the loan really complicates the calculations. You could figure out how much of the loan VW will pay (30% of the value) and keep the car until that is what is left to maximize your return.
Other than that, your depreciation would then be the car payment minus whatever mileage over 1,042/month that you are driving.

If you like the car, wait until others have had their cars fixed, and see what the general consensus is. If people are happy with the result then take the restitution money and be happy with your car. (I would save that money, in case something breaks after that warranty is up. Do a delete and tune if the failures are bad enough, and thank VW as you do it, since they will have paid for it.)

That's exactly how I'm looking at the restitution money. I'll take the fix and leave the car as-is until the 4/48-10/120 warranty expires. Then (or even earlier, depending on how clever tuners get and/or how the state of PA tests emissions) I'll get my car tuned and possibly do a DPF delete. In the meantime, the $6,500 will be sitting in an index fund for if/when repairs are needed down the road (although the only repair that really worries me is the HPFP, so may use $1,500 and upgrade to the CP3 at the timing belt service).

arikinthecity · Aug 2, 2016

2013 Passat se

I have a 2013 Passat se. Mileage is currently 31000 and calculator says I would get 25k or 6700 adjustment. Bought this new for $23k. I owe about 12k on it today with 1% apr loan. Only repair I had to make was the ad blue tank due to failed heater. That cost me about $500 which I will try to get reimbursed for if they extend the warranty in the future. It broke one day after the three year warranty ended.

I'm thinking of keeping the car and asking for the fix.i can't think of another car that will offer the same cabin space ,mileage , trunk capacity.

After reading all the posts I am confused about the fix option. If I keep the car do I get the money this year and then the fix when they provide it or do I get the money only after the fix is installed ?

grawk · Aug 2, 2016

arikinthecity said:
do I get the money only after the fix is installed ?

Yes, you get the money after the fix is installed. It's the incentive to get the work done.

autdi · Aug 2, 2016

grawk said:
Yes, you get the money after the fix is installed. It's the incentive to get the work done.

Plus the fix has to be approved first, otherwise, no cash for the fix, trade in only, or opt out and sue independently in May 2018.

aliasbane · Aug 2, 2016

Rico567 said:
My opinion is that we're doing the buyback. We bought our '13 TDI
SEL in July of '13 for $29,198. The buyback figure for this car, generated by all available calculators (including the "official" one), is roughly $27,500. My present intention is to turn the car back in next Summer, because that's about the time it will go off the powertrain warranty. So I will have driven a brand new car for 4 years for less than $2K*, and that's not a good deal? If I turn it in on 12/31/18 and drive a virtually depreciation-proof car for 5 1/2 years, how is that not a good deal?

*The above being said, I'm well aware that others look at all this somewhat differently, to wit:

1. Some people have a strange way of looking at loans, in that the money they owe on it is somehow treated as a separate issue. I wouldn't know, because we paid cash. I can't see that anyone with a loan is being badly treated, since VW will cover their loan up to 30% ABOVE the settlement amount. But, whatever.

2. Then there is the issue of sales tax, which evidently falls under the rubric of "irreconcilable differences" among people on this forum. While I must pay sales tax in order to buy a car, I don't regard it as any concern of the legal action now taking place re: Dieselgate. What happens is controlled by the laws of the state in which one resides (in my case, Illinois). Should I get another 6.25% on top of my buyback amount, so that I can pay the IL tax? I happen to live in a "base tax" county, but if I lived in DuPage, should I get 9.5%, which is the sales tax there? Should a person in Delaware (where there is no sales tax) therefore get nothing more? Judge Breyer wouldn't even allow arguments on this, I think, and Judge Judy would make an impolite noise.

3. Some people want to act as if they don't have the option of just doing nothing and driving the car they already own, citing fears of the HPFP grenading, the AdBlue system crapping out, or etc. This is the world we would live in if there had never been a Dieselgate, and so these arguments are pretty moot.

How the hell did you get the car for like $29k?

clendaniel · Aug 2, 2016

Not sure why the difference...definitely odd.

In our case we've got a '13 Passat TDI SEL w/ 117k. Right now it's got CEL for a failed DEF heater and the impending 120k 'big' service. Since the car has an accident history (apparently black Passats are invisible in our area as both myself and my wife have been rear ended in it) and is high-ish mileage we'd need to drive it into the ground if we kept it. We owe <7k on it so should walk with a check for 11-12k plus I've been able to charge >100k worth of mileage to my corp so we don't feel it owes us anything....we're going to take the buyback and walk away happy.

--Ian

Rico567 · Aug 2, 2016

aliasbane said:
How the hell did you get the car for like $29k?

I called USAA (one of my banks, that I knew offered a car buying service. I told them what I wanted to buy, and I printed a coupon. It was to a dealer I had no intention of using, because they are in a high sales tax county here in IL (while we live in a base tax county), So I just e-mailed five VW dealers and said, in effect, "Match USAA if you want to sell the car.')
Two days later I had a call from Suntrup in St. Louis, I told him the color we wanted and they beat USAA's number. Sticker was around $34K, so based on what I saw in a thread on this forum of what people said they'd paid for the same car I bought it.
Easiest car purchase I can ever remember, and with the buyback that's going on, the cheapest ride we'll ever own.

solBLACK · Aug 2, 2016

Rico567 said:
I called USAA (one of my banks, that I knew offered a car buying service. I told them what I wanted to buy, and I printed a coupon. It was to a dealer I had no intention of using, because they are in a high sales tax county here in IL (while we live in a base tax county), So I just e-mailed five VW dealers and said, in effect, "Match USAA if you want to sell the car.')
Two days later I had a call from Suntrup in St. Louis, I told him the color we wanted and they beat USAA's number. Sticker was around $34K, so based on what I saw in a thread on this forum of what people said they'd paid for the same car I bought it.
Easiest car purchase I can ever remember, and with the buyback that's going on, the cheapest ride we'll ever own.

That's pretty awesome. I tried calling a few VW dealers around my area and no one was willing to budge too far from MSRP on my '15 Golf SE. Guess I fell into the area where they were in really high demand at the time

.

Bisoned · Aug 2, 2016

jsm172 said:
So if you look at the buyback numbers, The 2013 passat for whatever reason is valued about 5k less than the 2014. Ever year model except the 2013 model has about a 2k depreciation between year to year. Why is this?
I am struggling with my decision on the buyback or the fix. Owe about 13k on the car and would get about 22k back. we have about 70k miles on it and we really like the car. I do my own maintenance and we are due for new tires here very soon but I was going to use the volkswagen dealer gift card for the tires. We bought this car planning to own it for a long time. We could go get a new Mazda 6 for about the same price as the buyback but it would be almost a 10mpg difference than our tdi. I am leaning toward the fix. Opinions?

What is very interesting is the SEL's don't have the same hit.... Not that I'm complaining, mind you....

dropnosky · Aug 2, 2016

jsm172 said:
So if you look at the buyback numbers, The 2013 passat for whatever reason is valued about 5k less than the 2014. Ever year model except the 2013 model has about a 2k depreciation between year to year. Why is this?
I am struggling with my decision on the buyback or the fix. Owe about 13k on the car and would get about 22k back. we have about 70k miles on it and we really like the car. I do my own maintenance and we are due for new tires here very soon but I was going to use the volkswagen dealer gift card for the tires. We bought this car planning to own it for a long time. We could go get a new Mazda 6 for about the same price as the buyback but it would be almost a 10mpg difference than our tdi. I am leaning toward the fix. Opinions?

I am in the same boat with a 2012. If it were bought back i would have plenty of cash to buy a perfectly reasonable and reliable replacement car just from the extra, maybe an alh.

However it is hard to beat the comfort qualities of the NMS passat design, even if you remove the drivetrain as a consideration, so in that case i can take the repair payment and pay down my loan by 2 3rds of whats remaining. (probably would just pay it off completely and be done with it at that time, and own free and clear)

It will be a lot easier to make this decision with some test examples made public.

Another option i was looking at was the gas variant of the same car if i went with a buyback. If i took the buyback i could just about buy a 2012 passat gas with about 2 grand extra thrown in on top.

The decision really comes down to if i want to leave diesel or not. Since i have owned many many diesels its like asking how much to sell your kid.

arikinthecity · Aug 2, 2016

I just don't understand wheree it is indicated that the fix option is only paid out when it is approved. I got a different vibe from the court documents. Can anyone provide a page with that detail?

Mark SF · Aug 2, 2016

dropnosky said:
However it is hard to beat the comfort qualities of the NMS passat design,

That's what I thought until I drove other cars. I just leased a Volvo V60. Refinement is better in all respects. The Passat was fairly quiet on good surfaces, but very loud on rough ones, made worse by rattling and buzzing from the dash.

The V60 gets louder on the rough surfaces, but not nearly as much.

The Passat has lots of legroom in the front for tall drivers, but this is ruined by lack of reach on the steering column, so it feels too far away. Also, the Passat's steering wheel is offset to the right.

The driving position in the V60 is a study in everything that's wrong with the Passat's. It's heaven by comparison.

Another comparison : initial quality. The Passat came with the wheel not straight, also pulling to the right, numerous rattles and buzzes from the interior, a heater that occasional refuses to respond to commands, and a dashboard dimmer switch that sticks.

I fixed the worst rattle by stuffing foam weatherstripping between the rear shelf and window.

In the Volvo, everything works. No rattles, just silence. Wheel perfectly straight, drives laser straight on the highway. If Volvo can do it, why can't VW?

Really, I'm done with VW. The Passat is a good car ruined by penny-pinching, and not particularly well put together. To get to the price point, they just went too far with the cost cutting.

DanB36 · Aug 2, 2016

arikinthecity said:
I just don't understand wheree it is indicated that the fix option is only paid out when it is approved.

Not when it's approved, when the fix is done on your car (which is necessarily after it's approved). See the FTC Consent Order, page 23:

Upon submission of an Eligible Owner’s or Eligible Lessee’s complete and valid claim application pursuant to Section XIII and completion of an Approved Emissions Modification by a Volkswagen Dealer (or other entity authorized by Defendant), Defendant shall pay the amounts required by Subsections B through E.

arikinthecity · Aug 3, 2016

DanB36 said:
Not when it's approved, when the fix is done on your car (which is necessarily after it's approved). See the FTC Consent Order, page 23:

Dan
Thanks for the details. I guess I was dazed and confused from the articles by the press and hoping to get my $6k in a few months. This could drag on for 2 years. Still makes sense to keep the car and decide before the deadline when an owner adds very low miles to the car and has a low interest loan. Only risk is an accident or out of warranty repair.

DanB36 · Aug 3, 2016

Indeed. In the best (and most likely case), you get to drive the car for two years with no depreciation, as long as you drive under 12k miles/year. If you drive more than that, it will depreciate, but still less than anything else (because of the 1042 free miles per month).

As to an accident, the real risk is of a total loss that leaves the car unable to drive at all. Even in that case, I'd think you could take the insurance money minus the salvage, spend the bare minimum necessary to make the car move under its own power, and come out ahead (since the buyback doesn't depend on the car's condition). I also expect we're going to see used TDI prices rise to near-buyback levels before long, which should result in insurance payouts increasing correspondingly.

As to a mechanical failure, that's a definite concern--it happened to my parents a couple of weeks ago and cost them $6k for a new HPFP and related stuff. I don't really know of a way to mitigate that, other than just not driving at all.

2013 passat tdi owners I need some advice

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